Some of if you may find this interesting, i know i did. This was recorded in a lodge in Arizona. https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/freemasonrys-secret-rituals-exposed/

A lot of the similarities between freemasonic rituals and mormon rituals have been discussed for years ad nauseam, such as handshakes, penalties, aprons, order of prayer, five points of fellowship etc. but one thing that struck me when watching this is how similar the vernacular is.

The oath and penalties were lovely. Having one's body severed in twain sounds serious. Many parts of this gave me the creeps. I can't figure out if they're larping or if they believe there is some spiritual significance to this. Raising someone from the dead seems like they're playing savior. Jesus saves us from death. I remember listening to guy on youtube who was saying the reason the LDS temple stuff is masonic is because of some ancient and sacred practices that the mason and mormons picked up on, a universal source of truth rather than just copying. I'll see if I can find it again. It seemed a little apologist to me.

Here it is.
https://youtu.be/9IX1wb9bJ5k

I've seen a lot of the apologists try and make sense of the similarities, cognitive dissonance has a stranglehold on all of us, at least to some degree.

Now that my blinders are off it seems pretty clear to me that the LDS temple rituals is nothing more than a plagiarized version of the Masonic rituals, they even have three distinct knocks at the door.

The opening few minutes of this video are interesting. The interviewee says early church members had no problem with the similarities between Masonic rites and the LDS endowment but fails to note the reason why: early church leaders and members said that Joseph smith taught them that Mormons had the true masonry and that masonry had been handed down from the builders of Solomon’s temple but had lost some of its truths and he was restoring those truths. The problem with that claim, of course, is that masonry began in 14th century AD Europe not 900BC Jerusalem.

Then he points out that Joseph smith’s revelations were in response to events and he uses the book of Abraham as an example. The current working theory on the church website regarding the book of Abraham which we now know was just a 160BC funeral text and had nothing to do with what appears in the book of Abraham is that it acted as a catalyst for pure revelation and it really wasn’t a translation. It was a good vibe from the funeral text that spurred his revelatory juices.

So this video in the opening few minutes claims that masonry acted as a catalyst for revelation which resulted in Joseph smiths endowment ceremony. Ignore all the similarities between the LDS temple and the Masonic rite.
That’s just catalyst stuff for revelation.

Is revelators block a problem? Here's some Egyptian-looking stuff, carry on... At about 4 mins the man says Joseph Smith received his endowment in the same spot he became a master mason in 2 months prior. Imagine a modern LDS temple doing double duty for endowments and the Hiram Abiff stuff. Joseph's brother was named Hyrum. I wonder if that is a Mason thing? So I guess Joseph's endowment was a grown up version of what the lodge was doing. It sounds like things got a little testy between the apron brotherhoods.

Yes indeed.

They sort of gathered a hodgepodge of things they happened to notice around them. JS started wondering about the mounds and origins of Native Americans because people were starting to study such things. Then Egyptology was becoming a thing and surprise, JS manages to work it in too. They saw the secret club working with Masons, and surprise, they got the temple ritual.

JS saw a pile of rocks and declared it was Adam's alter. He found some bones and created the Zelph story.

The church still has their antennas out to see what sticks to the wall and what doesn't.

If enough people believe something it must be true.

The more clarity gained in seeing Joe was making it all up as he went along and using any and every opportunity to incorporate unrelated experiences to his advantage in his efforts to further build his cult.

This is evident in a number of ways, (e.g. his early encounters with magic-the founding of the gold plates, acquiring Egyptian papyri from a traveling salesman-voila! the Book of Abraham, masonry-temple ceremony). A study of the details of the societal/religious milieu in upstate NY during the early days of his activities, demonstrates (among other things) the influence it had on his actions, (one of the other things being that he lied about his First Vision).

notmo

I guess this is nothing new but the video was cool.

It is important not to forget that TSCC has been modifying and removing parts of the endowment (and initiatories) bit by bit for some time. Mainly after doing various surveys and finding out members were getting more disturbed by things like pantomiming their deaths in three gruesome ways. That came out in 1989, if my recollection is correct. Ah, I Miss those days of being shoulder to shoulder with others in my ward, slitting our throats.…

Regarding the 1989 changes, below is a link to the survey that provided the 'revelations' necessary to identify the changes that were made.

Apparently, ghawd instructed church leaders to figure it out for themselves because he was not going to be their patsy and just give to them like he was some kind of ghawd or something...

And I have to admit that ghawd not giving it to them on a silver prophetic platter kind of impresses me!  It's not like he's the kind of parent who does all the work so his kids can be Eagle Scouts so he can brag about them...

https://www.scribd.com/doc/76542947/1988-Temple-Survey


I only know this via hearsay, but apparently, a regular feature of the temple ceremony was calling down a curse on the United States government...  I have read that this was retracted before I was even born.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I only know this via hearsay, but apparently, a
> regular feature of the temple ceremony was calling
> down a curse on the United States
> government...  I have read that this was
> retracted before I was even born.

Wait a cotton-picking minute there, Tex !

Wasn’t the U.S. Constitution inspired? What could go Wrong???

EOD- I think you’re referring to the call to bring vengeance upon the killers of one Joey Schmitt down to the 4th generation…

since then they downplayed Vengeance- Retaliation- Retribution,
just sayin’

You, sir, are correct!

"In Mormonism, the oath of vengeance (or law of vengeance) was part of the endowment ritual of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).  Participants swore an oath to pray for God to avenge the blood of prophets Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith, who were assassinated in 1844.  The oath was part of the ceremony from about 1845 until the early 1930s."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_vengeance

I once saw some sort of Masonic handbook that had been part of the funeral of a man who was a Mason. It had the text of one of their ceremonies. While parts of the ceremonial narrative were nothing like the temple endowment, parts of it matched word for word. My favorite was “we will return and report.”

I had already left Mormonism at that point, over the BoA and BoM, so seeing that the endowment was lifted from the Masons was mostly just humorous from my point of view.


Some people seem to hold the Masons in awe, like they are powerful and rich and some kind of Illuminati. Judging by the elaborate Masonic Temples in two cities I lived in, they obviously once had money. Those buildings were not cheap.

However, these days I see the Masons as a high-end Elks Club - old guys in bad pants nursing a whiskey and water and basically being irrelevant blowhards, with the occasional charity project undertaken.

The Masons are an anachronism, and Mormons are headed that way.

> The Masons are an anachronism,
< and Mormons are headed that way.


Personally, I admire the Masons, especially the "Shriners" aspect of their 'movement,' as exemplified by their little midget carritos!

Can you imagine the gradeur of watching a line of 15 midget cars carring the General Authorities onto the stage of the Spacious Building that is the Conference Center?

Goosebumps!!

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Can you imagine the gradeur of watching a line of
> 15 midget cars carring the General Authorities
> onto the stage of the Spacious Building that is
> the Conference Center?
>

Thankyou for the second round of loud laughter today, EOD.
My first LOLs were thanks to Tim Minchin on YouTube.

Not all Masonic buildings are ornate. The one I grew up in was a one story brick office building. The lodge was on one side of the main hall, the city library on the other. Now the library side is the city American Legion.

They have done little to the interior of the lodge side since the building went up in the 1960’s. As a matter of fact the wallpaper in the ladies room is original. At this point I think it’s hiding the walls together.

There is also a Masonic lodge in Evanston (pop 11k) WY, of all places. Most of the building has been sold off, and currently houses For Pete’s Sake Coffee Shop, but I believe there is a back room upstairs that is still used for lodge meetings.

The building is pretty large and on a corner lot. I bet it costs the coffee shop a small fortune to heat in the winter. Even in Evanston the Masons once had significant money, and by implication, power. Not so much now.

ETA: the Evanston building is not at all ornate, but it is one of the larger buildings in downtown Evanston. Corner of Ninth and Main.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2023 09:39PM by Brother Of Jerry.

I once toured the former Masonic temple in Baltimore, and it is a stunning building. No Mormon temple can touch it for sheer beauty and ornateness of the interior architecture and decor. It functions as a hotel now, and you can hold events there such as wedding receptions.

As a child, I delighted in seeing those Shriner mini-cars in town parades. I didn't realize that the Shrine serves as a social club for the Masons. Apparently, there are quite a number of other social clubs and sub-groups for them.

I'm going to visit the Grand in Baltimore just so I can sit in comfortable chairs until I'm ready to move on (from a guy who was always kicked out of the Celestial Room).

Masons have tiers just like the Mormon church. The grunts at the bottom pay for the society, while the grand masters and above reap other benefits from them. They become high society.

See my listing of similarities between the Masonic initiation and the Mormon endowment:

http://packham.n4m.org/mason-endow.htm

Thing is that most Masonic ceremonies have been out in the open for years!

If you read War and Peace (first translated into English in 1899), you can read a fairly detailed description of Pierre being initiated. Surely some Mormon way back then must have read it.

Yes, I read War and Peace in my free time in high school. I remember the detailed descriptions of Masonry. That was my first real introduction to it.

Joseph was a great borrower. He borrowed from everything in his milieu.

It's kinda obvious to anyone with a bargain basement understanding of Masonry.