More than 200 Spokane churches were asked to open their doors to homeless people during dangerously cold weather — four agreed

https://www.inlander.com/news/more-than-200-spokane-churches-were-asked-to-open-their-doors-to-homeless-people-during-dangerously-cold-weather-four-agreed-27303574


Please correct me if I am wrong. I did not read that the lds church was one of the 4 churches.

- Liberty Park United Methodist Church
- New Apostolic
- Presbyterian church
- Morning Star Baptist church

So the lds church has a 100 billion dollar rainy day fund. Isn't being frozen to death a rainy day?

A quick google search there is an lds building in Spokane.

https://maps.churchofjesuschrist.org/wards/31283

What would Jesus do?

subeamnotlogedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A quick google search there is an lds building in
> Spokane.
>
> https://maps.churchofjesuschrist.org/wards/31283
>
> What would Jesus do?

Not this.

I would change churches to one of those four.

What you do there is get frostbite, go to the ER to collect evidence, and after some time in a comfy warm bed, shake down the city for a settlement because they prevented you from getting warm.

"As a result, other organizations including the Provo Seventh-day Adventist Community Service Center, Provo Community Congregational United Church of Christ, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and St. Mary's Episcopal Church have stepped up to provide warm shelter for community members."

https://www.kuer.org/race-religion-social-justice/2023-11-29/utah-county-churches-are-lined-up-as-needed-warming-shelters-for-the-winter

Yes, I know I resigned over 10 years ago but I could not help myself I had to write an e-mail to the bishop at the Spokane ward.

"Dear Bishop W, I have read the following article.
More than 200 Spokane churches were asked to open their doors to homeless people during dangerously cold weather — four agreed

https://www.inlander.com/news/more-than-200-spokane-churches-were-asked-to-open-their-doors-to-homeless-people-during-dangerously-cold-weather-four-agreed-27303574


Please correct me if I am wrong. I did not read that the lds church was one of the 4 churches.

- Liberty Park United Methodist Church
- New Apostolic
- Presbyterian Church
- Morning Star Baptist church

In Utah the lds church is helping.

https://www.kuer.org/race-religion-social-justice/2023-11-29/utah-county-churches-are-lined-up-as-needed-warming-shelters-for-the-winter

"As a result, other organizations including the Provo Seventh-day Adventist Community Service Center, Provo Community Congregational United Church of Christ, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and St. Mary's Episcopal Church have stepped up to provide warm shelter for community members."

Could you please ask the stake president if next time the temperatures are below freezing the lds church could help out too?

Sincerely, my full first and last name "

This e-mail I have sent to 10 Bishops in Spokane, Washington. I will post if one of them will send me a reply to my e-mail.

I admire your activism about this.

I was homeless in Seattle in 2012, and I slept in a shelter in the finished basement of a church from 9 pm to 9 am. I am incredibly thankful for the safety and warmth we were provided.

There were about 15 of us, all women (including two who were misgendered at birth as males). We were vetted at homeless drop-in day centers and later taken to the shelter, its location undisclosed because many women were fleeing abusive relationships.

The church has helped fund a drop in center closer to the shelter where people can eat real food and wash a load of clothes. I think the center might have showers now.

Every bit helps. Every smile helps. Every hug helps.

That's the cold hardhearted argument in favor of welfare.

Sometimes highly productive people fall on hard times. Without support, many of those lives will be ruined and their contributions to society lost; often they become net losses. By contrast, if support is available those people recover and resume adding to the economic and social strength of the community.

The other day I alluded to Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations in that regard. People think the great capitalist philosophers were opposed to welfare, which is untrue. Smith, who along with Milton Friedman is today the patron saint of conservatism, was in fact anachronistically "progressive" in this way. He wrote that society must provide a social safety net; public education, not charter schools but universal schools; and other things not out of feel-good sentiment but in order to maximize the contributions of the individual and thereby increase social utility in general. He wrote these things in 1776, long before modern liberalism was a thing.

And look at Friedman, who wanted corporations to focus solely on the generation of wealth for shareholders. He also said that society should enact a universal basic income because that was the only way to ensure that individuals and families could weather the storms of life and keep producing economically and otherwise. It is dishonest to argue that welfare is a "progressive" idea. A modest social safety net has been part of capitalism since Adam Smith first described, and advocated, that system 250 years ago.

Which is a long way to say I'm glad, Beth, that you received the support you needed to get through that difficult period. Thank karma for people and institutions that provide such bridges.

I got a reply.

"Thanks for letting me know subeamnotlogedin. This is the first I have heard of it. I will pass this along to the Stake as well.

Bishop W"

From 10 bishops only one has replied.

The lds church has a calling called the "Ward Emergency Preparedness Specialist".



https://www.iwillprepare.com/files/pdf/Ward%20Emer%20Prep%20Rep%20Calling%20Responsibilities.pdf

I live in Texas and the former Relief Society President was part of Interfaith Ministries.

Even when the lds church due to liability reasons doesn't want to open their building in freezing temperatures they could pay a motel for let's say 20 rooms. Or the lds church could have passed out sleeping bags. With over 100 billion dollars the lds church should have been able to help.

I'm pleasantly surprised!

I would have supposed that a "Ward Emergency Preparedness Specialist" was the one who stocked and then handed out the yellow "look at us mormons doing as little as possible" t-shirts...

The reason those churches in Utah County are opening homeless shelters is because the county government does diddly-squat to provide for the homeless.

The county attitude is that if they provide no services at all, the homeless will stay out of Utah County, and go to Salt Lake County. Probably true, but it is a spectacularly un-Christian attitude. That is why some Utah County churches, including LDS Inc, are stepping up and providing at least minimal service in life-threatening weather.

Brother Of Jerry thank you for sharing this information. Once again I googled and found something.

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/provo-emergency-shelter-program-links-homeless-population-to-crucial-services#:~:text=%E2%80%9COur%20emergency%20shelter%20program%20offers,often%20found%20around%20homeless%20encampments.



"Utah County doesn't have any overnight homeless shelters, so with $40,000 in funding from the State of Utah, Community Action Services and Food Bank in Provo is providing vouchers for an emergency one-night stay in a motel to keep people "warm and safe," said McCandless."

The one true church could provide vouchers.

The ‘homeless’ individuals are now Politically Correct, (which I agree/support), we should refer to them as Unhoused

Not too long ago ‘illegal immigrants’ changed were upgraded to being referred to as undocumented.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2024 01:45PM by GNPE.

Churches are not in the business of helping people. They are in the business of swindling people out of money.

It is alarming tyo me that any church would deny shelter and I make no excuses for their lack of compassion. That said there are Christian groups in Spokane who are already offering shelter and not listed in the report. These include The Salvation Army, St Margaret's Shelter (Catholic), Union Gospel Mission. Truth Ministries, and City Gate Fellowship.

I am not aware or sure if any churches here opened to the homeless during our recent brutal cold snap. A week ago it was -41 here with a -50 wind chill. The public library opened it's doors as a warming center. I know of one death as a result of the cold. There was talk of some who won't use our homeless shelter (which is run by the Blood Tribe, largest native reserve in Canada, which borders Lethbridge) because they refuse to abide by the rules the shelter requires it's users to adhere to. Not an uncommon situation here. And it was even colder in Calgary and Edmonton.

Housing is a challenging issue…

A while back it was reported that some SLC (org ?) was ‘giving apartments’ do unhoused ppl.

This may not sound charitable, but I believe locally funded programs should give first priority to local citizens so as to prevent others from taking advantage of local resources.

The opposite of this is bussing immigrants far away from border areas with promises of housing, nutrition, education & health care, etc.

IOW, a more community approach

I'm going to get pushback for this and no doubt I will offend everyone. I just went on a long walk and passed two cold homeless people and 4 locked churches.

In the big scheme of things, religion is clearly doing very little to solve the problems of poverty and homelessness they claim to be helping. Yes, we all know of some exceptions. Too many religious people vote against getting programs to help the poor. They give lip service to Jesus and then vote to help the rich.

My state is highly religious and does astoundingly little to support programs that help the lower class. They have little regard for supporting children and schools. They start up their own charter religious schools that take public money while the public schools are crumbling. They cut school lunches for kids. They vote to prevent child care and medical services that impact the poor overwhelmingly.

In the USA, there should not hungry children, increasing homelessness and unlivable wages. Who keeps trying to prevent the government from helping? Who keeps up the delusion that their religion is solving any of these problems?

I think it is time to quit giving religion any tax breaks and set up actual charity to help the poor. Charity is not handing out Bibles or a one week trip to Haiti. Charity is not bringing a casserole to a poor family. I mean charity that solves problems instead of perpetuating them.

Look at the megachurches. Look at the Mormon church. Look at the number of churches in every town and the people on the streets. Religion, once again, is mostly lip service when it comes to all their faith, thoughts and prayers.

Religion allows humans to judge ... and for some reason, religious people pretty much judge themselves to be better than others, no matter the category picked.  Thus its appeal...

Choosing to save others means we have to value them as much as we value ourselves.  Putting someone else's needs ahead of our own is NOT a human survival trait...which is why it is so rare.

Humans pride themselves on being able to "think" but they seldom choose to "think" about something other than themselves.

And no, we're not meant to be "better" than that; that not what it means to be human.  Fundamentally, eating and breeding are our primary concerns.  Charity, when it exists, is all about helping the destitute to serve us better.

Humans can do better, but the cry, "What's in it for me?" needs better answers than we currently provice.


Have I mentioned recently how much I love you guys?  But I love me more...  It's a curse and most of us suffer from it.



Now let's go out there and win this game!!!

My Lutheran congregation used to participate in a multi-church program that provided food to homeless folks. The congregation stopped after several members were assaulted by the folks they were serving. A not insignificant portion of the homeless community where I reside have substance abuse and/or mental health issues. You can't fling open the front door of the sanctuary and expect all comers to play nice and sing kumbaya. All parties involved deserve to be safe.

This isn't to say that churches should just ignore the problem ~ They absolutely should not. However, there needs to be effort, planning, and monetary resources put in up front. Facilities need to be appropriate, members need training on keeping themselves and guests safe.

Apparently, that's not happening.

This issue being discussed in this post is a microcosm of a much larger problem. The resources needed for churches (as 1206 mentioned) to bring in the homeless during the winter are the same to address the problem at a national level. IMO, the homeless issue has been creeping up on the US since the 80s when Reagan cut social programs. Of course drugs has been a major influence which we've been unable to get under control. I have no idea what the solution is but I doubt there is any political will to properly address. People will wring their hands and cry out something needs to be done but wait, the Super Bowl is on now...

It goes back even farther than Reagan. In the 1960s and early 1970s there was a lot of justified concern about abuses in mental health facilities. The upshot was a movement that favored closing those facilities and returning the inmates to their families and communities, who would love and care for them.

But of course the reality is like bans on abortion: they make the proponents feel good but no one provides funding for either the mothers or the children. The mental health element of this began in the early and middle 1970s and hence antedated Reagan's election.

I agree all kinds of risks exist when you let random people on your property. It can be dangerous and you can get sued.

So maybe church money to help pay for professional mental health services for the poor would be an idea. We hear about religious counseling, but when push comes to shove, they don't want the people who are mentally ill roaming around their property.

It's pretty obvious that mental illness and religion are not a great combination. That's one more reason I prefer public services over religion for most everything. My point is that religion claims to be all about charity and gets tax breaks for it. I'm not convinced they are deserving of making such claims or tax favors.

"Provo is providing vouchers for an emergency one-night stay in a motel to keep people "warm and safe," said McCandless."

The lds church could provide vouchers in Spokane too.

That way the lds church who has an 100 billion dollar rainy day fund can help without putting their property in danger.

Like in the article, the shelter I stayed in was housed in a church, BUT the program was run by a non-profit that bought insurance and contracted with the various places that agreed to allow their buildings to be used in the evenings.

A bonus for the church was that our presence reduced the risk of burglary. We didn’t have free reign. We only used one door to get to the basement and were closed off from the rest of the church. If for some reason you left after 9 pm, you weren’t allowed back in. We slept on mats on the floor and cleaned the basement and bathroom every morning, put the mats away, etc. We also would kick out anyone who flagrantly broke the rules. We did this once when I was there. She put us and the relationship with the church at risk. It was hard, but she had to go.

Anyway, I guess what I’m saying is that giving people shelter doesn’t have to be some free for all. It can be planned carefully and many processes can be used to help ensure the safety and dignity of all.

Hearing about your experience is encouraging. I hope more non-profits like that can work with churches like that.

Thank you. Love back to you, Ms. Duck Lady. You're a wise star and an example for me!

The problem with churches and non-profits doing that work lies in the cyclical nature of their funding. In short, their income streams collapse during hard economic times, leaving the homeless and others without a safety net.

As Adam Smith and Milton Friedman both argued, it is incumbent on the state to provide that support for two reasons. The first is that government funding is the only way the assistance will be available when it's most needed--which, I believe, is the point.

Second, giving money to poor people during a recession is the best way to encourage a return to economic growth. If you give money to rich people, they'll save it because they already enjoy the lifestyle they desire. There will be no accretion to aggregate demand. Poor people, by contrast, will spend it on food and clothing so they and their children can survive. A dollar of spending on the poor produces almost a dollar of stimulus to GDP.

Asking charities to provide the safety net is better than having none at all, but it's ridiculous to think that that can substitute for a constantly available system run by the polity as a whole.

I was lucky: The non-profit was secular, and the church didn’t condition their help on church attendance. I never went to a mission or the Salvation Army for a meal, because their help is predicated on attendance.

Sigh.
You're not wrong. We need consistent planned solutions.
I'm disgusted that help would be predicated on attendance in some places.

subeamnotlogedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More than 200 Spokane churches were asked to open
> their doors to homeless people during dangerously
> cold weather — four agreed
>
> https://www.inlander.com/news/more-than-200-spokan
> e-churches-were-asked-to-open-their-doors-to-homel
> ess-people-during-dangerously-cold-weather-four-ag
> reed-27303574
>
>
> Please correct me if I am wrong. I did not read
> that the lds church was one of the 4 churches.
>
> - Liberty Park United Methodist Church
> - New Apostolic
> - Presbyterian church
> - Morning Star Baptist church
>
> So the lds church has a 100 billion dollar rainy
> day fund. Isn't being frozen to death a rainy day?

“Garcia says the goal is for each of the four churches participating in the program to continue hosting people through the end of February.”

Through the end of February. The lds church can still help out it is not the end of February yet. Mormon PR this is your chance.

It is terrible but the authorities need to stop bussing these people around and moving the problem. They created this issue.