I've been following your posts since you arrived here at RfM and I have a question.

First I'm impressed that you followed through and cancelled your baptism even if it took you twice :-)

I never cancelled but didn't believe when I joined. Stayed active for 13 years and then we left the church.

My question: Did the missionaries tell you that since you had now been taught the true Gospel by them that if you didn't join and died you would never be given the oppourtunity to be taught the Gospel on the other side?

When I was investigating and they taught how everyone that ever lived would have an oppourtunity to be taught the True Gospel either in this life or the next. So when they were pushing me to be baptized I said, "I think I'll wait until the other side and be taught there." They said that I would never be given an oppourtunity to be taught in the next life because I didn't accept the Gospel when taught on earth.

So I really joined as an insurance policy, a just-in-case it's true policy.

I'm glad that you saw it for what it was before getting baptized and then finding out.

my story is at http://www.exmormon.org/whylft37.htm

This is also what I was told in the early 70's. Now that you've heard the truth, if you don't act on it, you will not have a second chance.

Exactly right.

So... Missionaries are ruining our ability to convert in the after-life? What a bunch of jerks.

And everyone started catching on that I was not buying it, there was a huge chorus of "Now that you know the truth, if you don't accept in life, you will never be able to accept it in the afterlife".

when she cancelled her baptism and said she might join in the next life. I truly believed that and felt it was my duty to warn her.
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YIKES! I was so embarrassed/sorry at my bad behavior once I realized the church was a sham (almost 20 years later). No wonder we kind of grew apart as friends after that.

I reconnected with that friend on facebook a few years ago and apologized.

It's such an ugly belief. If that were true, why should the missionaries go and "share" the gospel, when the net result is to condemn most of the people they teach for not accepting the "gospel"?

It also makes NO sense. If someone doesn't truly believe, that shouldn't CONDEMN them. Clearly they didn't have enough good evidence or the spiritual confirmation to convince them to join. Theoretically, they might NEED the extra evidence they would supposedly get in the next life.

Again, what an ugly belief that they would be encouraged to accept it just out of fear that they would never have another chance.

That's what was taught too. I heard that Mother Teresa had been given a BoM and didn't convert so she would not be going to the CK. But that didn't keep the ignorant bastages from dead dunking my father who had taken the lessons twice and rejected TSCC both times.

Yep, and those of us who have had the gospel and turned away will not be given a second chance either. Same shoes.

I thought outer darkness was only for those who once believed then rejected the Mormon gospel. So, for those of us who were investigators, are we also condemned to outer darkness or, since we never accepted the Mormon gospel, would we make it to either the telestial or terrestrial kingdoms if we were good people? And I thought Mormonism with its one hierarchy was supposed to be less confusing that the myriad of Christian denominations!

I don't think those who rejected "the gospel" will be going to outer darkness, but they will not be exalted to the highest level of the celestial kingdom where god lives, either. They will be in the lower kingdoms and will spent eternity as servants.

Not that any of this is true, but your comment is way off, lillium.

Those that attain the lowest kingdoms are the ones who are served. They don't serve anyone but themselves.

Those that attain the highest kingdom don't get to live "with god", they become gods themselves and they get their own spheres around their own kolobs where they will create their own universes.

Nobody gets to live with god in mormonism. Only the new recruits get to stay with him and his wives until they go to their own earth, then you rinse and repeat.

I guess that's still better than living with the x-ian god, who warms his hands around the fires of the hell he created.

But they're both stupid theologies when you get down to it.

Helen, to that question, I do not recall them stating that me taking the lessons and then backing out would keep me from going into the kingdom or heaven for that matter. Nothing was ever stated that I'd not hear the gospel(if not becoming mormon)Nothing, as far as being led to cruelty coming my way, but, that becoming lds would secure it'd be better. In the lessons i was taught that I'd need to be in the "Celestial" mode in order to reach the highest of heaven's rewards. And I took it as meaning I need to become a mormon and to live my life righteously and follow all commandments in d & c. I was always informed(from the missionaries) that even being baptized presbyterian, I would need to be baptized mormon. The only thing or the main thing I went through after the 2nd time of canceling was the persistance, aggressiveness, the "CONCERN" they had for me." Can we come check on you?" "I care about you" Maybe instead of manipulating me into thinking I wasn't going to see the afterlife, they just thought they could keep "badgering" me, for the most part. Even when I stated "I'd still see my husband, etc. in heaven" (don't think it was perceived too well)even then,there was still that response "he won't know you, you won't be eternally married" there seemed to have ALWAYS been an answer that things would be better if I was baptized as well as baptizing my husband, grands, etc. It was stated when I'd canceled that it's the devil doing this to me. That was the extent of putting guilt on me, i guess you can say. The constant calling, texting, stopping by(small town) I reside just a few blocks from them. I think before it ceased between the 2nd cancellation and it totally stopping they were contacting me app. 5 times per week. Transfers took place 2 wks. or so ago, and I haven't heard from anyone.

Thank you Deb.

Ah, I think they had their focus on you getting baptized to be sealed to your husband. When I joined I was single.

How insensitive their statement about your husband not knowing you in the next life. Sounds like manipulation and playing on your loss to get you to join.

They also told me Satan didn't want me to join.

Just glad to be out of that church and I'm glad you saw it for what it is and didn't give in to the pressure.

I hope this answered your ? if not let me know...... it was a "wild ride" i'm telling you.

Control,,,Guilt,,Shame,,,You are not to worthy to be one of us...What bullshit!

That's never what was expressed here, it was always "the spirit is here" "you belong w/your husband." As a presby.,we were always told you would reunite w/your loved ones someday. I found out about rituals, i.e. temple things, patriarch blessing, etc. from someone else. I guess those things just aren't thought of until "AFTER" the dunking.

that the said person must have a witness of the Holy Ghost (Ya know the flying dove thingy). Seriously how the fuck were we able to tell if the individual in question had a flying bird moment. I always thought this was a load of donkey dung.

I did have one asshole companion that suggested that we "dust" our feet at the door of someone that offended him. For those not iniatied into the insane MOMO rituals this is basically condemning the person in the eyes of god because someone offended his servants. The assclown wanted me to preform the ritual on the porch. I told him to fuck off and not make a scene. Uggh, I still dislike that guy.

I hear what you are saying but then why do they baptize the dead?

honestone Wrote:
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> I hear what you are saying but then why do they
> baptize the dead?

They baptize the dead because no one can ever get to the celestial kingdom without baptism and if they died without hearing the gospel they need a chance to accept the "True Gospel".

Baptism is is an ordinance that can only be done in this life.

That's why the church stresses all the temple work, so all those dead people that want to accept the gospel can have a person here on earth be baptised for them. Baptism is an earthly ordinance.

They believe everyone either here on earth or in the next life will be taught the Gospel (Mormon) and have an oppourtunity to either accept or reject it. If the dead accept it thus the need for temple work by proxy here for the dead. If they reject it then they'll all go to the telestial kingdom or terestial kingdom. Only those who accept the Gospel as taught by the Mormon Church can go to the Celestial Kingdom.

Actually honestone you'll be in a better place than me in the next life because I was baptised Mormon and then left the Church. Maybe they'll let you come and visit :-)

Of course you don't really learn much of Mormon doctrine before baptism.

As I write this I cringe to think I was part of that Church for 13 years. Glad to be out.

I thought that was what the "washing of the feet" was for. That you were no longer contacted and that you were guaranteed to never have the chance to accept the gospel ever again. At least that is the way it works IIRC

was never told that of course lots of things i wasn't informed of. I've since found out from books and from y'all on this board.