10) The earth was created near Kolob over a period of 6000 years (six "days" in Kolob time), and then flung to its present solar system after the fall of Adam
9) There are many gods (also see #4)
8) Joseph Smith taught there is a Heavenly Mother.
7) Jesus, all angels, Lucifer, all demons, and all human beings are originally spirit brothers and sisters.
6) Defining marriage as between a man and a woman..or even between one man and one woman...does not preclude an individual man from having a 'marriage' with more than one woman (e.g. Russell Nelson, an LDS Apostle, is currently sealed to two women).
5) Heavenly Father had physical sex with Mary to sire Jesus' human body.
4) Heavenly Father had a Father, who had a Father, who had a Father.....
3) The Bible is corrupt...but the exact corrupt parts have never been identified...even though the LDS prophets have had a direct line to God since 1830.
2) Heavenly Father changes his mind when enough human pressure is exerted (e.g. blacks getting priesthood, earthly polygamy ending, etc)
1) Polygamy is still practiced and will continue to be in the hereafter. Mormon men may be sealed to more than one wife today....only one at a time. [edited for accuracy]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2011 09:54PM by jw the inquizzinator.

...it's just that these points are among those they'd rather not talk about and sweep under the proverbial rug.

Some are not really "doctrine" but opinions.

How about they're all complete fiction?

A lot of this stuff are things I grew up hearing about at one point or another. Most people just won't talk about it to investigators or new converts because it's considered "deep doctrine", which I guess is code for "really weird".

This is more of a list of top ten things jw the inquizzinator didn't know about as a member.

When I was a research assistant at BYU as an undergrad, my colleagues and I were not only aware of all these things, but they were also a topic of frequent discussion amongst ourselves and with certain faculty members.

Before my resignation I was in a bishopric, member of a high council, and an administrator at BYU, and these points and more were the subject of frequent discussion with friends, associates, and the occasional GA.

As a general principle, someone making a broad and vague statement about what "most Mormons" know or think or do is asserting something that really can't be supported. While it may be reflective of the OP's subjective experience, this is hardly evidence that this is generally the case.

So High C. if these things were a topic of discussion why in the world did you NOT research further to try to understand them. Did you sweep them under the rug? Did you say "We will all understand in the next life?" Well, how about NOW? I agree with blueskyutah. And by the way....I respect only those researchers who TRY to get answers. Seems you were not one of them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2011 09:53AM by honestone.

Fuck you, Charley. You're making a very uninformed assumption that I did not research these issues or that I tried to "sweep things under a rug," as you so tritely phrase it. Discussing the issues with friends, colleagues, and LDS Church officials is doing anything but what you so self-righteously presume to know.

Resigning my membership cost me my job at BYU and my career. I was 35 yrs. old and a college administrator/professor, as well as a High Councilor. That was 20 years ago and I am still suffering the financial and professional consequences.

You may want to read a post and think about it before you mouth off, pal. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

Since Mary was always described as a "virgin" I always figured god artificially inseminated her. But, that's maybe just me.

I would argue that core, foundational tenets of any belief system are "doctrine" and not "opinion."

High Councilor, I was in stake leadership for 10 years and then tossed aside like a dirty blanket when I started to question some of the inconsistencies in the doctrine. I had been a stay-at-home-mom all of those years (as prophets counseled), and failed to develop the career I should have had--instead placing my efforts into a church which had no place for my questions (and therefore, me).

I'm now in my 50's trying to have the career and salary I always wanted, but I've come to the realization that I will never have the time to climb the corporate ladder. And, those my age are already there, or some are retired. I feel TSCC sabotaged my working life and that I put great effort into a place with no results to show for it (TSCC).

Such nice words on Easter Sun. That's okay, I can take it. But here is the question, If you did bat things around with your buds, why didn't you tell us what you came up with? Or was the pressure to stick with them just too great???

I think it is wonderful you eventually saw the light, but isn't it odd that the LDS church does not openly allow discussion of matters that concern their flock. If they did many more would leave quickly instead of hanging on for so long to please family or friends or coworkers. Just read here and you will see what happens to those that wish to ask questions.

I am sure losing your job and position was painful. But if you are true to yourself isn't that feeling much better in the long run. So your advice perhaps would be to NOT take on positions like you had if you have doubts because in the end you may end up with financial hardship for putting up with the group who doesn't answer questions. I think the OP can make any list he would like to make. And so can you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2011 06:20PM by honestone.

High Councilor get off your high horse. Your past church callings are not impressive to me nor are your past associations with GAs. You are not better nor more qualified to determine what the Top Ten would be. Go and watch Letterman.... lose your uptight Attitude!

You may want to read my response to your equally uninformed circle jerk buddy, honestone, above.

...the "treatment" of gays, trying to turn them straight, is something few mormons have heard about in my neck of the woods. The imfamous Larry King interview, in which Hinkley denies the doctrine of eternal progression, is largely unknown amongst scandinavian mormons. Likewise for the mormon involvement in prop hate in california. The hoffman forgeries, the kinderhook hoax, the MMM and alot of other historical embaressments are unknown to many mormons, atleast where I live.

#1 is slightly wrong. A man can be sealed to multiple women, but can live with only one at a time in this life. FIL is sealed to 4 living women, but is divorced from three.

WOW! they 'actually' let a divorce X 3 guy get married/sealed???

I guess... the WIVES must have been whores/sluts...So he was justified, 'eh?

You'd think that his selection process 'Might' be flawed!

Love your number three...that says it all!

HC, you're really impressed with who you use to be, how about who you are today.

-are 'Eternal Progression (still) taught 'Openly'?

-What abt Blood Atonement? 'not doctrine, but just a practice?'

-Blacks are descended from Cain, their spirits were 'Less valiant'? (remember; Just 'the practice' have changed!)

-IF there is a (personal) God <like your friendly Grandpa who gives away Lots of presents> (with a <GASP> 'body') s/he has to 'live someplace'; you know.... sleep, potty, cook dinner... Just Like Us! so naming the place (kolob) is A BONUS/Blessing that only morbots enjoy!

-the "MAN" (husband) has RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE WIFE's EGGS! EVEN IF THEY STILL INSIDE HER!

-Sister Wives!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2011 02:43PM by guynoirprivateeye.

#5 and #1 - here's a quote I keep in my files about that:

Orson Pratt commented:
"We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His first Born, and another being upon the earth by whom He begat the tabernacle of Jesus, as his only begotten in this world.... We have also proved that both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time; ... If you do not want your morals corrupted, and your delicate ears shocked and your pious modesty put to the blush by the society of polygamists and their wives, do not venture near the New Earth; for polygamists will be honored there, and will be among the chief rulers in that Kingdom (The Seer, p. 172).
If none but Gods will be permitted to multiply immortal children, it follows that each God must have one or more wives (p. 158)."

...I realized today that Easter is bull shit.
It's BS that mankind is under blanket condemnation
It's BS that a "perfect sacrifice" could lift said condemnation by proxy anyway.
It's BS that a half-God half-man born of a virgin lived.
It's BS that He was resurrected.
It's BS that even if the above were true, my "debt" to Jesus is arbitrated by a third party corporation called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Why does the church love Easter? Because it loves the Lord? Or because Easter pays.

Easter is too commercialized. I agree. WAY too much Jesus profiteering going on. Just let me have my pure Easter of bunnies and chocolate.

I say so because as long as Mormons believe the frontally advertized absurdities, they're STILL vulnerable to believe the lesser-known ones when they find out.