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Posted by: Redwing ( )
Date: April 30, 2011 09:25AM

To my understanding, a conditional promise states that if we do this, we shall get that.

For instance:
2 Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

No wonder the evangelicals are claiming the south is being punished. Look what their god teaches them.

Or how about this one: If ye love me, keep my commandments. So a believer sees you 'breaking' a commandment & pronounces that you do not love god.

If you believe what is written/taught in the bible, then no wonder many believers are judgmental, self-righteous, intolerant.

Your thoughts?

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Posted by: dane ( )
Date: April 30, 2011 09:47AM

Some humans are so buried in fantasy land they will never use their thinking abilities for more than to flit on. However, these catastrophies will cause some to pull their heads out. (Maybe a silver lining to these things?)

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: April 30, 2011 09:01PM

Are evangelicals claiming such a thing?

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Posted by: Eldermalin ( )
Date: May 01, 2011 04:00AM

Most Christians, including Mormons, preach such things. Only if you do what God says will you be blessed. Blessings are predicated on your obedience and curses come otherwise. And if it doesn't seem like you are getting blessed in this life or that the wicked aren't getting cursed it's because you aren't looking at how things will pan out in eternity.

God loves us all, but we can only be saved/exalted if we obey all of his laws and do as his leaders command. And because it's impossible to be perfectly obedient we need to be slaves to Jesus who did it for us, but demands we do everything in our power to follow him and then after all we can do he'll do the rest.

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Posted by: Devorah ( )
Date: May 01, 2011 05:25AM

"Most Christians, including Mormons, preach such things. Only if you do what God says will you be blessed. Blessings are predicated on your obedience and curses come otherwise."

With all due respect, I cannot speak (write?) for "other" Christians. Mormons, no way.

I can only write about what I've read:
There is nothing in the New Testament that indicates God is interested in tabulating up brownie points (blessings/curses).
I have to say I don't remember seeing any such thing in the Old Testament either, but I could be mistaken.
When I learned that was a basic Morg teaching, that was a huge red flag.

In the Old Testament Job was obedient, and he was still "tested". Not cursed, since everything was ultimately restored to him.
In the New Testament it says "it rains on the just and unjust alike".
Also, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"
Also, "for it is by grace you have been saved...not by works, that no one can boast".
Also, "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone." Which is, naturally, akin to "Do not judge, or you too will be judged".
For what it's worth, these don't add up to what I would define as "conditional love" or even distant mild affection.
If a "church" teaches something that's not in the bible, my suggestion would be to not get too hung up on it, but to just keep moving on. If an individual is really interested in what the bible says, and not just trying to create a dispute, my thought is that individual would do well to just read it for him or herself. Please do feel free to look these up and be sure I haven't misquoted!

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Posted by: Eldermalin ( )
Date: May 01, 2011 05:57AM

How I was taught, especially using the Old Testament is that Israel was blessed and cursed based on their obedience. Take a gander through the books of Sammuel, Kings, and Chronicles where it talks about who was a good king vs a bad king. For example, Saul the first king was good until he stopped obeying and got prideful. Sammuel the prophet chided Saul that "to obey is better than sacrifice." 1 Sam 15:22.

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Posted by: Eldermalin ( )
Date: May 01, 2011 06:12AM

You are right we can only speak for ourselves and our own experiences, but from my exposure to Christian teachings from attending other denominations, literature, and of course studying the Bible I write what I believe to be the teachings of most Christian congregations I've been exposed to, especially and including Mormons.

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Posted by: Eldermalin ( )
Date: May 01, 2011 05:48AM

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Matt 7:21¶Not every one that asaith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Leviticus 26:21¶And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
2 Thess 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

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Posted by: Devorah ( )
Date: May 01, 2011 06:50AM

I always was uncomfortable with how Mormons cherry-picked which scriptures were "right" and which were "wrong". And then blamed Joseph Smith.

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