not used for "good works" (or even building new Temples) but "Instead, the church allegedly hid the fact that some if not all donations are permanently invested in accounts never used for charitable work. That includes tithes; regular donations amounting to 10% of a person’s income expected from members of the church. The money instead has gone to Ensign Peak Advisors, a nonprofit created in 1997 that has grown to over $100 billion in value, the lawsuit alleges."

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/mormon-church-sued-again-for-investing-donations-from-lds-members.html?&qsearchterm=Mormon%20sue

The piece carries an Associate Press icon.

The more mainstream news coverage this practice gets, the better.

I agree the more coverage this gets, the more people realize the LDS church is a business hoarding money.

Also see thread about this:

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2495661

I don't expect this suit to go anywhere for reasons in the other thread.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree the more coverage this gets, the more
> people realize the LDS church is a business
> hoarding money.
>

> I don't expect this suit to go anywhere for
> reasons in the other thread.


As long as donations are 'free will' offerings, AND ChurchCo is a hierarchal religion/church, they're 99% immune.

GNPE Wrote:
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> As long as donations are 'free will' offerings,
> AND ChurchCo is a hierarchal religion/church,
> they're 99% immune.

Hopefully, some current or ex members can shed some light, explaining the difference between the Mormon Church's definition of 'free will' and how non-mos define that concept.

Outsiders have no idea of the pressure that is exerted on members to tithe regularly + extras, as in you won't be in "good standing" or will lose "privileges" if you don't pony up regularly and to the correct percentage, plus all the extras they "need" your $$$ for over and above what they consider the bare minimum (which is your 10+ %).

There is no free will in the Mormon Church when it comes to tithing. (Or much of anything else?)

Humans tend to think that their experience is the universal one and that includes their definitions of certain concepts. To a casual outside observer who isn't under pressure from their faith group (if they have one) to tithe, the phraseology used (free will offering) is misleading (and very likely intended to be so to member and outsider alike).

It's not free will if they make you do it. If you feel you have no choice because the welfare of your family members and yourself is at stake.

For people who have never been involved in a controlling group like Mormons it escapes their awareness that language and terminology are deliberately used to reinforce certain concepts and expectations.

Maybe somebody could write up an interesting column somewhere about that. Frequently.

>For people who have never been involved in a controlling group like Mormons it escapes their awareness that language and terminology are deliberately used to reinforce certain concepts and expectations.

Thanks for pointing that out. That is exactly what they are doing when they refer to resigning one's LDS membership as "requesting name removal".

Resigning is a perfectly well known, common English word, and everyone has a pretty good idea of what it means. LDS Inc also knows what it means. When one sends in a "request for name removal" (the terminology used in the Church Handbook of Instructions, and among rank and file members (have you heard that Bro Johnson requested name removal? I wonder what he did to lose the Spirit™ that badly?)) LDS Inc processes that "request" exactly as if it were phrased as a resignation.

The deliberate misdirection of course is that LDS Inc hates hates hates taking orders from members. They give orders, they don't take them. Name Removal is something they do and you request them to do. The implication is that they will let you know if they will remove your name.

The reality is that it is the one and only time during your membership that you get to give them an order (I resign) and they have to comply, or you can haul their pasty little ass into court and make them comply. That really frosts their cornflakes.

So they simply refuse to use the standard English terminology, "resignation". As Nightingale so eloquently put it, "language and terminology are deliberately used to reinforce certain concepts and expectations."


And yeah, "free will offering." As if "it'd be a shame if you couldn't go to your child's wedding" isn't coercion.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... "language and terminology are
> deliberately used to reinforce certain concepts
> and expectations."

To be more exact, precise and clear (etc!), I should have said "...are deliberately CHOSEN to reinforce certain concepts...".

They're not random words, as we all know. It's easy to perform a snow job on outsiders because they don't "hear" the code. Humans, of course, interpret language as it's familiar to them. 'Donation' means freely giving by one's own choice. Even tithing can be in that category for most non-mos as tithing is not mandatory for a large percentage of churchgoing folks. It's called tithing and the 10% concept is known but in the mainstream world it is by no means mandatory, as it basically is in Mormonism because they actually check up on a member's donating history. If you're going to lose 'blessings' or any privilege or position in the church on the basis of your tithing choices then it's hardly voluntary is it.

The sad thing is that most members continue to follow the church leaders' views on tithing (plus other "offerings") because of the negative effects failure to do so has one one's status and position etc in the church. The bishop (aka your next door neighbour) knows how much you "donate" every month and follows along with the church's position that bishops must ensure that every member gives an "honest tithe" every month. One's own needs and preferences come second, or last even, in the prophets' views.

It's expensive, adhering to Mormon doctrine. It causes hardship and deprivation in many families.

But by the way, make sure you have lots and lots of children too. Gotta keep the numbers of future tithe payers as high as possible no matter how much the associated expenses negatively impact on Mormon families.

Maybe one day the prophet's bubble will burst. Maybe the whole Mormon thing will end up being completely unsustainable on a wide scale.

Maybe a lot of today's mo kids will grow up and end up saying what the heck is this all about? Tithing, doctrines, demands, controversies, inequities, et al.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2023 02:56PM by Nightingale.

I purposely used that phrase as a contrast with other churches & orgs such as Habitat & the Red Cross & Heifer, etc.

Mormonism Always has an agenda- quid pro quo