We all know that every single Mormon is anticipating the call to go back to Missouri, or will by the end of the day. We all know that it will be the hot topic for F & T meetings tomorrow. And we all know that anybody who says these may not be the actual Last Days will be suddenly uninvited to all the backyard barbecues.

Here's my prediction: there will be large scale destruction in Israel. Lots of people will die. And Jesus will not show up.

Sorry to disappoint everybody.

Would it force ghawd's hand if two of the more useless apostles were flown to Israel, thrown out of the plane to splat on a street, and then left to lie there for three days?

I was (regrettably) trying to be snarky about Chapter 11 of the Book of Revelation...  And ghawd knows, there's no shortage of mormon men willing to serve as prophets, seers, and revelators, aka apostles.


3  And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4  These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5  And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6  These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7  And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9  And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Just adding that in Mormon doctrine the two witnesses are apostles.

I'm not sure if either of the apostles will be Lamanites (sometimes I kill myself!).

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just adding that in Mormon
> doctrine the two witnesses
> are apostles.
>


I want to make it clear that I have no problem with any combination of two of the book of mormon Three Nephites taking on the roles.  I think there's a good chance that a really interesting CV is useful in the CK...  

Business cards might be important as well.

I suppose this could happen but I'm having a difficult time imagining any of the current crop of Mormon apostles clothed in sackcloth.

That's why I suggested Lamanites.

Clearly the current prophets, seers, and revelators are irreplaceable. So what is the Q15 to do if not add a couple of more expendable apostles who will fulfill the prophecies at minimal cost?

I was told it was two "prophets", which in the Mormon mind meant anybody who held the Priesthood which included missionaries which meant that all of us sitting in Deacon's Quorum in 1965 were led to believe that we personally could be the Chosen Two in six years and so we all prayed extra hard that night. Believe me, this idea played a major part in our life plans. Because we all knew that Gog and Magog were the Soviet Union and the Beatles were the sure sign of Satan's manifestation.

I believe the restriction to apostles thing happened when the apostles realized they needed to make darn sure the general membership didn't start getting all uppity and above their station.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2023 07:58PM by slskipper.

The only ordained "prophets" in Mormonism are the Q12 and the FP. And apostles are also "special witnesses." Neither of those titles apply to anyone outside the 15.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2023 07:50PM by Lot's Wife.

As always, Bruce R. McConkout is ever helpful. In The Millennial Messiah (pp. 390-92), he reminds us that these two super-awesome invincible mormon prophets rant away in Jerusalem for 3½ years, and only through their presence are the evil powers bent on destruction kept at bay.

"Their ministry will take place after the latter-day temple has been built in Old Jerusalem, after some of the Jews who dwell there have been converted, and just before Armageddon… How long will they minister in Jerusalem and the Holy Land? For three and a half years… Who will these witnesses be? We do not know, except that they will be followers of Joseph Smith; they will hold the holy Melchizedek Priesthood; they will be members of The Church of [blah blah]. It is reasonable to suppose… that they will be two members of the Council of the Twelve or of the First Presidency."

"It will be with them as it was with Elijah, who both called down fire from heaven to consume his enemies and sealed the heavens that there was neither dew nor rain for three and a half years. And it will be with them as it was with Moses, who turned the rivers and waters of Egypt into blood and who smote the Egyptians with many plagues."

[Bruce can barely contain his excitement at the prospect of such gruesome horror. His enthusiasm practically leaps off the page.]

I have a vague and hence unreliable memory that Mormon Doctrine said explicitly that the two witnesses would be apostles. If that recollection is correct, McConkie may have softened somewhat by the time when he wrote Millennial Messiah in the 1980s(?).

Thanks for the information.

Do we have to walk to Missouri? When I was young, a friend of my older sister always had an extra pair of new shoes in her closet for the walk to Missouri.

I was just wondering, because I have a nearly full tank of gas.

Drive, beat the crowds. Make a hotel reservation, why camp?

I just read an article about a guy who booked a luxury Airbnb for a weekend, paid for the weekend, and now, 17 months later, the owner still hasn't been able to get him ousted!!  But then, the renter's rating has gone into the toilet

So, find yourself a place that really looks nice and settle in!

> So, find yourself a place that really looks nice
> and settle in!

I did that, but you called the police.

. . . It wasn't that nice anyway.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
---------------------------------
>
> ... It wasn't that nice anyway.


You and your artsy-fartsy ways...

The reviews are 65/35 positive!

Yet strangely, all but one of the positive reviews were identical. . .

Tell me you fought just as hard to protect your virginity.

LW's first several reviews were all 1-2 stars, but improved to near 5-star accolades after a few dozen.

Australia and LW have a something in common, everybody knows where it is and..

I am from Missouri and was living in Utah at the time.
we came back in '84 for my mom's funeral. We visited a local branch and told the BP we were looking for a place to live. He told us not to bother because the "brethren" had said for no more Utah mormons to move to Missouri. Apparently a large family from Utah (Heber/Wallsburg?) had moved to the Monet area and told locals that the mormons were moving back to claim what was rightly theirs. They were waiting for Mo to be swept so clean that not even a yellow dog would wag its tail, whatever that means. I told the BP that I had family in Mo and that we were going to move there anyway. We moved to Missouri in '94 and have been here ever since.

slskipper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We all know that every single Mormon is
> anticipating the call to go back to Missouri, or
> will by the end of the day. We all know that it
> will be the hot topic for F & T meetings tomorrow.
> And we all know that anybody who says these may
> not be the actual Last Days will be suddenly
> uninvited to all the backyard barbecues.
>
> Here's my prediction: there will be large scale
> destruction in Israel. Lots of people will die.
> And Jesus will not show up.

no show is quite Typical of those who really do not exit
>
> Sorry to disappoint everybody
.it is mythical Jesus who is the real disappointment

There is no silver lining to this and I don't find it funny. I've never understood why anyone wants to live in that part of the world with this going on, and I've met many Arabs and Israelis who've left because of this. It is a disaster for everyone except extremists.

The only thing that can be said about it is that it is part of a long ongoing situation. Is the much touted "Iron Dome" even working?

You should feel free to Google the question.

"I don't find it funny."

You don't think Hamas giggle like school boys when they launch those rockets? They need either a safer hobby or adult supervision.

Living under existential threat may not be for you, but it is for some people. I prefer the thrill of quiet desperation.

I find this attack by such a mismatched opponent bizarre. It's practically suicidal. Maybe the idea is to provoke a heavy handed response. They could be baiting Netanyahu into flattening Gaza in order to draw Israel into a fight against Arab countries with real firepower. That's the risk I see if it's not business as usual.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2023 05:16AM by bradley.