In former UK bishop Steve Bloor’s sacrament talk he said "the General Authorities have warned the Bishops, through the Stake Presidents, to “Prepare for a mass exodus from the church, even from the leadership.”

When an apologist questioned Steve about this statement he responded by saying this

“I know nothing more about the original source other than we received the instruction as Bishops in a training meeting by the Stake President.

At the time, we were told it was privileged information.

I now know that members were already leaving the Church in huge numbers, so it wasn’t as much a prophecy or prediction, but a statement of fact. An observation of a current trend or event occurring as a consequence of members gaining access to more information via the internet as well as books.”

So I took a look at recently released statistical information on the number of church units in the UK. (http://newsroom.lds.org/country/united-kingdom and http://cumorah.com/index.php?target=main&wid=230) These are the numbers for the last decade.

Year.......# units
2002........322
2004........357
2006........373
2008........347
2010........333


There has been an 11 percent drop in the number of church units in the last four years. On the face of it this looks like a massive decline in the church in the UK.

Are there any Brits here who can comment on this? Are huge numbers leaving or have they decided to increase the size of church units? It’s hard to believe the church in the UK is 10 percent smaller than it was 4 years ago.

the last time I was there average attendance was about 30 in ours and perhaps 70+ in the neighbouring ward.

I remember the very early days when we were crammed into private rooms, then we hired a Masonic hall (no kidding) and after a local dance hall. Finally, after booming attendance of over 100 in the 70s a chapel was built.

I recall it has been all downhill from there.

When I visited church in the US I thought I was at Stake conference :-)

Briggy

I haven't gone to church at all here in the UK. However, my parents came to visit after my son was born and they did mention that the ward was very small. There were also a few military men that went to that ward and we live about 20-30 minutes from base. So if they are driving 30 minutes out of their way to go to church there must not be a ward closer to base. Which kinda surprised me.

In short, yep!

Average ward attendance is less than 100
Converts do not stay
Youth leave activity when they reach 18

It is definitely shrinking

More people go to watch Manchester United on a Saturday than now attend Sacrament meeting on a Sunday...

Of course, even though I prefer Liverpool, if the choice was between an LDS sacrament meeting and a match at Old Trafford for Manchest United, I'd pick ManU, too.

I've wanted to let you know that 18 months ago I had serious doubts about the church. I read your story. The part about the America's Cup was a "revelation" to me. My best, most poignant, special manifestation of the "spirit" came to me as a result of a sports team's accomplishments. Reading your story and thinking about my experience, helped me understand the implication of my team being "true". I was then able to reach a more logical explanation for those feelings.

Of course Science was the real kicker and the reason I was reading in the first place.

Anyway, I've always wanted to thank you for coming out in such a public manner. I know it cost personal relationships but it helped me and I'm sure many others.

Personally, I think the main challenge for the Church in the UK isn't a decline, but stagnation.

I joined a thriving ward (by UK standards) in the mid 90's, and am still there.

Although we get 120+ attendance, probably 100 were either there when I arrived, married to, or a child of someone that was.

We get 10 baptisms or so a year, but we would be surprised if more than 1 stayed active. (I know the Stake President has moaned about the state of converts being baptised to the Mission President. Most of the time, the members don't have a chance at fellow-shipping before the convert goes inactive!)

Looking at those Units figures in the opening post, I don't think it's a sign of decline. I suspect that the Church thought that increasing the number of units would result in a growth of attendence. This sounds like a reasonable idea, as some units cover a wide area (especially in the West Country). However, for whatever reason, this latest inspired programme didn't work, and so they had to quietly consolidate again.

Six years ago or so, the Stake Presidency wanted to close down one ward and sell off the building. They then proposed re-organising the boundaries of the other wards, so that pressure was taken off the small number of members that always seemed to do all of the work. They prayed and fasted over this idea for a number of months. They then proposed it to the Area Presidency who in a face-to-face meeting with the SP told him to have more faith, and the Stake would grow, and the pressure decrease.

Outwardly, the Stake President took it remarkably well. But the members still struggle, and suffer...

I have a friend who tracked church attendance in Canberra over many years. When they split wards overall attendance dropped and when they consolidated wards total attendance improved. When the leaders put a case up to amalgamate units they were told to have faith. The church needs to look big in the nation's capital. The leaders were ticked off because they knew the harm this was doing to the youth.

This sort of thing happens all the time and typically it is local Australian leaders being dismissed by Area leaders from Utah. This has caused considerable frustration for a lot of local leaders.

"I have a friend who tracked church attendance in Canberra over many years. When they split wards overall attendance dropped and when they consolidated wards total attendance improved. When the leaders put a case up to amalgamate units they were told to have faith. The church needs to look big in the nation's capital. The leaders were ticked off because they knew the harm this was doing to the youth"

I saw this exact same thing in Mexico, when I was on my mission.

Even as a missionary, I was frustrated with the church leadership for this exact reason.

The best example I can give is an area where they have 2 "wards" that live in one building. Attendance was about 15-20 for each one. One ward had a bishop and no counselors. The other one had a bishop and a counselor. I knew that if they merged the wards that more people in total would attend. Each ward had children with nobody to play with.

I already knew about critical mass and why the most advantageous approach would be to combine wards together, but the biggest slap in the face was that the leadership wanted to actually divide the wards even further.

Oh well, I'm glad these are things I don't stress over anymore.

Simon, my old ward attendance figures are down from 135(2005) to 85(2011).
In 2006-7 alone, 10 actives and 5 inactives officially resigned and others went inactive and have not returned (including 2 former R/Soc. Preidents, a former Bishop and an EQ President).In 2004 the former Stake President of many years standing left the Church too.

Birmingham Stake was shrinking fast so they moved Solihull Ward (Church Office Ward) from Coventry Stake into it.

One member of 60 years told me they now talk reactivation more than missionary work and he`s getting tired of it. He also complains that the lessons are very rigid and he doesn`t enjoy them at all.

Some of the members who previously had not been trusted with much responsibility are now the leaders. Regards.

I wonder if the UK members have a tendency to study the historical facts more than the North American Saints do.

I don't think that there are as many hang-ups about things like sex in the UK either, so perhaps that makes the Church a lot less appealing to the younger generation.

While on my mission in Europe I learned there was a lower standard for the number of members it takes to make a ward, which is usually less than half of what you'd expect state side. Big part of it is geographic considerations and also bureaucratically there are things the church can do with wards and stakes that can't be done in branches, even if the only thing changing is they call it a ward instead of a branch.

I think part of the problem in the UK and elsewhere, even here in Canada, was when there was a push to split many of the units up into smaller entities and have faith they will grow is it didn't work as they ignored one thing the Morg does well. They needed a critical body of mass, especially among the youth to keep everyone there having a fun time and also having everyone keep everyone else in line.

Just as an anecdote, my home ward was huge growing up. We'd have 8 deacons passing Sacrament each week to a filled chapel plus a 1/3 of the gym in overflow. Then in 1999 they split it up 3 ways and put the stake line down the middle. I was there on Easter to listen to my father's talk and you could squeeze everybody into the first 1/3 of the chapel, they have 5 young men total for the whole ward.

Also among the YSA the institute director is lamenting falling numbers in enrolment, which is a good gauge of YSA activity rates.

Hi- I'm in the UK and have been a member for 30+ years. All we are seeing around us is the closure of wards and branches, and amalgamation of several wards into one larger ward. Buildings are mothballed or sold off. 20 years ago, my (then) stake had 15 units- now it has 6- they used to have to hire large halls in which to hold stake conference,or split conference into different ends of the stake but now everyone fits comfortably into the stake centre. The only youth who make it through unscathed to the temple marriage are those from Church families which are long established and prominent, and the cultural element plays a large part.HTH.

From what my mother has told me it has not shrunk, but nor has it grown.

It's interesting that there have been two different responses with regards to the state of the UK church.

Is it possible to get an idea of rough locations for these responses (even with 'anon' screen names where required)?

I'll start:

Portsmouth Stake- my ward is constant/stagnant. Another ward has experienced a long term decline, and is very small, but a 10-person family move in helped (and the father was then called as Bishop). I think overall the Stake has probably kept the same attendance (+/- 10%) for the last decade.