I grow weary reading all the horseshit y'all have to wade through with parents and in-law's.

Here's my read. It's perfectly acceptable to say "Get the fuck out of my house and leave my kids alone". Who in their right mind wants their children to be influenced by these moronic morgbots?

Just sayin'...

Ron

Kill them! ... Kill them all!

Timothy

it's important to make boundaries in a firm, but gentle way, but I would think one key objective would be to keep the relationship in tact if at all possible. Your method has high potential to severe the relationship. Firm boundaries can be set in an mature and constructive way, without causing hard irrepairable damage.

Totally disagree. These people (not all, but most) know no boundaries and must be slapped up-side the head with an edict. Stop pu$$y-footing around with this "firm but gentle" bullshit and wake those asshats up!

Just sayin'...

Ron

..no one should, in their right mind, ever tell their mom to "get the fxck out"..seriously? Plus, I would never want to tell my mother-in-law to "get the fxck out" cuz I'm pretty sure my wife wouldn't like it. There's a better way. It's not pssyfooting around to treat our mom's with dignity and respect. Morgbots are the ones who historically treat women as 2nd class; I for one will treat my mom/mother-in-law w/ 1st class gentleness.

I agree with you AnonA. My TBM MIL is insufferable but I feel it is better to be firm and clear with my boundaries than to cut her out of our lives. I think it's unreasonable (and judgmental) to suggest such a thing. Besides, my kids and DH love her even though I can't stand the woman. Relationships are complicated and I feel like what you've suggested is pretty much the worst way to go.

HOWEVER, my MIL lives across the country so it's not very often I have to deal with her shananegins. And I have had to tell my SIL to "fuck off" on more than one occasion.

I do have one with beloved nevermo spouse of thirty-two years. Only person on this planet I'm beholding to.

My FIL was very much a racist. During his one-and-only visit to our humble abode, he assumed it was okay to tell a racist joke, probably because he was in Texas. When I stopped him mid-joke, he got all fluffed-up like I owed him something or something. Never axed the guy for so much as a dime. Beloved quickly ushered step-mom out of the room as she knew I was about to humble Pops. "Just because I'm f**king your daughter doesn't mean I owe you anything, old man. We're under contract." Timothy smilingly advised. We didn't have any problems after that little exchange.

Beloved and I are very proud of the fact that our little empire was built by our own hands. Only our bank and mortgage company ever helped us. We never axed anyone to co-sign or otherwise lend credibility to any of our various endeavors. Even so, our parents somehow think we owe them and I can't figure out why.

So I'm leaning against the 1975 Chevy van Beloved and I bought without anyone's help which is parked in the driveway of the house Beloved and I bought without anyone's help and TBM mom is sorta sitting on the 1980 Formula Firebird Beloved and I bought without anyone's help and she's giving me an ear-full about my smokin' and drinkin' and not going to church and all and I'm taking it with my head down like the good son when it finally dawns on me that I'm the king round these parts and I'll be damned if anyone, including my parents, should be allowed to talk to the king on his lands in such a manner. So, at age twenty-five, I looked-up at mom in a most unapproving manner and enlightened her as follows:

BigTim: "Mom, I think its great that you've got something that gets you up in the morning and keeps you going. I think everyone needs something like that. But I've got something that gets me up and keeps me going too."

TBMMom: (very sarcasticly) "What on earth would that be, son?"

BigTim: "Sex, booze and Rock 'N' Roll, baby!"

We haven't had repeat performance since.

Contrary to mormon beliefs, I had no say in the decision to bring me into the world. As a result, I'm not beholding, in any way, to those who were involved in the process. Same holds true with god. If you're keeping the peace or placating for financial reasons, you suck eggs. The freedom to succeed is always tailed by the freedom to fail. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Timothy

would want to keep the peace. Number one reason for wanting to be peaceful, respectful, and honorable toward ones mother is because she is "mom", and is deservant of our best behavior. I cherish the relationship that I have with my uber-TBM mother. I gently set boundaries with her early on, and I gently and respectfully remind her every so often.

I think you were extremely disrectful to your father in law. If indeed you did say that to him early on, he was probably afraid of you from that point forward.

They stay out of my business.

I found it most disrespectful of FIL to be pushing his racism in my house. When I was nice about it, he got all bent. Guarantee he was nervous around me from that point forward. That was my intent. Never told another racist joke in my presence neither. That was also my intent.

No one automatically deserves our best behavior. Like everyone else, moms have to earn respect. Most don't. What do you base that premise on?

In my world, setting boundaries under no uncertain terms is a matter of efficiency. "Gently" setting boundaries means I'll likely have to do it more than once. I don't like to pay for the same real estate twice.

Timothy



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2011 10:34AM by Timothy.

There are ways of handling things peacefully wherein we can preserve the relationships, yet establish firm boundaries. Most parents (i.e. in-laws) want to be peacefully and meaningfully engaged and apart of their adult children's/grandchildren's lives - and most will respect boundary's if those boundary's are properly set (with gentle reminders now and then). I often pull my uber TBM FIL aside, and say, "Dad, you know I love you. We love you. We want you to be apart of our lives. You are wonderful. However, as I've said before, we do not believe in the church. You must respect that. Now please, no more (ABC behavior), because if you don't, then (XYZ consequences) will follow - and none of want that...so please respect our wishes." He always apologizes, and I give him a hug. As a result, my children get to enjoy a wonderful meaningful relationship with their grandfather (my FIL).

...and I disagree, unless our parents were abusive...they automatically deserve our respect and bestus behavior.

Tell me, AnonA, how many times have you had that conversation with your FIL? ... You said "often" ... Again, I don't like to pay for the same real estate twice. Doesn't seem as though your method is real effective.

I once had a three-strike and you're out rule. Its now down to one.

Why? Because most folks don't pay attention when you say, "That really bothers me."

My new neighbors got an education not long ago. They have two loud-ass barking dogs they once let-out at 2:00 am for the express purpose, it seemed, of waking-up the entire neighborhood. I talked to them very nicely - once - and they said they'd take care of it. The following morning at 2:00 am I was, again, rudely awakened, so I called the cops who, at my behest, issued a rather sizeable fine for violating the noise ordinance. My new neighbors were pissed.

They asked me the next day why I was being such an asshole. I asked them if my two loud-ass barking dogs ever woke them up at 2:00 am. They noted that I don't have any dogs. I then asked them who, exactly, is being the asshole.

You can, as Ron points out, pu**y foot around the issue or nip it in the bud once and for all. Just because I'm inclined to tell folks - point blank - not to do stupid shit doesnt mean that I don't like them. It just means I prefer that they not do stupid shit, particularly when their stupid shit effects me.

They can choose to be all tense around me, but that would be their problem. I'm not the one doing stupid shit.

Timothy



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2011 11:26AM by Timothy.

Mom & Dad/In-law Mom & Dads vs noisey neighbors? My point was that our beloved parents (and yes your wife probably loves her own parents)..deserve a higher standard of behavior than, lets say, Joe Blow up the street. That's all I was saying.

By the way, I am extremely careful how I handle my next door neighbor. Talk about a potential tense situation that can linger on for years and years. You don't want to make enemies with the dude that lives right next door, because every frickin' time you walk out the door, you have to see his face, and OMG that can get old real quick. It's better to be very patient, careful, and friendly. If I were you, I would have talked to them first and tried to reason with them before calling the Po Po, but that's just me.

You mean you won't even agree to disagree with me? C'mon bro.

"often" is a relative term, as in every so often, perhaps once a year. Hey their getting old; they don't have the best memory's anymore. I have to be careful what I say around the FIL, never know when he might be awake.

TBirdguy summs it all up very nicely below.

... gnat s**t out of pepper to me.

No person in my life is worth the price of sacrificing my personal happiness. Please elaborate as to why parents deserve more respect than the average Joe up the street?

As I explained, I did talk to my nieghbors first. That people don't listen is not my problem. That people don't read is likewise of no account. Who's your neighbor? Charles Manson?

The way you handle things obviously doesn't work in that you "often" have to remind people in a "gentle" way what is or is not acceptable. My technique is O-T-O (One Time Only). I don't have to remind. As a result, I don't have to stress over it.

And by the way, you're not me which is why your problem persists.

Timothy

Yeah, my method works for me. Your method works for you. To each his own.

I will say that I am impressed that you, and everyone else here, were able to discuss their opinions in a very adult like manner, without resorting to name calling, insults, etc. Kudos to you, and I thank you for that.

AnonA writes:

"My point was that our beloved parents (and yes your wife probably loves her own parents)..deserve a higher standard of behavior than, lets say, Joe Blow up the street. That's all I was saying."

In my mind, no one, regardless of relationship, deserves a "higher standard" when it comes to anyone's behavior. That's mormonism talking. Your children are not possessions. They're charges. As a parent, its your responsibility to shelter them from potential harm (invasive TBM grandparents) and give them the necessary tools to navigate the rough road of life. In return, they owe you nothing. It was your decision to bring them into this world. They had no say in the process. How that translates into you deserving a "higher standard" of respect is beyond me.

Also, I'm pretty sure I know my wife better than you do. I love my parents as she does hers, but that doesn't mean I have to like them or respect them.

Timothy



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2011 03:41PM by Timothy.

THAT MAKE THE WORLD GO AROUND AND INTERESTING!
Tim definitely has his own way about him...you should see the "cleaning out boogars" video!! ewwwww!! but like Popeye..... he is what he is! not much in between with him! and i like that! :) and ya know what? your way works for you! some people gotta buy patience and some have too much.... who are we to say what works for others!
just sayin!

...in not so many words. I didn't want a relationship with her, nor did I want her around my kids. I also told my mother-in-law to F**K off. My life has been GREAT ever since.

a sure fire way is to tell her to F-off. Even though my mom is a Uber-TBM, I still value my relationship with her AND to all you Mom's out there - HAPPY UPCOMING MOTHER'S DAY!! We love you for all you do for us.

....which I think will be ready to post in a week or two.

You will see why. My father is a petaphile, and my mother is an enabler who was more concerned with her own skin that that of her children, and damn near got my own kids involved with that monster posing as my dad.

You all go ahead and have a great relationship with your mothers, if it works for you. I will continue to not have anything to do with mine.

Here's the thing with my folks:

Never in a million years would they step-up to defend me against the cult, but they wouldn't hesitate a second to defend the cult against me.

AnonA writes:

"I often pull my uber TBM FIL aside, and say, "Dad, you know I love you. We love you. We want you to be a part of our lives. You are wonderful. However, as I've said before, we do not believe in the church. You must respect that. Now please, no more (ABC behavior), because if you don't, then (XYZ consequences) will follow - and none of want that...so please respect our wishes." He always apologizes, and I give him a hug. As a result, my children get to enjoy a wonderful meaningful relationship with their grandfather (my FIL)."

If it works so well, why does it occur so "often?"

With TBMs, its never about family or relationships. Its about the cult.

Timothy

I asked my mom nicely not to let my kids have anything to do with dad while she was with them. But she knew better, and would let him around them all the time. I had to get nasty and get in her face, for her to understand that when I say no, I MEAN NO.

Mormons are like that.

... how many exmo parents turn a blind-eye toward abuse from TBM grandparents for the sake of keeping the peace.

Mormons are taught that children are possessions. Everytime this discussion graces these pages, there is little, if any, concern aimed at the kid's well-being. If keeping peace with my parents over-rules doing right by my kids, then grandma and grandpa gots ta go. As TBMs, they're not interested in a meaningful relationship with the grandkids. Their concerns reside solely with the cult.

Timothy

...and "often" is a very relative term, as in, "every so often" perhaps once a year or so. We teach people how they should treat us.

I've got a great FIL/MIL...they know what our boundaries are, and I was able to do so in a peaceful loving way. In return, we have wonderful family get togethers and meaningful family experiences with their grandkids. Mom and dad (both sides) won't be around forever, so every moment is precious.

... what is or is not acceptable?

Relative term? ... If you had said "Once in a blue moon, I have to pull my TBM FIL aside ..." I might accept what is now obvious back-tracking. What you said, however, is ""I often pull my uber TBM FIL aside ..." which indicates that you do it with a fair degree of frequency.

I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. Why are you trying to pull my leg?

Timothy

A parents job is above all the protection of their children. I see posts here often where TBMs are allowed access to children and the TBMs say things about non mormons, or about the children themselves because the kids aren't mormon that are not conducive to raising a emotionally healthy child.

Once you have children, THAT is the most important relationship. If your mom is bad for your children then it doesn't matter how much you value your relationship with her, you owe it to your child to cut out your mother.

are and how they think they own some of the people on this board.

My parents were far from perfect, but they listened to why I no longer was mormon and were very aware of what my life had been like. When I read this board, I am so grateful for the parents I did have!

I agree with Ron and Timothy--some parents need to be thrown out of our lives. I have thrown one sister out of my life and it has been a very good thing.

When I hear "I wish you wouldn't drink beer. I think you should get married if you're going to sleep with your boyfriend. I think you should find a church to join. I wish you would/wouldn't..." I just want to say "I wish you wouldn't baptize dead people into your church. I wish you wouldn't give money to a wealthy organization that has their own political and economic agenda. I wish you wouldn't indoctrinate your children/grandchildren. The list can go on.

But without my in-laws how would I come up with my antics and idiosyncrasies? I always post true stories else I'm no better than Joe. My MIL is the best source of (WTF?) stories that I have. Without her I'd have to write fiction.

"Just saying..."

MiB

We resided next to my mother in law for app. 2 yrs. It was even my idea. (we could save $) I was in my late 20's and it definitely caused more anamosity w/myself and my mil. It was almost if she was a little resentful of me. Can you believe, she would bring over home cooked food ALL THE TIME and I would complain to my husband that I didn't want her doing that. Now, today I'd probably say OK sounds good. Btw, Ron how are you?? Didn't you have your surgery?? IF so, how did it go??

Your children are your first priority and if an parents or in-laws do not respect your wishes, preach to your children when asked not to, try and belittle you for leaving the church, etc... in short, do not respect boundaries - then an F-bomb is not unacceptable.

Parents should understand their boundaries when it comes to their grandchildren, the same boundaries that their parents had to respect when they raised you.

My parents did not allow either set of grandparents to do anything contrary against what they taught, and they respected that. My parents do not stick their nose in my life - even having left the church. They respect my family.

My grandfather, very anti-mormon, never said a bad word about the church in front of me, never voiced his opinion about the church to me until I graduated and joined the Navy. His first comment was "What do you think about the church?" I told him, "I don't really know, but I think it is all BS." And then we had a very long discussion, which ended with, "I don't know why your father should be so upset and angry over you not wanting to go on a mission and go to church, because he did the same thing to me. I wonder if he ever thought about how his parents felt when he left our church to join the Mormon church?"

And there ya have it. Grandparents have boundaries. If they don't follow the boundaries, they gotta F---k off...

Move far away.

stormy

There are a number of reasons why someone might not make that choice.

Even though I complain about my in-laws in my recent post, we ARE trying to solve the issue...my spouse is actively trying to find a job in the Pacific Northwest so that we can get the hell out of dodge.

Until that time, though, we are stuck close to family, and due to this being a Mormon town, have little to no resources outside of said family, since we no longer attend church.

My bet is that many of the people in this thread who told family to "fuck off" did so while far more established and secure then we currently are. That is not our situation though...there are a variety of circumstances, and to treat such a choice like a black or white issue is to be guilty of the same judgements that the church makes...probably the reason you left!

I have told my parents to take a hike...they are very manipulative and abusive. We lived with my in-laws for a while though...my children have no memory of a time when they were not an integral part of their lives. To tear that away at this time would be petty, and honestly more harmful then needing to do occasional damage control...especially when we're trying to improve our circumstance.

At my bridal shower, over 13 years ago, my mom gave me this advice,"Move far enough away that it takes a dollar to send a penny post card."

I took her advice, much to her chagrin, as she didn't think that that advice should apply to her and her only grandkids.

Our lives have been about 98% peaceful since we put a few states in between us and our extended families.

It depends on the circumstances, for sure. It also depends on whether you want to resort to childish behavior or take charge of your life as an adult.

If you want to end your relationship with parents, telling them to "f**k off" will do the trick most likely. But it is a reaction, not an action. A grown-up way to handle it is to tell them tactfully why you must sever ties. And then do it.

If you love them and want them to be in your life, you need to set boundaries and teach them who is in charge of you.

Temper tantrums and name calling make you look like an offended child and leave you feeling embarrassed and defensive. Taking charge of the situation tactfully, that garners respect on both sides.