I know you asked Jake this question, but I feel like answering it. Even though young RFM's are suppose to hurry home, date a girl and get married and then have kids hopefully in that order. He didn't do that. Strike one. Strike two, the Mormon girl who waited patiently for him, well he didn't want her when he came back. His parents and her parents were horrified at his behavior. Strike three, he refused to go to BYU and went way out of state to a private secular school. That's the background before we met.

We met the summer between his sophmore year and junior year and when I finished. He told his parents he met a great girl and we really liked each other but she wasn't Mormon. Shit hit the fan...and they really went after him with everything in their arsenal. I refused to meet them since I didn't know if I wanted to even date him any more. Meanwhile, they decided I was a tramp who sexually seduced their innocent son. Well that caused me to about die laughing...it was mutual.

When the next summer we decided to get married. They warned us they wouldn't come. They wanted no part of a gentile wedding ceremony. Could of cared less but it hurt Jake.

After that, we stayed with them and that's when they made my life a living nightmere. You will convert...no I won't. You have to or Jake will be damned forever. Your children will be lost souls. The Mormon spirit children that Jake is suppose to have won't have a home because of you. He will never make it to the CK. It will be your fault.

I worked as a paramedic, yet guess who got do all the work around the house...not his Mother that's for sure. I needed to learn to be a good Mormon wife. I should quit working..sure so we would have no money...

Oh, I wasn't modest. I was opionated.. read had thoughts of my own. I was a lousy cook...that one was true but Jake didn't care. Lazy...because I would read. Frivalous because I would paint in watercolors and oils...and not religious pictures. Spoiled because I brought my favorite horse with me.

Most of all never failed to tell me I wasn't worth of their precious son. Most of this was his Mother. But his Dad let her say it.

I was a heathen and worshiped a false God..I was Catholic.

They intruded in every way possible. So we moved to CA..but that didn't help. His sister lived there at the time and was really TBM..cranking out the kids, putting her husband through school...killing herself. So now she took over while reporting that Jake wasn't going to Church..my fault of course.

While he was in school, our first son was born and here came Mom for a blessing. I said..no blessing, the child will be raised Catholic that's it on the subject. She was totally out of control, totally inappropriate and outright rude.

Second son...same thing. I told her to butt out...and not politely she called me a whore who ruined her son. I told her to go to hell...and that did it.

Jake and I decided that we would separate and we did. I left CA to go back to my home area and got a job. He wasn't done with school and couldn't follow me. His mother told me it was the happiest day of her life when we separated..and I told her to go to hell again. I almost mentioned in passing she reminded me of someone who is totally with out manners or any semblance of decency.

When our divorce was final, the bitch sent me a card saying how happy she was now that Jake could find a lovely Mormon girl and fulfill his promises to the Church. I sent the card back with the message written on it...shove it!

She doesn't like me and I don't trust her at all.

stormy

Our divorce was never her fault. It was totally my fault. She was the same girl I married until my Mom went off the deep end. Being raised in the Mormon culture for whatever reason, immaturity, stupidity I didn't support her enough. I didn't tell my Mom to shut her big mouth and not to say things like that which she never did if I was there.

Love doesn't conquer all, only hard work at a marriage does and I didn't do that.

Even after I realized what had happened, it was way too late. Stormy had had enough of how I acted. She told me she loved me but couldn't respect me. Reminded me of how a man leaves his Mother for his wife. She didn't see that because in many ways I didn't.

What I allowed to happen was completely wrong. So stormy filed for divorce. I didn't contest it and gave her everything she wanted and then some. It didn't make up for the hurt, at this point nothing could.

I cut my ties with my parents. They were totally toxic, mainly my Mother. I followed her when I finished school and my did my residency.

We weren't out of each other's lives since we had the boys.

You know the rest of the story.

Jake

Parents meddling in the lives of adult children. Seems that Mormons do it often. Sorry your mom wanted to direct your life and caused all that hurt. At least you are admitting you allowed your mom to do what she did. At the time you just hadn't allowed yourself to be the person who would direct their own life. But not anymore, huh? So happy for this second chance you are having. Enjoy all the stories you two tell. But especially the happy ending.

I think my son in law also has allowed his mom to interfere in the lives of the men in his family. I think it was his MOM who got my daugher to convert after she held out 3 yrs. after marrying him. She is a rabid Mormon who is so hung up on the "forever family" thing. She has seen two of her sons be way off the reservation for periods in their lives and then once she gets them back on the right track, they are just the perfect examples of manhood. (one sent nudes pics of himself to another girl when his wife was pregnant with their second child). Anyhow, Mormon moms need to let their sons grow up
and be who they want to be. Glad that has happened for you whether she allowed it or not. In all of this mess you have been through I am certain your boys will be treated kindly by their mom when they become young adults.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2011 07:07AM by honestone.

Yes

stormy

the "rest of the story." It was highly personal and i am sure it dredged up some painful memories for you.

Jake's mother is even scarier and more toxic than I thought. I suspect this personality trait is so deeply embedded in her bones that she can never change. Never let your guard down around her.

I agree with Skunk Puppet. It doesn't sound as though she's able to change. What a toxic person.

It would be really difficult for a Mormon boy to tell his mother where to go, because they've been raised to think of them as Mothers in Zion. They're co-Creators with God. In spite of how women are often treated as second-class citizens, their sons are still taught to honour their mothers, and most would never think of defying them. What a confusing, mixed message.

Anyway, I've often heard Mormon women complain that their LDS husbands didn't stand by them and took their mother's side. That's not really unusual. One friend I have was actually shoved by her mother-in-law into a door, while she holding her infant son, and her husband just stood by and let it happen. His mother screamed and yelled at his wife and he did nothing. They're divorced now too.

Good for you, Jake, for growing up and becoming a real man. I think that came out sounding a little corny, but you know what I mean. I'm sure Stormy's proud of you too. You've been given a chance to earn her respect.

This is sounding like one of the classiest most romantic stories I have ever followed on RFM! ;o))

She was truly awful to you, Stormy. I can see how she drove a wedge between the two of you.

Does she treat you better now when Jake is not with you? It sounds like her attitude has come around at least somewhat from your previous stories (I remember you saying that she went to a Catholic church supper with all of you, and it did seem like your recent visit with her was largely peaceful.)

I recall that you said that you and Jake will each take a week (separately) with the boys at his parents' house this summer. Will you be okay there on your own, without Jake?

His mom is much better now..afraid of losing contact with Jake so she has no choice..and I won't allow her to be a pain in the ass..i am almost all grown up and what she thinks doesn't concern me and I don't whine to jake,i handle it myself..however I think is best..

As to the boys we will both have to be with them in order for them to go out there..

I know there are toxic inlaws everywhere but are they all this horrible..?

stormy

but I think I'm a pretty awesome Mother in Law -- so no, we aren't all horrible. In fact, I'll bet Anagrammy is a pretty awesome mother in law too and I'm sure there are more of 'em on this board. If you want, Stormy, I'll be your new mother in law. My first bit of motherly advice is for you two to focus on yourselves and your relationship -- and have a nice, hot, scented bath and eat some chocolate too. :)

This poor woman is absolutely driven with fear. She is brainwashed to the hilt--so much that it has overcome her normal drive for preservation of the family.

It's important to realize that this is the result of cult conditioning. She was not born this way. She has been told since nursery school that the goal of her existence is to bring her family IN TACT to the celestial kingdom. Anything less and she's a failure. And it's a public failure, unlike a man who can be mediocre in his career and who will really know the difference.

This is the great irony of the Mormon Church. It will support the destruction of a family here on earth to "save" it in eternity. Would you make a bet like that if it were put to you before you joined the church?

How about when you were in the pre-existence and got to choose your parents? Did your children choose someone who would give them up in this life if they weren't faithful to the gospel?

Yeah, the logic isn't there at all. The mother is insane and probably walks like a drunk just from the cognitive dissonance alone. What she's done is inexcusable, except that she is really kind of a Manchurian Candidate.

Anagrammy

I was just thinking about how selfish this woman's actions were. She was busting up a marriage where there were children involved and where they would be hurt by a break-up of their parents' marriage. That is really selfishness to the max.

I think I'd have zero respect for her.

Jake's mom is one nasty piece of work. There is something very wrong with a "Christian " religion that encourages harassment and vindictiveness. This kind of behavior is what the Morgbots are about. The woman can not be trusted to keep her trap shut. Good that stormy and Jake will always be around when the children are with their grandmother. Sounds like gramps is on the program as he is no longer active.

Not that I'm telling either of you what to do. I'm a pretty overprotective person, which drives my children crazy sometimes.

It's really weird to hear stories like this because I live with my son and daughter in law. When they first married my daughter in law had a tough time with me because her mother never listened to her and was harsh and critical. It took about two years for us to get to the point where she felt safe in telling me when I annoyed her. And living together, we get into arguments. But I love her dearly, think she's the best thing that ever happened to my son, and absolutely feel that their relationship comes before mine with my son. (It's simply RIGHT that they become a unit and my son and I develop a new, and less involved relationship -- doing so means I did my job as a mother RIGHT.)

I read stories like this and I want to cry. All Jake's mother seems to have to hold on to for self esteem is her children's accomplishments. But she can't accept ALL their accomplishments, they have to be specific accomplishments. How sad for her. What a tragic, barren, fearful life she has. I don't condone a thing she has done, nor am I defending her at all, but my heart breaks for her. What a waste of human potential. I wish I knew a magic method to teach her that it's okay to find satisfaction and comfort in herself and her own life...

Wow. Reading your story is quite cathartic. I was a nevermo Catholic and DH an RM when we were married at BYU. Our stories could be identical except that my MIL is less extreme. Our confrontations have been far less severe; although she feels the same way your MIL does/did and I the same as you. I have had to put my foot down occasionally,in a tactful way, and that makes me wicked in her eyes. DH left the Morg and he and I are committed Christians so 'the church' was not able to thoroughly drive a wedge between us. HOWEVER the issue you describe; the husband sticking up for the wife has been a problem.

We live across the country from TBM inlaws so the problem has been minimal. But the 'sydrome' is still there. TBM family treats us like crapola; DH sucks up to them if only long distance on the phone.

At times mormon husbands haven't a clue on what to do...displease their mother or their wife. I think it depends on who whines the loudest. Or which one is geographically closer at the time. I know and Jake admits it..he never stood up for me to his mom..They get all screwed up when they are kids. The males think they are really important no matter what they do. Because they have been told this all their life. It's all they know.This doesn't sit well with intelligent, opioniated women...at all.

As for their mothers, well, the only thing they can attempt to control in their lives is their children. Their husband does the rest. So they make a career out of it. It's a sad career.

I feel that's what causes the problems. That and they never know when to SHUT UP!

stormy

How did you get to BYU? That has to be a story itself.

stormy

Sounds a lot like my ex mother in law. She was always critical and degrading to me. I was not a mormon,,my wife was totaly inactive. We got along great and had a good marriage,,until the mormons convinced her that she needed to go through the temple. She moved back in with mama,,we got a divorce,,mama was a happy camper.

Wow Stormy, after reading this, I'm surprised at how much effort you've put in to this relationship with your in-laws and making sure the boys know their grandparents. There's no way in hell I'd send them off for the summer at this point, especially not supervised by either you or Jake...and maybe shave it down to a long weekend. That's absolutely frightening what she did. I was picturing crazy family dynamics and religious differences, but not to this degree. Kudos to you for even entertaining sharing airspace with this woman. She doesn't deserve it and I wouldn't trust her for 2 seconds. I'm glad Jake is setting up some boundaries.

My mormon in-laws accepted me for the most part. Of course they wanted the temple wedding, wasn't happening. When our marriage hit the skids, there was certainly much blame placed on my shoulders around "the gospel," but never was I treated that outright poorly. Sending a note after the divorce was final? Geez, how low can you go?

My husband got an invitation to some singles thing for the Mormon church, picture of the temple on it and everything, when we were first separated. That pissed me off. It really did upset me, not that I wanted him back, but, yeah, it hurt. Dear lord, at least wait for the ink to dry. We were still technically married. Mormon is weird, hurtful.

In any case, to bridge the gap and have a relationship with the parents/grandparents is good, but given the venom-filled history, take baby steps. This just might not work out. Sometimes you have to cut your losses, I guess. I'm happy for you and Jake and what do they say? You don't just marry the spouse, you marry the family...you got a doozy on that one. :)

They aren't invited into our marriage at all. They will be invited to attend that's it. His Dad wants to throw a reception after on their turf. I think not. I clearly remember the first one...the basketball court. The potluck awful food. I'm easy to please where food is concerned..if I don't have to make it, I'll eat cardboard. But this was really bad. Better to have a sheet cake. Of course his mother was so pissed we were lucky to get that. I still laugh thinking about it...where but in the Morg do ten people chip in and buy 4 potholders?

It's important the boys know their grandparents but only on our terms not on theirs. No Mormon church stuff ever. If they don't play by the rules well no visits from the boys.

I will explain to the boys if that happens. And I sure don't want to have to do that.

I'm back from the Easter Vigil, the boys are asleep and the Easter bunny aka Jake has been busy hiding eggs. I sure hope he made a map since they are real eggs and the dogs will find any the boys miss.

Sure hope every one has a happy holiday whether you believe or not...enjoy the day and I hope it doesn't rain on anyone.


stormy

I don't have an LDS background, but I can relate to meddling relatives and parents who never, ever accepted their son's (or daughter's) choice in a spouse and eventually,l made their nonacceptance an element of why they divorced. In our case, it was much more subtle and devious, but clear to everyone.

When the "golden boy" or the "golden girl"-- who could do no wrong, married, mama could be a tiger protecting her young. Nothing was good enough for their now, adult children, and the snide comments, "looks" of disapproval, the insults, the comments "under their breath", said to the others in the room but directed at the spouse never stop. When the spouse would leave the room, the negative talk would start, and immediately stop when they came back in the room, all the while putting on smiles and acting like they never said anything rude.

When they divorce they continue with: I knew he/she shouldn't have married her/him, they ruined their life,(then they count the ways), then the rumors start, I knew she/he couldn't be trusted. They were: too young, too old, too controlling, too uppity,had the wrong kind of job, too this or that.
And you better not side with or stand up for the spouse! Then you got it double barrel.

Fortunately, I didn't have in laws like that and my mother loved my spouse for which I am very grateful. They are both gone now and we miss them greatly.

My best wishes to you -- that you can have some happy memories with the in-laws. You have an uphill battle with continually setting boundaries for acceptable behavior to curtail the meddling and inappropriate comments. I know how hard it is to love people who are so unkind and rude.
This time around, the two of you are clearly united in setting the new "rules" for the in-laws and how they interact with your family.
From what I have read, there is a good foundation right off the bat.
Now to not let your guard down and keep resetting the boundaries!
Life is a bowl of cherries, as they say, however, there are, of course, those pits! :-)

The woman is a bitch.

The problem with such people is that old age rarely mellows them out. They usually get worse.

You are a better person than I am.

If someone treated me like that I would never, ever let them back into my marriage.

Old age never mellows out anyone..if anything it just brings out all the sharp edges and you don't want to be in the way of a sharp edge.

At least I have a clear blueprint of what not to do when the boys get married..and what to do...Smile, say how lovely and if youhave any negative comments never say them.

stormy

I'm surprised that:

1. Jake allowed you to move in with them.
2. Jake didn't tell his mom where to get off the boat back then.
3. That you didn't stab someone.
4. That your horse didn't come shit in her bedroom.


Just sayin'....

Ron

Who knew how awful she would be? It surprised jake but we were too young to deal with it...i was hopeful that everything would be fine..
my parents after throwing a lovely wedding washed their hands of me..they were not happy he was mormon. They never wanted to see the boys so they were no better. It was a tough time for me. But that's the past..i won't live in it except to remember the lessons learned.

You can forgive but not forget...called forgiveness with protection..and it really works. It allows someone to acknowledge the nasty things that have happened in their lives and to move on..it takes time like all recovery does but gradually it comes.
When it does, it lets you still have feelings about it but validates them. You can 't ignore them, not healthy..


Time to enjoy the day...let the hunt begin..

stormy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2011 09:57AM by stormy.

My horse lived on the ranch with us...my horse was a purebred arabian he was my show horse....the ranch horses were quater houses who served a purpose unlike mine who in her opinion just wasted feed and pooped..unfortunately never in her bedroom.

Nevermind he worked on the ranch and so did I..

As far as stabbing someone..jake hid my handguns..

We were both too stupid then..

stormy

"4. That your horse didn't come shit in her bedroom."

I'm still trying to figure this one out...

At 83, my mother has definitely mellowed a lot. She's a great mother-in-law and an awesome grandmother. I watcher her interacting with my niece and nephew and sometimes I feel envious, because our relationship was so tumultuous.

My brother-in-law's Mom is amazing too. She comes over to our place at Christmas-time. We all love her.

My sister and her husband are very lucky to have amazing in-laws all-round.

So it is possible, but I guess we've all gotta work with what we've got, if we're not so blessed. LOL

True love prevails! I can really relate to TBM inlaws creating marital havoc...

My ex-inlaws boycotted our temple wedding because I had tattoos

I have three tattoos...i forgot his mom hates them and she she can only see on small one on my ankle...oh well jake likes them

stormy

Sign in difficulties resolved (thanks, Susan I/S) and just wanted to say to Stormy and Stormy's One and Only Ex - that didn't come out exactly right but I'll go with it - how inspirational and educational your stories are. The ongoing growth of you both, the chapters of parental attempts to destroy, all of it. I'm sure it's painful for you, and I really appreciate both of you for posting. I've learned a lot about myself and life from you. Thanks.

Oh, the reason I wanted to post on this thread - it's not just in-laws. "You killed your father", "I'll take your baby away" "you're a whore" - all gems from my own mother. None of it true, all of it devastating and warped me for a long, long time.

I realized I was holding on to the hurt so I had a legit reason to be angry when I read what Stormy wrote about forgiveness with protection. I think I got it right, anyway. I saw I was holding onto the ugly when it wasn't necessary.

Stormy, you've kept the lesson but given up the toxic - such a great way to live. Thanks for teaching me.

LVNV out

I'm happy the story helped...i learned that from the catholic priest who helped me work thru the worse time in my life, so far...he told me you never have to forget you need to remember to protect yourself..

What's sad he was suppose to do the 10am mass but was taken to our local hospital...jake was not working the er so I have no ideawhat happened..

Suppose we'll find out soon enough..

stormy

Ever see the movie "Monster-in-Law" with J-Lo in it?
Very cute.

I would have gaslighted your MIL so bad.

Peed on her rugs, tossed cat feeces in her closet, spilt things on her clothes, left fish to rot behind behind her cupboards....etc.....etc

You were too damn nice to the old battle ax.

My EX chose her father/mother/brothers/sister/aunts/uncles and anyone remotely related to her before me.
That's why she's my EX, and why I could not be happier.