A friend of mine is into Burning Man, Element 11, and related festivals. Burning Man takes place in Nevada each year. E11 takes place in Utah. According to Wiki, "Burning Man began as a bonfire ritual on the summer solstice." It's a bohemian arts-oriented festival. It also incorporates "non-demoninational ritual and spiritual practices."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Man#The_Temple

Has the Mormon church ever had anything to say about it? What is the sentiment in Utah over the yearly E11 festival? Do you enjoy these festivals?

Don't do crowds unless there is a football (world football) being kicked around.

Footie works for me. I don't get the appeal of these festivals, but for my friend, they appear to be big social events where she can repeatedly get together with other like minded friends.

I was curious about how these festivals, especially E11, are viewed among Mormons/Utahns since they contain pagan elements.

In New Mexico, the Burning Man is called the Zozobra. We have local festivals for him, too. In New World Spanish, it is pronounced "so-SO-bra." In Castilian Spanish, "tho-THO-bra."

I was born and grew up in Santa Fe. My Dad absolutely hated crowds like when the Fiesta was going on.

We never were in town for Zozobra, except one year my sibs and I made a fuss.

Mom and Dad packed us up, drove up Hyde Park Road (way before all the mini mansions were built) found a spot that looked out towards Ft Marcy Park where Zozobra was burnt.

We waited and waited until it was dark enough and the celebration was starting.

Zozobra was lit and from where we were at it looked like a wooden match was struck, lasted awhile and went out. We were too far away to get impressed by the event.

Never went to the event again,.... we'd go to Chama or Southern Colorado and go fishing before school started again in the fall.

kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't do crowds unless there is a football (world
> football) being kicked around.

Soccer is incredibly boring and probably the most overrated game in human history. That is why in most of the places it is played it is often accompanied by rioting and violence, and the groups of fans have to be separated.

Association football is only one brand of football. It is a public school game which came out of private schools such Charterhouse and Uppingham, but reinvented itself to be the same as the football played in the Middle Ages (it isn't — old working class football used to be a game in which the ball was carried and thrown, not just kicked and headbutted)

A few of the other brands of football:

American football
Association football
Australian (rules) football
Canadian football
Eton football (two flavours)
Gaelic football
Lelo burti
Marn grook
Rugby football (two flavours - league and union)
Swedish football

I've never seen marn grook or lelo burti, but other than that association football is the least entertaining of any of these. In many games no one ever scores and yet that is supposed to be exciting.

Some points of view are just not worth a rrsponse.

Yep.

I hope your trip went nicely.

Very well, but then I am postimng at 4.04 am. The consequences ot travelling back seven hours.

I loved burning man but hated the dust or ash or whatever it was floating around.

A must experience bucket list trip.

WONDERING: What % of Burning Man attendees were nude?

Were the nude folks scattered or congregated?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2023 02:50AM by GNPE.

Not many. The nude usually had body paint and of course dust covered them.

It is held on a baron dry lake bottom. There are constant wind storms and blowing dust. My backpack I took still sheds dust. It has been washed and vacuumed many times. I went on a senior excursion for one day. When we left the bus had an inch or two of dust inside and 3-4 inches outside.

But there is constantly things happening. It is huge and not close crowds of people together most of the time.

The art sculptures were amazing. We weren’t there for the last day so when the burning is done there are probably crowds. Mostly people riding carts, bikes, or mobile objects going every which way.

Also you can only buy coffee or ice. All food and other items are trade only. So you need to trade things for what you don’t have.

What is mind blowing is they build the city from scratch and a week later it is dismantled, cleaned and there is no trace it was even there. For miles they rake and make sure no trash or trace of anything remains.

I wouldn’t go back, my lungs couldn’t handle it.

I took battery chargers, matches, and kind bars to trade for food.

wondering Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not many. >

lol

GNPE always wonders what percentage of people go around nude... both to check out other nudists and equally to gauge whether any attendees would care, or even notice them going around naked at America's most wild and organic happy free people festival (not counting Rainbow Gatherings every summer, since the late 60's, July 1-7, in a national forest somewhere in the U.S.A. ... where GNPE couldn't count all the actual naked/ 1/2 naked people. In fact, they may even run around naked themself, like a baby in the yard or around the house). Just sayin'-

> Also you can only buy coffee or ice. > Like Mormons
Capitalists!

> I took battery chargers, matches, and kind bars to
> trade for food.

Sounds like you ate pretty well! Always bring the best things to trade and always have abundance and fun!

Old lake bed dust is nasty. It’s highly alkaline.

These are "gatherings"
Like Love-Ins, perhaps
People go To Be Together

THE EXCITEMENT! The wonder. The participation!
There Are No Spectators - all are participants/ spectating

Mormonism FORCES you to be together
All rituals are removed, by Mormon

There's NOTHING exciting, spontaneous or beautiful~
No Fires, No food, No glitter, No skin... NO NOTHING!

Why would anyone go? Not because they want to but because they Have To!

It's all about being around the Most Incredible, Most Beautiful, Most Fun... Talent, Music, Art, Sculpture and Happenings

Anyone say PARTY?

The LDSc wouldn't have anything to say about that
It's all about robots. WORK. Free work, FOR FREE! Now!!

Don't forget the Burning Man is a tribute to human sacrifice. Watch the Wicker Man (original version.)

Not always human. They burned an alien (et variety) one year

> Don't forget the Burning Man is a tribute to human
> sacrifice. Watch the Wicker Man (original
> version.)

Why does that matter? Christmas is a tribute to the killing of a god at the bacchanalia.

It’s not even true.

Well, there's that too.

Well, then, my tax returns deserve celebration!!

..."getting down" with the common folk.

I was looking at a video of the storm's aftermath and saw you and your date in the background. You both looked presentable although it was a pity your yellow Borat swimsuit was covered in mud. Next year, perhaps?

Assuming, of course, that Marianne is not too busy with the presidential campaign to make the trip.

I have a friend in London who flys over here just to do Burning Man. He showed me the top hat he wears. It was all covered in alkaline dirt.

Burning Man is playing in the dirt. What happens at Burning Man stays at Burning Man.

Massive rainstorms have made the playa un-driveable: nobody can get in or out. Burners have been told to "shelter in a warm place." ration food and water. People with hard-side RVs are encouraged to take in tent campers. Reports of hypothermia. And more torrential rain expected today (Sunday) 09/03.

73,000 is a bit more than Iowa City, IA.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/there-is-no-way-no-after-storm-floods/

burning man got stuck in the mud this year.

So says Mike Lee

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2023/09/04/sen-mike-lee-says-burning-man/

"Sen. Mike Lee suggested the flooding that has trapped thousands of Burning Man attendees in the Nevada desert was “God’s judgment” for engaging in lewd and sexually charged events at the festival.

Ignoring the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lee cited the “road to Damascus” tale from the Bible, in which Paul the Apostle converted to Christianity after a bright light blinded him amid his persecution of Christians. Lee mused that some attendees may be so regretful for taking part in Burning Man that they may turn to religion for solace."

Mike Lee is a lunatic.

What was God's judgement against the Willie and Martin Handcart Companies?

The 104 wagons carrying the Martin Company arrived in Salt Lake City on November 30; at least 145 members of the company had died during the journey. Many of the survivors had to have fingers, toes, or limbs amputated due to severe frostbite.

Why doesn't the church contact Lee to reign in his comments?

The next mudslide, tornado, earthquake or fire will find non-Utahns passing judgment about those evil Mormons and good riddance.

Good point.

Ghawd was trying to humble Brigham Young.

It didn't work.

I'd do Burning Man in a Conestoga wagon in period pioneer dress. With full beard of course. Maybe get several women to pose as wives, if other burners would get the joke.

That setup would weather a monsoon storm nicely. I do worry about the 70,000 people stranded on the playa. It's a bigger suckfest than GC.

I think there was a mock Mormon Temple one year and exmos in temple clothes.

Does anyone else remember this? Maybe 10 years ago?

It’s too wet to burn this year.

Burning Man appears to be a post-modern take on paganism, but without human sacrifice. I wonder what the climate crowd make of all the burning?

The amount of burning at the end of burning man is negligible compared to the amount of gasoline it took to get everybody there and home again. Plus burning wood doesn’t add “fossil carbon” to the atmosphere, it is returning carbon that was recently removed from the atmosphere.

There must be bentonite in the area. That stuff is miserably slippery when wet.

And caffeind and Rubicon sound jealous. ;)

ExMo Corb Lund:
https://youtu.be/pDY6bWT5oTM?si=7E3ZJOlw6EmMDMVr

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The amount of burning at the end of burning man is
> negligible compared to the amount of gasoline it
> took to get everybody there and home again. Plus
> burning wood doesn’t add “fossil carbon” to
> the atmosphere, it is returning carbon that was
> recently removed from the atmosphere.

The carbon fascists in my area want to burn wood stoves, but I take your point about the gasoline.

It does beg the question of how all this excess "fossil" carbon is supposed to be removed from the atmosphere if vegetation takes time to remove it. Plankton?

The fact that it takes vegetation (and, BTW, plankton counts as vegetation) time to remove carbon is precisely the problem. We are adding fossil carbon far faster than vegetation can remove it, hence the rising levels. The time difference is centuries, not years. Given enough time, the carbon balance will restabilize. Humans just tend to not like to operate on timescales of "centuries". We think being too hot this afternoon is the problem.

Interestingly, mountain ranges tend to absorb CO2 and turn it into carbonate rock. Again, the trouble is the time scale, plus it is hard to create an extra mountain range when the carbon levels get too high.

Lastly, it is not even that CO2 levels are too high. They have been higher in the past. The problem is the speed with which they have gotten this high. We have had a Goldilocks climate for agriculture for about the last 8,000 years give or take. We are on track to double the earth's CO2 level from what it was 8,000 years ago. That will likely do something to the climate, and it is not likely to be good (from our perspective).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2023 11:14AM by Brother Of Jerry.

> The carbon fascists in my area want to burn wood
> stoves. . .

"Carbon fascists?" What a silly thing to say.

They want to "burn wood stoves?" Won't that just release more carbon into the atmosphere?

Thankfully, the carbon fascists don't want to burn metal stoves. At least not yet.

[Que ominous music.}

Who makes stoves out of wood?

I think Witnal meant to say "ban wood stoves". That at least makes sense.

Trouble is it is not the carbon fascists. It is the air pollution fascists that want to ban wood-burning stoves. True, these are mostly the same people, but the problem with wood burning stoves is that they produce prodigious amounts of fine particulate matter. They in fact are banned in the SL Valley during winter inversions. And the county has detectors that are quite good at spotting fireplace and wood stove smoke coming out of chimneys. The fine is a stiff one.

The amount of CO2 a wood burning stove produces is incidental. Natural gas furnaces produce CO2 in comparable quantities, but produce much less particulate matter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2023 03:23PM by Brother Of Jerry.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Witnal meant to say "ban wood stoves".
> That at least makes sense.

Yes. My point was that the hysteria about "carbon fascists" seems slightly more comprehensible coming from someone who can't distinguish between "burn" and "ban."

Both evince an impressive degree of cluelessness.

Jealous of what? Being stuck in the mud?

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jealous of what? Being stuck in the mud?

If you drive a Rubicon with a decent lift and 35-inch tires with a good cleat, then it would be a fun place to wheel. Meet me with my Badlands Sasquatch?

I do love the truly remote places, social isolate that I am. Back during the Covid scare, I excelled anti-social distancing. Not too many remote places left, especially in the Northeast, save the Maine North Woods, northern Quebec and Labrador. 73,000 people is too big a crowd for me.

Is it named Sasquatch for its carbon footprint?

It is held in a dry lake bed. Since it is raining 75k people are stranded in a lake filling with water.

Per chance my nephew?