My son is up for an award with his LDS sponsored Boy Scout troop but his leader just sent me an e-mail saying he can't get it because his attendance is less than 50 percent. This is because my son goes to 90 percent of the Boy Scout stuff but none of the YM stuff. The leader is coming over in an hour to discuss the requirements for this level advancement. I know that they can't force people to attend the Mormon church in order to get Boy Scout awards - the LDS church is just the sponsoring organization. It seems to me there is some legal precedence for this, but I can't find it. Anyone have anything I can say to this leader to let him know that he can only measure my son's attendance at Scouts when handing out awards? Thank You!

look at the boy scout handbook.

what is the award by the way? if it is a rank or merit badge, and he has completed all the requirements, then complain to the district executive,

then put you son in a normal, functioning, traditional camping troop.

your DE can recommend one.

If you're son is in a marment troop, he ain't in scouting. And his eagle from a marment troop will be similarly tainted, along with all the scout skills he did not learn.

It's a Varsity letter. He's completed all the requirements, except attendance, which must be at 75 percent for the last 3 months. Because he is close to getting his Eagle, we've really tried to have him at all official scouting activities.

I tried to get my son to change to a non-LDS troop last fall but he didn't know any of the boys in that troop. I really wanted him to switch or go into Sea Scouts, which is popular where I live because we are near the coast. But he just wants to get his Eagle and be done with it, since he will probably have it by the end of summer.

because Varsity was invented by BSA at the request of the marments to keep the scouts segregated by age. troop 11-12, team 13-14, crew 15-16 then on to YM. real scouting troop 11-17 or maybe graduate to COED crew at 14.

I don't know any varsity teams existing outside of marmentdumb.

Regardless, look at the requirements, ask dipshit leader where that requirement is written in the book,

and then yank you son of that unit and put him in a real scout troop. I suspect a varsity letter in BSA carries all the baggage that a diploma from YBU does.

then he is too damn young to have earned it.

he didn't do shit because it was all pencil whipped.

It will mean nothing to him, or to anybody else in the real world.

did he actually earn Lifesaving merit badge?

a 13-14 can't.

In my council growing up it was "no eagle until you were at least 15." There were no mormons there, troop and all the awards earned were legit, but they didn't want kids flying through the program and bowing out after getting eagle.

Ask the leader to show you a calendar of the last 3 months and explain what was done for Boy Scouts on each night that your son was supposed to be there. Most likely he can't produce it, since they usually play basketball in a standard mo troop. You need to discount all of the combined activities - definitely not scouts - which usually happen once per month. A lot of time the fifth week will be some nerd mormon gig also so that can be discounted. If he can't remember any of this (most likely) ask the young women, they can probably tell you down to the minute...:)

Campouts would count also, I assume. Do the math and call him on it. Mormons can't deal with facts. Also ask which of those nights the boys were to be in uniform, if none - likely - than they can't count any as Scout Nights as far as I'm concerned.

Ask for proof of every Scout activity over the last 3 months and call him on it!

I don't have any answers for you. But you just made it clear to me why I'm going to make sure my son is in a non-mo troop! Oh my!

In salt lick city how do you go about finding a non-mo troop? My son is only 6 but I want to sign him up.

In my city our Methodist church has a boy scout troop. Try that or another denomination.

Do you know if it is common for other denominations to try to convert boy's in scouting to their church? Or do they just let that be and do scout's?

I know Mormon's do, because I'm a girl and even I know that they tried to use scouts as a conversion tool! lol
Just like they did with YW

is interested in converting your child or dealing with religion at all, other than being "theist"

in Scouts Canada, their religion award recognizes that people are actually without theism.

In my troop, religion never comes up at all.

We are chartered by a church. But they believe in scouting as community service, not as a missionary opportunity.

And besides, we are Prod in an overwhelmingly Cath community. Most parents believe they would burst into flames (literally) if they ever stepped foot in our sanctuary.

My troop was with a congregational church growing up and at no time did they ever try to bring anybody to the UCC. I think most of the troop (90%+) was actually catholic.

No, we don't try to convert, freeasabird. I am sure if a parent who has a boy involved with our scouting program asks about our services the leader would tell the parent about that. But the boys don't do that sort of thing at all. They are there for SCOUTS only.

I think tying scouts into religion or vice versa is truly rude and uncalled for. We lived in Utah awhile back and when my girls were there growing up I heard about this sort of thing and decided NO WAY would I put them in girl scouts. But later I heard girl scouts were different than boy scouts in Utah and girl scouting wasn't stressed at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2011 01:55AM by honestone.

Thanks for the replies! It's good to know that I can find a place for my son to do scouting but not have to deal with the attempts at conversion.

I always felt cheated that us girls didn't get to do girl scouts with the church. Wish my mom would've found me a troop to join, I might've liked it. Then again, maybe not!

I was in a Girl Scout troop sponsored by a Lutheran church. There were no attempts at conversion.

You have to remember that the mainstream Christian chuches have a live and let live philosophy when it comes to nonmembers. If you are interested, they are glad to tell you about their religion or to have you as a member. But they won't push it on you. There are no in-house missionaries, and no attitude of "every member a missionary." It's just a completely different way of going about things.

What is a "marment" troop?

"marment" heehee

Overheard at Scout Jamboree.. Young scout; "Are they are in a scout troop or are they Mormons?" The kids were watching the Mormon kids set up their tents.

Haha, thanks guys. I get it now :)

I believe you are referring to the Duty to God award, which is a religious award the morgbots give the boys. He doesn't need this award to obtain his Eagle. It is separate and apart from the main scouting program. Just tell the "leader" when he comes that you primarly are concerned with your son obtaining the rank of eagle, and are not interested in the DTG award.

If he attempts to connect this award as a condition to obtaining his eagle, then transfer to a non-lds troop. Your son has worked to long and hard not to obtain his Eagle.

In the LDS church, at the annual rechartering period, they "double register" all of the boys to be both:
a) Scouts and
b) whatever other group they're in, per age
12-13: Scout Troop
14-15: Varsity Crew
16-18: Venture Post

Varsity and Venture, crews and posts, respectively, exist outside the church, but in a different format. Only in the LDS church do they "double register" the boys to be both a part of the main Boy Scout program, and then also throw them into the others. Varsity and Venture have nothing to do with getting his Eagle, except if in his LDS troop they somehow assimilate the YM church activity into the Varsity Activity (make it one in the same). Get it straightened out though, and get you son to obtain his Eagle ASAP. He has until his 18th b-day, but they tend to lose interest after 16. Sooner the better. I will say that he will have a much better time and experience in a non-lds troop. Don't be afraid to make the switch.


If a young man is in a Venture post (e.g. City Police Venture Post), these boys may have already obtained their Eagle, and are wanting a different high level experience that is more specialized for a career that they may be interested).

the terminology is

scout troop
varsity team
venturing crew
explorer post

back when I was in scouting, exploring was for older scouts. for example our special interest was high adventure aka advanced scouting with girls.

nowaday, an explorer post, as Rod mentioned, geared towards career opportunities, here we have law enforcement, wall street, et al.

so the venture crew has replaced explorers as older scouting with girls. ages are 14-20, and in our units, older scouts are cross registered in the troop and crew and required to be active in the troop and work with younger scouts until their Eagle. But we also have a proud tradition of our Eagles completing the last requirement at 17 years, 360 days. I swear they do it on purpose.

so at that point we then just register them as adult volunteers, and still as Venturers.

hope this helps.