In the spirit of Nietzsche, as I paralleled before, I want to revisit the idea that Christianity is basically nihilistic. What's more is that Mormonism is especially nihilistic. You need look no further than the Second Anointing as evidence.

Exporting life to a presupposed heaven devalues real life. If you do crappy things, you can confess to a priest if you are Catholic or pay a full tithe and ask Jesus for forgiveness if you are Mormon. Catholicism is cheaper. Either way, you are off the hook just like magic. How do you know it worked? Faith. If you can feel good about being an asshole, your salvation is assured.

Jesus died for your sins and paid them off completely. It works like a limitless prepaid credit card, which we in Western Civilization spend like a tipsy housewife.

Nobody believed in Jesus more than the missionaries of earlier centuries who took it upon themselves to bring Jesus to the "uncivilized savages". They brought death. The death of the animistic world really was the death of God. So now we have Jesus the Genie, granter of wishes. You didn't get what you wished for? Wish harder. You paid your 10%, didn't you?

Mormonism piles temple rituals on top of that. A little hokus pokus gives you tremendous benefits in the afterlife. The fact that you have to die to collect your fabulous reward taken completely on faith is irrelevant. You just know it's there.

You go to a temple so you can live with God forever and get heaven's cheat codes. I suppose that would appeal to a mind fixated in late adolescence as most Mormons are. To be fair to Christians, you are the temple, you already live with God forever, and life is the reward. No deposit required. But Mormons have to be sold what is already theirs. Whatever you pay dearly for, you hold dear even if it's total BS.

I don't have any answers for what ails the church. I mean I do, but they would fall on deaf ears. Mormons don't want to change. Plus, as a serious introvert, organized religion doesn't work for me. So it's none of my business anyway.

I would also note that mythological or not, Jesus was no nihilist. That would suggest that we as a collective lost the plot a long time ago. As nice as denial of that would be, there's Gaza.

I like the way you put all that. Religion proving itself worthless. But still mean?

I look at a lot of belief in the same way. There is one common human flaw that makes religion possible: Humans want to be told what they want to hear. Humans will believe what they want to be true. Compounded by the smugness of being the ones who know it when others don't. So you tell them what they want to hear and that is the ticket to getting what you want. Once you figure that out it is easier to control others.

"Life is tough, but, at least in the hereafter I will be part of the "in crowd" with a mansion. I am so lucky to know this."

The evidence for God cannot be proven in a court of law. You can prove there is a Bible who says there is god. You can prove that people believe in God. You can prove there are church buildings, temples, and statues of gods. But, there is no evidence of an actual God anywhere. All is hearsay. There is no celestial equivalent of DNA to be assayed under a microscope. Of course it would be easy to pick a jury that comes to the conclusion that the defense's claims are true-- sunsets, flowers, and babies prove there is a god and find for religion.

"Knowing" there is a god is on the same level as knowing covid was a hoax because your best friend's sister's boyfriend has a cousin who works as a receptionist for a doctor and she says . . .

Not knowing has its pluses. Unless, of course, you are on Jeopardy.

I, for one, am of conflicting opinions when it comes to the best, the proper way, to live the life of a nihilist!

When it comes to nihilism, I demand order!

I understand that for you, 'American' would be a third language, so Imma let your fough paw slide this one time...

In 'American,' it's "I got nuttin, honey."

You do realize we also speak English in Europe, don't you?

:-)

I was just trying to point out that there may be a difference between English and 'American'...

Glad you acknowledge the difference lol.

> I was just trying to point out that there may be a
> difference between 'English' and American...

If you're going to use scare quotes, you should use them the right way.









PS: Kentish is a biased witness.

Not to be nit-picky, but I am a Catholic that was raised Mormon. Confession is not a get out of jail free card. What it does is put you back in a state of grace. However, if you don't do a sufficient amount of penance for your sins in this life, you will suffer in purgatory in the next. God gets his pound of flesh one way or another. I totally understand if a person does not want to believe in Catholicism, but to represent Confession as wiping the slate clean is not quite right.

Catalina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not to be nit-picky...
> but to represent Confession as wiping
> the slate clean is not quite right.

Sometimes nit-picky is good. Getting things quite right is an important goal. Thanks for your input.

On another note: who is Donny?

In the spirit of Nietzsche, as I paralleled before, I want to revisit the idea that Christianity is basically nihilistic. What's more is that Mormonism is especially nihilistic. You need look no further than the Second Anointing as evidence.

COMMENT: This idea ("Christianity is basically nihilistic") is patently false, but let's hear you out.

Keep in mind that "nihilism" essentially encompasses the view that there are no genuine moral principles, and that life is meaningless.
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Exporting life to a presupposed heaven devalues real life. If you do crappy things, you can confess to a priest if you are Catholic or pay a full tithe and ask Jesus for forgiveness if you are Mormon. Catholicism is cheaper. Either way, you are off the hook just like magic. How do you know it worked? Faith. If you can feel good about being an asshole, your salvation is assured.

COMMENT: Believing that your moral actions in this life have consequences in a next life does NOT devalue this life; in fact, it makes actions in this life more significant, not less. For those not believing in an afterlife, even if they subscribe to strict, humanistic, moral principles, all personal meaning and accountability ends at death, both for perpetrators and victims. This is the meaninglessness highlighted by Nietzsche.

Further, even if the Christian doctrines of forgiveness and penitence at times seem like a "get out of jail free card," such mechanisms often involve guilt, remorse, suffering, restitution, etc., and thus are nowhere near the blanket power of final *death* as a 'get out of jail free' card available as a matter of course for the non-religious. Again, this is the meaninglessness highlighted by Nietzsche.
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Jesus died for your sins and paid them off completely. It works like a limitless prepaid credit card, which we in Western Civilization spend like a tipsy housewife.

COMMENT: For those who believe this, or any form of it, the redemption associated with the so-called "atonement" is a metaphysical doctrine that usually applies to those who have gone through the repentance process, or otherwise will be required to do so at some point. In no way does Christianity view Christ's atonement as sanctioning morally "free" behavior, or as removing all of the personal mandates and consequences of immoral behavior.
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Nobody believed in Jesus more than the missionaries of earlier centuries who took it upon themselves to bring Jesus to the "uncivilized savages". They brought death. The death of the animistic world really was the death of God. So now we have Jesus the Genie, granter of wishes. You didn't get what you wished for? Wish harder. You paid your 10%, didn't you?

COMMENT: I don't get what you are saying here, but it sounds like an historical point, rather than a doctrinal or philosophical (nihilistic?) point.
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Mormonism piles temple rituals on top of that. A little hokus pokus gives you tremendous benefits in the afterlife. The fact that you have to die to collect your fabulous reward taken completely on faith is irrelevant. You just know it's there.

COMMENT: So what? There is belief in redemption; there is belief in afterlife rewards. Moreover, presumably most Christians believe there are moral requirements in the afterlife. What does this have to do with nihilism?
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You go to a temple so you can live with God forever and get heaven's cheat codes. I suppose that would appeal to a mind fixated in late adolescence as most Mormons are. To be fair to Christians, you are the temple, you already live with God forever, and life is the reward. No deposit required. But Mormons have to be sold what is already theirs. Whatever you pay dearly for, you hold dear even if it's total BS.

COMMENT: Okay, BS. So what? How does the fact that a Mormon, or any other religious person, believes in nonsense make them nihilistic? There are no nihilistic doctrines in Christianity generally. (As far as I know) Morality matter! Even the Mormon doctrine of a second anointing does not advocate nihilism for those who have reached that status.
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I don't have any answers for what ails the church. I mean I do, but they would fall on deaf ears. Mormons don't want to change. Plus, as a serious introvert, organized religion doesn't work for me. So it's none of my business anyway.

COMMENT: Okay, it doesn't work for you. Does that make you nihilistic? If not, what is the basis for your own brand of morality such that life is not meaningless for you?
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I would also note that mythological or not, Jesus was no nihilist. That would suggest that we as a collective lost the plot a long time ago. As nice as denial of that would be, there's Gaza.

COMMENT: Of course he wasn't, and neither are his followers even if we sometimes get frustrated about their often-inconsistent moral values and moral priorities.

We should concede Nietzsche's point that Christianity is "slave morality" and instead take upon ourselves to understand the morality of our wouldbe masters and how to defeat them.

Oh, my bad;

I thought you were referring to the Other Donnie


(did I get that right at first?)