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Posted by: King Benjamin ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 11:52AM

Hello everyone,

I left the Church in 2008, and I know the historical problems and am WELL aware of the spiritual abuse that occurs in the church. I know it's unique claims are false.

I need help getting my brain to deal with it. It probably sounds silly. I'm highly educated and can think rationally, but emotionally this is pretty rough.

If any of you know of a good book that can help me de-condition myself, I would love to hear about it. I don't need more information about Mormonism's history, but hopefully a book written by a mental health professional who deals with these issues.

Also, I live about 1 hour south of Provo...if any of you know any therapists in Utah, Juab or Sanpete County (I know there's a slim chance of this) who specialize in helping exMormons make sense of it all, please let me know.

Thanks everyone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2011 02:04PM by Susan I/S.

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Posted by: beulahland ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 12:17PM

Are you looking for something specific to having left the Mormon church? I can't be a ton of help there, but if you just want some general de-conditioning books let me know. I've read a few great ones.

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Posted by: Whip ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 12:18PM

Hey, instead of trying to tell yourself it's not true, let someone else do it :)

There were a few books that really helped me lose the last shreds of "but what if it's still true.." after I had rationally figured TSCC is fake.

Christopher Hitchens - God Is Not Great
http://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446697966
He's a great writer, and a world-reknown anti-theist and enjoyer of life.

Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion
http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618918248
Dawkins is very rational and this book goes great with the Hitchens book.

Both of these have an entertaining yet very informative way of writing and both promote morality without the need for someone to punish you. I listened to them in audio, but I suppose a book would do the same job.

You won't regret it, try one!

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Posted by: beulahland ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 12:23PM

I second the recommend for The God Delusion. Dawkins is brilliant and well-spoken, although if you don't want something with a heavy atheist lean then it's not the book for you.

I remember really liking Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults by Janja Lalich. Last time I read it was a few years ago, but it had some really good information.

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Posted by: King Benjamin ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 12:32PM

Thank you. I like the ones that specifically address leaving cults and authoritarian systems. I'm interested in the arguments about whether or not the Judaeo-Christian God exists, but that's not really my issue. I'm not afraid of God in particular. I'm afraid of the Church.

I know, it's crazy. That's why I need help.

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Posted by: beulahland ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 12:34PM

I grew up in a cult. A different one, but I understand the deprogramming process. It's scary at first.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 12:30PM

When I left the LDS Church, I changed my mind about living and believing Mormonism.
So, in that process, I made a list of items I wanted to change my mind about.
It's what I dubbed: Getting myself Un-Mormonized!
This is how I did it. Don't know if something would be helpful to you, but .....well, here goes.
It works best if you make your own list as it's what is in your head! :-)

This is a list/post I made several years ago with a little introduction.It's about taking your power back, and owning it and changing thinking scripts.

Here goes!


I read this from time to time to remind myself of how I took my personal power back, changed my thinking, set new healthy boundaries, and how I learned to make new my choices and change my behavior, and change how I viewed myself, and Mormonism.
It boiled down to: Self Talk and Automatic Thinking Scripts and how to change them.


Answering my own questions! This is part of how I got myself UnMormonized.-updated.


What did you change about how you think, act, behave, what you eat, wear, where you go, how you spend your time?

See the List below of Automatic Thinking Scripts - or Self Talk that I took apart one by one to take my power back. The process included my life growing up before I converted.

There are some I still want to change. They all have an emotional component that I needed to deal with and take responsibility for also. I did that by holding onto my self respect, self esteem, and self confidence and keeping a positive attitude. The process was enhanced by an attitude of gratitude. It was hard work! Nothing was going to destroy me! This was my life and I was going to learn from it and keep my head above water!


How did you do that?

Practicing being in charge of my own thinking - writing down the thinking scripts helped me deal with them one at a time.

How long has it taken to create a New World View?
How has it changed?

Changed almost totally. Still open to new ideas.
Began to create my new World View in the initial stages by working through the Self Talk and Thinking Scripts, and replacing them with what I was learning about the world and how I emotionally responded to them.


Do you think you have completed the process?
I do think I am mostly through the process of getting myself UnMormonized. Little things come up now and then, but they are minor and I do it with a good laugh, and keep on going!

Have you made peace with it?

I have made peace with all of my life, including Mormonism, the best I can, at this point. There is always something more to deal with, something that requires that I examine, understand and take responsibility for. It is never totally complete, but it's as close as I can get for now.
Resentments are few and far between. Anger is not an issue.
I have learned to change my mind about my World View and live with those who have a very different World View.
That is a big part of making peace with it, in my experience.

Self Talk, Automatic Thinking Scripts - removing, deleting, changing - the essence of taking my power back and owning it.

Little, by little, I began the laborious process of recognizing (some are so well ingrained they just kept repeating!) the thousands of Mormon scripts and found a way to hit a delete button and rewrite all of them. I had to change my "self talk" also from Mormonism to -- something else that was a confirmation of my self respect, self confidence and self esteem! And I was determined to do it!

It was fun! I was in charge. I owned my own power over my mind, my thinking, behavior, choices. I owned me --completely and I was going to take charge. I was in the drivers seat, no longer a passenger in that Mormon Mini Van hauling arse down the road on the way to the Celestial Kingdom!

I started ticking those scripts off and releasing myself from their imagined power. They had absolutely no power unless I gave it to them. What empowerment! How did I miss that?

I gave myself permission to take power over my thinking, behavior, and attitudes. No longer was any teaching in Mormonism, any requirement, any commandment, any counsel going to override and over rule my own good sense ,logic, reasoning and self respect.

Then, I determined I was going to do it with a sense of humor. That was the easy part. I love to laugh and have fun. There was no way I was going to take Mormonism so seriously that leaving it would take anything away from me! I was going to be the adult, not the child answering to and reporting to the father figure in the religion.

Here are just a few of the Mormon Scripts I changed my thinking about:

1. I could shop and buy anything and go anywhere on Sunday. No one cared and I did not care who saw me.

2. There was no requirement to say another prayer in the proper form again;no need to bless the food, or pray in secret either. I could pray or meditate if I wanted-- anywhere and anytime I wanted , but it was my choice, on my terms and in my own private way. My experiments with prayer were dismally disappointing, so I decided to rely on my own good sense and research instead!

3. I did not have to read, study, ponder, pray about the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Bible or any of the Mormon scriptures ever again. There was no such thing as "anti-Mormon" literature that I must avoid. The whole Internet and libraries were open to me. I could read anything with no fear. No book had a "bad spirit" -- that was just plain ridiculous and silly!

4. Prayer does not establish fact. Praying about the Book of Mormon to determine it is true is just plain silly. This is circle thinking. We know it's true but we must pray to know it's true. Say what? True .....what? After some study of religions and their history, it was all true God Myth!

5. I did not need to take the Ensign (or any other church magazine) and read it. The prophet's message was useless to me.

6. I did not have to attend church at any time for anything. Sacrament meetings were not of any interest to me anymore or anything else. Besides, I found the whole idea of so many people (long time friends and relatives) repeating their mantra's (IKNOWTHECHURCHISTRUE) so funny, I would not be able to keep a straight face ! Why didn't that bother me before? Hmmm. Time to do more thinking!

7. There was no such thing as "feeling the spirit" that was anything but warm fuzzies because people want to fit in and be accepted. It's the normal emotional connection to our personal experiences. II could "feel the spirit" of anything, or anywhere. It was not an exclusive to Mormonsm.. It was just part of human nature. Everyone "feels the spirit" , for instance, when the national anthem is sung, or a flag goes by or I see my kids do some kind of performance in school, I see a sunset that is gorgeous, and on and on and on. It's the normal emotional response to something beautiful, something/someone we love.

8. I did not have to have "callings". No more visiting teaching, or any other assignments. Whew! Done with that merry-go-round of busy work! I was going to be in charge of my calendar! I scheduled what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go. And did I get busy!

9. I did not have to report to anyone about anything. How nice! No more phone calls checking up on me! No more invasive interviews. I was so done with that!

10. I was not bound by some belief there were prophets or specially inspired leaders. These Mormon leaders put their pants on one leg at a time just like I did, and they certainly did not know me, neither did most of them even pay attention to what I said, let along respect my wishes, so I was not about to give in to their imagined discerning powers or any other powers or authority over me! And, NO. I did not have a problem with authority, but too many of them had a problem with their imagined authority throwing a fit or threatening me! I was not going to be a target for that absurd behavior ever again!

11. I could eat anything or drink anything I wanted. The Word of Wisdom was pointless nonsense that was not about health (scientific evidence shows other wise!) but only a rule for "obedience" as a programming technique to get people to pay tithing to go to the temple! Besides, it has never been lived by the Mormons as written in D&C 89 anyhow. Time to add more foods and drinks to my grocery list! That was FUN!

12. I could wear anything I wanted. No more regulation underwear. What was I thinking? I still laugh at myself prancing around in those goofy skivvies thinking they were necessary! No more obedience to the God of Regulation Skivvies!
What kind of a God controls by underwear anyhow! If I was going to wear undies, I would choose the kind I liked and nobody was ever going to tell me I had to wear them at night! Never could do that anyhow. That was a clue -- a big red flag, that I ignored. I actually took them off in my sleep! So I just stopped trying to wear the garmies them to bed! I was so obedient, I actually told the leaders in temple recommend interviews for years, and they never batted an eye. Ya, I know, why did I do that? What was I thinking? Time to change my thinking.

13. Now to the specifics about that ridiculous control by underwear nonsense: I was not bound by the outrageous idea that underwear was sacred and could not touch the floor. In fact, I could stomp on it and throw it around and feel good about it. What a concept! I was a little bit nuts in those days,wasn't I! Time to have a good laugh at myself!

14. I did not have to wear underwear under my bra anymore. OK. I know this is nuts, but I thought it was important at the time! Time for another good laugh!

15. I did not have to wear my underwear 24/7 - including to bed- never could do that one anyhow. Ya, ya, I know. This is totally off-the-wall nutzo and non-LDS crack up when I tell them this! YOU WHAT???

16. I could throw out the temple underwear and feel good about it - that FEELS GREAT!!!And I did. Hauled the whole plastic bag of those things out to the garbage can, threw them in with the stinky trash knowing they would go in the land fill with the most disgusting mess you could imagine! Ahh, now that feels -- wonderful!! I laughed for days about that! That was symbolic. Garbage in, garbage out!

17 All of the temple ceremonies were bastardized Masonic rituals and not binding. Not binding. Yup. That's it. They have no power. What a relief! Done with that goofiness!

18. I was not required to go to the temple regularly and play dress-ups. That is exactly how I felt. Just like a little girl wearing my great grandma's old clothes! k

19. The green apron and temple robes mean nothing. They are just silly costumes for the temple play that have no more importance to me! Done with that nonsense too!

20. Prayer circles in the temple with women's faces veiled are silly nonsense.

21. I was no longer subjected to that invasive, washing and anointing rituals in the temple. Fortunately, that has been changed, and I would hope that our exposure here on this board writing about that inappropriate, demeaning rituals (and I did my share many times!) was the impetus for them to change it and not subject another person to that invasion of the naked body ever again!

22. I did not need to do genealogy and have my dead relatives baptized and have temple rituals done for them. No more postmortem conversions! It does seem a little silly now!

23. I no longer had to compartmentalize a "testimony" from the rest of my life. This was an important door that opened. I was now in charge of all of my thinking -- Mormonism no longer shut the door on how I thought about anything! No guilt, no fear, no shame for .....THINKING!!

24. I did not need to use faith to believe in the Book of Mormon and the Joseph Smith story - Mark Twain said: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
I wanted something factual, substantial, something that held up to scrutiny to place my faith in and I would never gain believe something on faith alone!

25. I was no longer subjected to those intrusive, out of order, interviews by bishops and the stake presidency to get a temple recommend. Done with that nonsense too! Those men have no authority over me anyhow! How do they live with themselves asking such personal sexually related questions anyhow. That's just way over the line of decency!

26 I no longer needed to pay "an honest tithe." No more money down the Mormon drain! I was done with giving them money to support their silly claims!

27. There was no priesthood power that I was required to follow or submit to. This was great. I was no longer subjected to some priesthood holder with his halo askew (arrogant and condescending) telling me what was best for me! They could go pester someone else who cared!

28. I was no longer subjected to demeaning attitudes and treated like a child. Mormonism kept me thinking I was a "child of God" and subjected to a "Heavenly Father" etc. and I realized I was not behaving as an adult. That must be what accounted for why so many Mormon women talked like little girls in wispy, sweet, soft syrupy voices. Time to grow up ladies! As a convert I never developed that ...voice!

29. There was no need for guilt over anything. There was no need to buy any guilt tickets for any guilt trips I didn't want to take! Done with that too! I was not going to do guilt again, but I would do: responsibility. Big difference.

30. I could spend my money anyway I wanted. I didn't have to budget tithing, building fund donations, fast offerings, missionary fund (or get a job to pay for two missions for two of my kids) ever again! Done with that too! Of course, there were some "blessings" as all that $$$$ to the Mormon church was considered a charitable contribution on our tax returns and we got hefty refunds which I called: Tithing Refunds!

31. I could think anything I wanted. Imagine that. I didn't have to think a certain way, fearful of some evil influences getting in my brain and tempting me. There was no Satan/Lucifer, or some other spirit on a mission to tempt me and get control of my mind and my soul. Done with that silly notion too!

32. A little research into the history of gods showed that the Bible was figurative myth and legends, parables, etc around some still standing places - Thank you Joseph Campbell and others. that made it much easier to change the thinking scripts from my early youth also: "Jesus Loves You, This I know, for the Bible Tells ME So". I can still sing that song over 60 years later!.

33. There was no judgment bar that I needed to be concerned about in an after life. In fact, there was no real evidence for an after-life at all. The Celestial Kingdom etc.(along with all others) was imaginary a clever creation to put fear into people to control their behavior and usually ,get money out of them.
! I could live this life to the fullest and not be concerned about what would happen next. I could live in the here and now. What a fantastic concept. No more fear of punishments. No more working for an award after I die. That placed the greatest importance on me to find a way to make this life the best I could. didn't need a hope of an after life. I had this one!

34. There was no Heavenly Father watching over me or angels recording my attendance in church - no more feeling paranoid!! No more leaders watching me, paranoid that I would share why I didn't believe.

35. Heavenly Father was not a resurrected man with a body. (Click-delete!)

36. I could discard the "testimony" as it was based on fraud, a clever myth, around some warm fuzzy feelings!

37. I did not need a savior for anything. (Click-delete!)

38. There is no need to believe in any "here after." I am free to live in the present.

39. Faith and works or grace were not necessary to believe either.

40. I could discard the notion that "the church is perfect, but the people aren't."
(Silly notion anyhow as there would be no church without people.)

41. There is no such thing as a book having a "bad spirit" and I can read anything I choose.

42. I could read anything at any time I wanted

43.. The terms Apostate and Anti-Mormon are emotionally charged words to discourage dissent from Mormonism by members with their persecution complex set on high! More paranoia! Not playing that game anymore either!

44. I no longer needed a "testimony" by faith of things that made no sense in the first place.Done placing faith in magical thinking, and supernatural, metaphysical claims.

45. I was no longer a second class citizen to be dismissed by the priesthood. That was a big one. I was just as important as any male. I was not relegated to being a mother as the greatest "calling" and given rules and parameters for my life as a female. Done with that too!

46. I was no longer bound by the restrictive role placed on me as a Mormon female. That was the impetus to write an essay on The Role of Women in Mormonism.

47. I could say out loud that Joseph Smith lied, and Mormonism is a total fraud and they do not tell the truth. At first, my lips felt funny, I was so well programmed that I had a strange reaction to claiming JS was a lying little snot nosed brat and Mormonism was BS! I had been taught that Satan was making me say such things,, but I got over that one in a hurry. Discarded the notion of that imaginary Satan and I had no more problem with what I said about Joseph Smith Jr. or Mormonism !

48. I am not bound by some temple covenant that says I am to "avoid all loud laughter" and can laugh all I want, as loud as I want at anything, and especially at Mormonism! And laugh I do!

49. Mormonism is not necessary for my happiness. Neither is any "ISM" or Christianity or any other God belief. I realized that I don't need some outside influence directing my life. I am perfectly qualified to do that myself and that is how I will proceed!

50.. I am free at last.

51 . I can resign my membership and know I am OK. and I did!

52. Life outside the Mormon World View Box is beautiful, full, and joyful.

53. There were no commandments -- and I can ignore any inference that I need to be doing this or that to please some imaginary deity in a robe in the sky!

54. I will laugh my way out of these beliefs. They are just too funny to take seriously.
Besides, it sure beats the alternative of being depressed! I won't even give that bunch of believers the power to make me depressed. I refuse

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Posted by: imaworkinonit ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 01:09PM

I learned a lot from Steven Hassan's website ( freedomofmind.org ), and from his book Combatting Cult Mind Control. He is a mental health professional/cult exit counselor. And he does do some stuff on the phone, I think.

His stuff really helped to know that a lot of the practices of the church were controlling and destructive and could be used to influence people to believe even WEIRDER things than the LDS church teaches. And the ex-members of virtually any cult will have similar emotional problems dealing with the exit. Rather than those issues being evidence that you have made a mistake in leaving your religion (which a cult will lead you to believe), those emotional reactions are evidence that the organization has been messing with your mind and emotions.

Also I visited a JW recovery forum like this one that pretty much reinforced that same point. I have also read exit stories of people leaving other controlling religions. All of those added to my knowledge of how the mind and emotions can be manipulated by destructive religions.

As far as the Judeo/Christian beliefs, The Age of Reason, by Thomas Paine pretty much blew the Bible and Christianity out of the water. Which is fine, because Paine showed it to be utterly unreasonable.

I also read books on:

Control/abuse (Patricia Evans has written multiple books on the subject) and I think MOST excult members will need some training on setting boundaries and learning to trust their own perceptions rather than yeilding to self-proclaimed authority figures or threats.

Self-help (honoring your own needs, how to take care of yourself and life coaching/create-the-life-you-want type of books)
Some books I liked:

Simple Abundance
Anything by Martha Beck (exmo extraordinaire), especially Oprah Magazine articles (online, BTW)
What Color is Your Parachute
The Artist's Way (and you don't have to be an artist, BTW)
Take time for your Life (Richardson)

plus plenty of Hokey books that featured the "law of attraction", but had some very worthwhile things to say among the hogwash.

Pshychology of happiness/depression reading (and guess what? Trying to be perfect or joyful all the time doesn't ACTUALLY make you happy! Surprise!)

Art of Happiness (Dalai Lama)
The Happiness Hypotheses
(sorry I forgot the rest, but I read a really good book on neuroplasticity . . . how we can change our brain with meditation and conscious retraining to overcome habitual depression and other issues. . . maybe that was the Happiness Hypotheses, but I think there is another good one I forgot about)

Most of the books I read after I had researched myself out of the church itself had to do with healing and creating the life I want, and trying to understand what makes people tick. I wanted to understand how I could have been so thoroughly hoodwinked and emotionally hogtied to the church, even after I KNEW it was bogus.

But I do think that therapy IS helpful, if you can find a good one. Steven Hassan or someone specializing in cults or exmormons would be good. There was an exmormon in Ogden by the last name of Gardner (he was in the Movie "Religulous", and I cant remember his first name). But that too far for me to go. Again, I wonder if any of them would do therapy over the phone.

Good luck. You'll get through this!

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Posted by: Feijoada ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 02:03PM

Why do you still live in intellectually impoverished mormo-Utah? Mormo-icons are so ubiquitous--mormo-stiffnecked, mormo-arrogant mormo-imbeciles and their mormo-goofy mormo-propaganda, mormo-media and pseudo-Christian, spired, but uninspiring, mormo-buildings.

You might consider joining non-mormo society elsewhere, free of relics of your past that are holding you back. Moro-morons.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 02:17PM

I know my therapist actually does do therapy over the phone in certain circumstances. He is an exmo and in Cache Valley.

As for me--the way I dealt with the emotional detachment was--I went inactive long before I realized I didn't believe. I went inactive for "survival" reasons in terms of I didn't want my marriage to fall apart and my children to be ostracized because of it. I spent at least 9 years just surviving. I would go back once in a while and sit on the couch in the foyer and listen to sacrament meeting trying to find my answers for the mess my life was. I was working 2 jobs and raising 2 children. I didn't have time to really examine my beliefs, but I had a LONG vacation from thinking about it. One day, it just ALL fell apart. I have no emotional "issues" attached to mormonism any longer except that my daughter is TBM right now.

It may sound simplistic, but for me, it WORKED. I live in Utah and have no problems living here.

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Posted by: WinksWinks nli ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 03:02PM

I would use a specific morg-recovery resource every day.
The best I can do is to read here and other former mormon resources. Rereading cult definitions and any new material I can find on the subject. Also researching things like family dynamics, dysfunctional relationships, interpersonal styles, personality types... Anything to learn about how to function in the real world.

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Posted by: matt ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 04:08PM

IMO it will be a good book for you, the author Fawn Brodie was a Mormon with links to the top and access to the church archives. She was a brilliant researcher and a top author.

Amazon will have it.

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Posted by: King Benjamin ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 07:24PM

I appreciate everyone's support. I've received excellent responses, and I'll follow up with many of them.

Thanks again.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 08:35PM

I also had a mismatch emotionally with what I was finding out factually. For me, it was just a matter of continuing to read and eventually the emotions adapted to what I knew.

Sure, you are going to be disillusioned. You will feel duped and maybe angry at yourself for buying into it. Just know "the lie" is a human condition. You just happened to stick your head high enough to be able to see it.

Now when you read Orwell's 1894 you will see how it all works. When you read Joseph Campbell's books on mythology, you will understand the role of religion in helping people have answers.

Three essential reads for where you are now:

Regarding Mormonism, read No Man Knows My History by Brodie. Sure, she speculates a bit but when you do fact checking that should clue you in about the Mormon religion.

Next, I suggest Age of Reason by Thomas Paine. It is short and to the point. It's on line and in every library. He points out the obvious about the Bible. You will be surprised you didn't see the problems with the Bible before. That one book opened my eyes about Christianity.

The next is a very important fun read. It is Sagan's Demon Haunted World. At least read the first half of the book (the second is about the importance of science in schools among other things). It is brilliant. It has a bologna detection kit that will stick with you. It will wean you off making emotional decisions about factual things and give you guidelines about magical thinking and supernatural claims.

Enjoy the quest. Enjoy the process of coming to terms with it all! There are hundreds of important books and authors who have lived who provide insight on all of this. It was always in the books but as Mormons we only paid attention to the books we thought were faith promoting so we could keep the faith delusion alive. That was our mistake and obstacle in living an authentic life.

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Posted by: spaghetti oh ( )
Date: April 25, 2011 09:52PM

I'm a nevermo... but I still have my own personal craziness.

I remember someone once suggesting, on this very forum, 'How To Be An Adult' by David Richo as a good 'getting your shit together' guide.

From that suggesting, I have since read two of Richo's books and I have found them to be excellent. Very to the point. I don't think that he says anything overly different than any other good psychologist-author but the WAY in which he says it cuts right into me.

It's difficult to know if it would do the same to you or anyone else ... but, there you go.

Good luck finding something that works for you. :-)

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