Like many mormons, I knew very little about the Easter celebration. I didn't know about Palm Sunday, Seder Suppers, or Maundy (I am probably getting all this wrong because I STILL don't know about them...I'm going to research them soon, though). Why are mormons not taught and why do they not celebrate the events of the last days before and after Christ's death?

I had an Epiphany today and realized why. The GAs don't want the sheeple to start focusing on Christ and Christianity and forget about them and what they are saying. Christ is a diversion away from obedience and conformity. Focusing on Christ (even just for a few weeks in March and April) is a slippery slope away from the gospel of 'Follow the Prophet'.

The mormon church makes lip service at Eastertime and some wards may have great speakers, but Mormons know VERY LITTLE about Easter.

I'm confused. Your subject says "observation about Easter" but then you start talking about baby jesus.

easter has nothing to do with baby jesus. that's just a recent hijacking of this mellenia-old spring fertility festival.

Apparently it's you who knows "very little about easter."

(not that i'm defending the GAs)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2011 12:21PM by chulotc.

Read the original post and couldn't find any mention of baby Jesus. Did I miss something?

No mention of baby jesus

stormy

Where do you get that Easter isn't about Jesus? Of course it has pagan customs, but that doesn't mean that it isn't also about Jesus too.It also incorprates elements of Passover and that is where we get the date. Religions borrow from each other all the time. And you are right that it has nothing to do with baby Jesus. That would be Christmas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2011 12:26PM by bona dea.

x-mas also has nothing to do with baby jesus. again, the roman catholic church hijacked the winter solstice festival in an attempt to placate the pagans who had been celebrating this time of year for thousands of years prior to the most recent version of the "savior deity" they were forcing on people through brute force.

religions may borrow from each other, but x-ianity is 100% stolen from prior myths of savior deities with 12 disciples and death/resurrection stories: mithra, horus, tammuz, etc...

on december 22nd the sun reaches it's southern-most point in the sky, then doesn't move for three days, then on december 25th it begins it's journey toward its northern-most point in the sky (summer solstice). that is where bronze-age superstitious alpha males borrowerd their death/resurrection myths from.

no baby jesus necessary...

chulotc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> x-mas also has nothing to do with baby jesus.
> again, the roman catholic church hijacked the
> winter solstice festival in an attempt to placate
> the pagans who had been celebrating this time of
> year for thousands of years prior to the most
> recent version of the "savior deity" they were
> forcing on people through brute force.
>
> religions may borrow from each other, but x-ianity
> is 100% stolen from prior myths of savior deities
> with 12 disciples and death/resurrection stories:
> mithra, horus, tammuz, etc...
>
> on december 22nd the sun reaches it's
> southern-most point in the sky, then doesn't move
> for three days, then on december 25th it begins
> it's journey toward its northern-most point in the
> sky (summer solstice). that is where bronze-age
> superstitious alpha males borrowerd their
> death/resurrection myths from.
>
> no baby jesus necessary...

Sorry, but that idea that everything in Christianity is stolen is nonsense. They did borrow a lot, but hardly everything. I d agree that the Christmas story is mostly myth, but I believe the crucifixion happened at Passover. I am not a believer in the resurrection, but I do believe there was an historical Jesus and that is also the opinion of most scholars. BTW ancient history is my field and I have done a great deal of reading on the subject. I agree with you up to a point, but you are carrying it too far and oversimplifying things. I'd also like to point out that there are more differences between the so called savior gods and Jesus than there are similarities and if you got your info from Freke and Gandy, Achyra S, or the crucified savior book, they made up a lot of stuff out of whole cloth. Look up the 'savior gods' on Wiki or in a good mythology books and you will find that a lot of the crap they write is garbage. They have versions of the myths that no one else is aware of. I wondr why? Maybe they made it up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2011 12:41PM by bona dea.

And I know it originated from a Pagan holiday and has basically been turned into a Christian holiday celebrating the resurrection and last days of Christ. For most Christian churches, the Easter season is celebrated. My kids' friends were giving up things for Lent and my kids had no idea what Lent was! Mormons are clueless about Easter and I wonder why the GAs haven't decided to have us celebrate it more fervently.

My question is why has the LDS church not jumped on the 'Christian Easter Celebration Bandwagon'?

(I don't want to argue whether or not Christianity is absurd).

Easter originally had nothing to do with Jesus. Any holiday celebrated based on where the moon is can generally be attributed to paganism. Both of the major Jesus holidays were pagan solstice festivals that were hijacked and recycled for Christianity. That's not to say I'm discrediting anyone's faith. Jesus may have been born and then died and then resurrected, but it's pretty well documented that the dates when we celebrate those events is just an ancient system of bringing people over to a new belief system. Just like the Mo's like to say they're Christian, because it's familiar to new members.

On that note, the pagans ripped most of their holidays off from the Egyptians, who most likely ripped them off from someone else. Religious leadership is all about plagiarism. Easter these days in Western culture is most definitely about Jesus, even if we do celebrate it with bunnies and eggs.

beulahland Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Easter originally had nothing to do with Jesus.
> Any holiday celebrated based on where the moon is
> can generally be attributed to paganism. Both of
> the major Jesus holidays were pagan solstice
> festivals that were hijacked and recycled for
> Christianity. That's not to say I'm discrediting
> anyone's faith. Jesus may have been born and then
> died and then resurrected, but it's pretty well
> documented that the dates when we celebrate those
> events is just an ancient system of bringing
> people over to a new belief system. Just like the
> Mo's like to say they're Christian, because it's
> familiar to new members.
>
> On that note, the pagans ripped most of their
> holidays off from the Egyptians, who most likely
> ripped them off from someone else. Religious
> leadership is all about plagiarism. Easter these
> days in Western culture is most definitely about
> Jesus, even if we do celebrate it with bunnies and
> eggs.

Easter is celebrated when it is because Jesus died on passover. Passover may have some pagan origins and certainly the bunnies, eggs etc are not Christian. I agree that Christmas is pretty much pagan.

There has been no evidence ever provided to support the idea that even a historical jesus ever existed. There are no contemporary accounts of his life, even if it was just some rabbi.

And "most scholars" do not agree that there was a historical jesus. I'd love to see your source for that quote.

And yes, 100% of christianity has been stolen from prior myths. Please name one aspect of Christianity that is unique and does not appear in prior religions.

Not to mention the concept of resurrection is moot in christianity. According to the new testament, jesus didn't die, and he didn't come back to life. He simply chilled out in hell for a couple days, then came back to earth for a little while, then went up to heaven. There was no death, and certainly no sacrifice. What exactly was sacrificed? Nothing.

X-ians believe jesus is still around. He never ceased to exist, therefore nothing was sacrificed. Nothing was lost at all. He went on vacation, returned, and then went to heaven. All of which is moot if you believe your god is omnipresent...

Whatever historical first century Jew that may have been executed in Roman occupied Palestine had to do with the subsequent Pagan Christian solar myth is probably about as relevant to that myth as the existence of a historical George Washington is to the myth of the cherry tree and the dollar thrown across the Potomac. http://www.pocm.info/

Otremer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever historical first century Jew that may
> have been executed in Roman occupied Palestine had
> to do with the subsequent Pagan Christian solar
> myth is probably about as relevant to that myth as
> the existence of a historical George Washington is
> to the myth of the cherry tree and the dollar
> thrown across the Potomac. http://www.pocm.info/

There is some truth in that, but the fact that myths grew up about both of them doesn't mean they didn't exist or that we know nothing about them

Earl Doherty , who does not belive Jesus was real, said that almost no scholars agree with him. Real historians like Michael Grant and Bart Ehrman who are atheists have said that the idea that Jesus didn't live is not accpted by scholars. Sorry, but this is my field and you are wrong. Sure you can find people who promote the Jesus myth theory but most of them have degrees in unrelated fields such as German[Wells] geology[ a guy with a PHD who wrote an article in an atheist magazine] or they are vague about their qualifications such as Achyra S or Doherty. Freke and Gandhi are new age gurus. I am not a believer, I am a history teacher and I am tired of this discredited nonsense being passed off as scholarship. It is far from scholarship and is in the category of "The Da Vinci Code" or "Chariots of th Gods"Sorry, but you are wrong.

To Otremer:

Word...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2011 01:00PM by chulotc.

To Bona Dea:

Appeal to authority much? You do realize that's a logical fallacy, don't you?

So we're all supposed to take Earl Doherty's word that most scholars don't agree with him?

Sounds like Kolobian logic to me.

And oh, this is your field and so we're wrong. Gosh, how could I be so silly to question your expertise?

If you're making a positive claim that a historical figure named Jesus of Nazareth was nailed to a cross in the 1st century by Romans at the request of superstitious hebrews, please, pretty please, with sugar on top: provide your evidence.

Just saying a bunch of guys "agree with each other" that "there probably was a historical jesus" is not evidence.

chulotc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Bona Dea:
>
> Appeal to authority much? You do realize that's a
> logical fallacy, don't you?
>
> So we're all supposed to take Earl Doherty's word
> that most scholars don't agree with him?
>
> Sounds like Kolobian logic to me.
>
> And oh, this is your field and so we're wrong.
> Gosh, how could I be so silly to question your
> expertise?
>
> If you're making a positive claim that a
> historical figure named Jesus of Nazareth was
> nailed to a cross in the 1st century by Romans at
> the request of superstitious hebrews, please,
> pretty please, with sugar on top: provide your
> evidence.
>
> Just saying a bunch of guys "agree with each
> other" that "there probably was a historical
> jesus" is not evidence.


Whatever. You have hijacked a thread on why Mormons do not celebrate Easter and shown your ignorance of history. I'm done. BTW, Doherty is on your side and he is certainly not the only one who has said that scholars believe in an historical Jesus. If you are intersted in educating yourself, read Ehrman, Michael Grant, Paula Frederickson,Michael White, Paul Johnson, Bruce Chilton, Amy Jill Levine, Will and Ariel Durrant, and Albert Schweitzer. There are dozens of others, but these would be a good start. Now let's get back to the original thread and the origianl question. Hijacking is not cool. I apologize to the OP for my part..

To Bona Dea:

As far as I know, we never left the topic. The question was, "why don't mormons emphasize jesus on easter?"

My answer was, "because Easter has nothing to do with jesus."

That's when the fireworks started.

Side note: all the years I attended the Kolobian church they always emphasized jesus on easter. So this whole thread is grasping at straws in my humble opinion...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2011 01:14PM by chulotc.

Oh yeah, thanks for the list of authors. Wouldn't it be simpler to point out the -best piece- of evidence that those "authority figures" have uncovered as to the likelihood that a historical jesus figure was nailed to a cross by romans in the first century?

You'd think if those "authority figures" had a compelling case you wouldn't dodge the question by throwing books at us. Just point out the "best piece of evidence" in those books and we can apply the rules of logic to see if it stands up.

Thanks! :)

I think you're all going off on a tangent not intended by Tauna. Regardless of the origin of Easter, it seems that Tauna is wondering why mormons don't observe Easter like other Christians do. Interesting question. I was thinking about this recently as well.

In my opinion, it might have something to do with the leadership not wanting to focus on Christ (like Tauna mentioned), but I also feel that the Christian belief of the redeeming value of Christ's resurrection (myth or not) does little for mormons. In order to gain celestial glory in the mormon church, the resurrection is not nearly enough. Beyond the resurrection, one needs to get baptized into an obscure religion based in the intermountain West. Then, one needs to pay a monetary fee to this obscure intermountain West-based church in order to enter a big building where certain handshakes and chants are learned while wearing bizarre clothing. I've skipped over a few important steps like not drinking tea, but then, and only then, can one meet Jesus. Absurd, isn't it?

exkoug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you're all going off on a tangent not
> intended by Tauna. Regardless of the origin of
> Easter, it seems that Tauna is wondering why
> mormons don't observe Easter like other Christians
> do. Interesting question. I was thinking about
> this recently as well.
>
> In my opinion, it might have something to do with
> the leadership not wanting to focus on Christ
> (like Tauna mentioned), but I also feel that the
> Christian belief of the redeeming value of
> Christ's resurrection (myth or not) does little
> for mormons. In order to gain celestial glory in
> the mormon church, the resurrection is not nearly
> enough. Beyond the resurrection, one needs to get
> baptized into an obscure religion based in the
> intermountain West. Then, one needs to pay a
> monetary fee to this obscure intermountain
> West-based church in order to enter a big building
> where certain handshakes and chants are learned
> while wearing bizarre clothing. I've skipped over
> a few important steps like not drinking tea, but
> then, and only then, can one meet Jesus. Absurd,
> isn't it?

My point exactly and why I apologized to Tauna. I didn't start it but I contributed to the hijacking of the thread.

A seder is a jewish thing, an observance of passover. Seder is a hebrew word that means order, and there is a special order and ceremony to the meal. I have never heard of a christian "seder supper" and I doubt any such thing would be valid in terms of an actual seder.

I figure we were all forced to stay 'on topic' enough in LDS sunday school classes. This forum lets us discuss topics however we want...no harm done.

Exkoug...good points. I always felt pretty confused by the mormon version of the atonement. It was always like "Jesus died for you BUT you have to still do XYZ to make it valid". It always raised more questions than it answered.

Policeman: Hey you! Yeah, you! Get over here!
Human: What's up?
Policeman: You're wearing a white shirt, that's what's up!
Human: So?
Policeman: Well, wearing white shirts is against "the law."
Human: Says who?
Policeman: Says the King.
Human: What king?
Policeman: Your king. Now you must be punished.
Human: I've never even heard of a king. What's the punishment?
Policeman: Death.
Human: Death?! I don't want to die!
Policeman: You don't have to. The king killed his son.
Human: What? He killed his son? How terrible. What does that have to do with anything?
Policeman: Well, the king knew you'd eventually wear a white shirt, but he chose to outlaw them anyway. So in order to forgive you, he killed his son.
Human: That's great! So I'm free to go?
Policeman: Not quite. First you have to say you believe me.
Human: I believe you.
Policeman: Now you're free to go...


Yeah, I can see why this doesn't come up much in Kolobian churches... It's pretty dumb.

Haha! I like it. Yeah, it's all pretty absurd. The mormom version adds even more layers of dumbness to it. Glad this doesn't exist in the Kolobian church!!

In our ward it was a nonsensical TESTIMONY meeting

Here was my BYU exam schedule for my last Winter term:

Tuesday: last day of classes
Wednesday, Maundy Thursday, Good Friday: reading days
Holy Saturday: 9 am exam
Easter Sunday: church
Easter Monday: 9 am exam and 1 pm exam
Tuesday, Thursday: last 2 exams

So, my Good Friday and Easter Sunday were preparing for 3 exams, one on Holy Saturday and 2 on Easter Monday.

In public schools in Texas, we got Good Friday and Easter Monday as regular holidays. At Mormon-BYU, they were either reading days or a day to take two finals.

Most schools (except, ironically, parochial schools) have Good Friday off. North Dakota is the only state where it is a state holiday, and all state offices are closed. And bars must close at midnight on the Thursday before good Friday. Kind of like Mormon dances on Saturday night.

I imagine somebody could challenge the legality of Good Friday state holiday on church-state grounds, but who wants to lose a paid day off from work?