In his Kirtland diary, Wilford Woodruff claims Satan appeared. I thought I had been taught that the temple was a place where Satan could not enter, and had no power. Am I remembering that incorrectly?

Maybe we completely misunderstand Satan within the context of Mormon theology. Satan is certainly opposing God, however Satan is a part of God's divine council until the final judgement. When we look at it like that, one can see no reason to think Satan can't appear in the temple. Also as of April 7th, 1837, the Kirtland temple was arguably defiled and was no longer God's house.

I find the account a bit silly though. A god with divine powers is going to appear, with seemingly no agenda, and then disappear simply because they prayed him away? The account strongly suggests that they were a match for Satan, which is frankly very silly.

https://wilfordwoodruffpapers.org/documents/b048a7c5-6b6b-438a-bce7-262d5ba297d8/page/a3a59222-95d2-4eae-afd3-9f127c527e0f

So Woodruff bever saw Jesus in the temple, but did see his younger brother then?

The temple rules are made up by a bunch of guys at a conference table. Temple folklore is even flimsier than that.

Satan is a completely imaginary character, useful mainly for bad movies and halloween costumes. The interaction between arbitrary rules/folklore and imaginary characters is pretty much anything you want it to be.

One of the items in the proposed Temple Square overhaul is a mini-temple that will be in permanent "open house" mode that tourists could enter. When it is needed/wanted as an actual temple, it would be dedicated for the event, then revert to open house status, open to the general public.

Have temples ever worked that way? No. Will they ever work that way? No, until the answer is yes.

Both folklore and policies are not laws of physics. They are arbitrary, and can be changed at will. Black men can't receive the priesthood until the rest of the (male) world has had the opportunity? Apparently in 1978 God decided the rest of the world had had the opportunity, except for China, India, all the Soviet countries and all the Islamic countries, (edit to add: and I believe all but 1 African country), minor exceptions all.

That's how it works.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2024 10:32AM by Brother Of Jerry.

Any story without a great antagonist is boring. Imagine the original Star Wars without Darth Vader. How about Psycho without Norman Bates or Silence of the Lambs sans Hannibal Lector.

But Religion? They really brought it home. Satan. Son of God. Has all the powers of eternity at his fingertips and is clever clever clever. He won't just kill you. NO. Boring. He will trick you into spending eternity in the hellfires of damnation. And nothing can stop him until they finally have the storied "MILLENIUM!"

Nobody does it like religion.

I never heard that about Wilford but it doesn't surprise me. Everyone needs a gimmick when you are in that position. Russ should sit up and take note.

I was so shocked when I got the endowment and Lucifer was running the show. A clueless Elohim was even asking him what was going on while Peter James and John were acting like lap dogs as I noticed the upside down pentagrams on the wall. Huh?

The problem with the LDS Mormons is even with the best villain ever they still can't come up with a story that sticks.

A disembodied evil spirt appears in the temple? That just makes the temple a haunted house.

If Wilford Woodruff says he saw Satan in the temple, I think I would be more likely to go with Scrooge's rational for seeing Bob Marley.

"....might be an undigested piece of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, or a fragment of an underdone potato."

I wonder what WW had to eat that day because he didn't see Satan.

oops, meant to reply to OP :)

Does god help satan ?
If you are bad does god send you to hell, which is exactly what satan wants ?

Exactly. Only our loving Heavenly Father can send you to Hell. Satan can use his wiles but the final decision isn't his. What a system.

They can never seem to get all of the pieces of their story to fit.

They say that you will summon Satan to be present if you say his name and talk about him. Then they talk about him in the temple. Then they say Satan can't enter the temple. Go figure.

I guess the super holy drywall in the temple has a Satan barrier.

Why was God, who could do anything, not able to explain to and convince his son Satan of anything? It's all such obvious mythology, it's hard to believe anyone takes it seriously.

dagny Wrote:
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> They can never seem to get all of the pieces of
> their story to fit.
>
> They say that you will summon Satan to be present
> if you say his name and talk about him. Then they
> talk about him in the temple. Then they say Satan
> can't enter the temple. Go figure.

They sure talk about Satan a lot in the endowment.

Gotta have some face with those who signed Stan’s TR…

just sayin’

Satan also visited the Logan Temple. 1885 or so? Showed up with his minions, dressed in black. Arrived by wagon. Wandered on in to the temple presidents office. Told him that they were upset about all the afterlife redemption work going on in the temple. Prez told him to leave and he did. And temple attendance improved after that.

Something along those lines.

It's in this book.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/404214566646
Logan Temple The First 100 Years Nolan Olsen

RG



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2024 03:03AM by reinventinggrace.

I would believe both Wilford and Nolan. Their lived in a time of spiritualism and were strong believers. Life was also very hard in those days in terms of survival. The kind of intense trauma that enhances spiritual sensitivity was more widespread. What they saw was real to them.

The church of that time no longer exists. The church of 1960 doesn't even exist. It has been replaced by a real estate empire where profit has replaced prophet.

But that's okay. Without adversity, Mormonism isn't Mormonism. We live in a different time. The hardest thing Mormons have to do is lift their fat butts out of the pew after sitting for two hours.

I thought I had been taught that the temple was a place where Satan could not enter, and had no power. Am I remembering that incorrectly? No! It was definitely taught that it was a sacred place that he could not enter. My European partner was brought up being taught that. Not just enter, but can't even influence someone. So if you have bad thoughts in the temple they are your own.

About two years ago we had a conversation about that.

Cousins that were baptized (my cousin that passed), tormented me while I was participating in the endowment on his behalf. So it is possible.

Yep, was told this. We were taught the Temple was an oasis where Satan couldn't get in.

So I can't blame Satan for me wishing that naked Eve would step out from behind the shrubbery in that old temple movie?

Shinehah Wrote:
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> So I can't blame Satan for me wishing that naked
> Eve would step out from behind the shrubbery in
> that old temple movie?

I thought that was just me. LOL

Didn't someone spot Bigfoot-Cain in a temple basement once?

When I went to the temple, many of the workers were elderly. We often had people get sick or even die in the place. They pretended like nothing was happening or that they had gone to meet the people they did work for.