I really hate it when Mormons insist that there are no "modest" women's or girl's clothes at all. When there are. When most girls & women wear regular clothes that cover even their shoulders (which the Mormon Cult is obsessed with), day in & day out. But they don't notice & they don't care. Because the cult is all about brainwashing & control.

Definitely.
During my TBM days, I did my shopping at Old Navy, Burlington Coat Factory and Kohl's. Plenty of options. I'll admit, I do most of my shopping online since I'm petite.

One thing I never understood during my 11+ years in TSCC is why shoulders (sleeveless, not spaghetti straps if that makes sense) were such a big deal?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2016 05:40PM by severedpuppetstrings.

"One thing I never understood during my 11+ years in TSCC is why shoulders (sleeveless, not spaghetti straps if that makes sense) were such a big deal?"

Just an educated guess- if you're sleeveless or wearing spaghetti straps, you're not wearing the official underwear. That makes you an unworthy harlot.

You're on the right track.

A generation or so ago the Morg realized that a lot of young
women were wearing clothing that was not garment-friendly.
When those young women went through the temple they found they
either had to throw away a lot of their wardrobe or tuck.
Well, tucking is forbidden.

So the Morg decided to teach them to start wearing only garment-
friendly clothing from the beginning. But you couldn't say it
was about the super-sacred (not secret) garments, so they made
it about "modesty." Sleeveless dresses and tops suddenly
became immodest. The FRIEND even had a story about a little
girl whose grandmother or someone gives her a sleeveless
sun-dress as a gift. But the little girl felt immodest wearing
it. So Mom got her a T-shirt to wear under and now the little
girl feels OK.

The kicker is that since this was about "modesty" and not about
Mormon religious clothing, it spilled over into the secular
realm with Mormon school leaders deciding that sleeveless prom
dresses were "inappropriate" and "immodest" which put Utah in
the national spotlight with stories like this:

http://www.people.com/article/high-schooler-told-dress-inappropriate-school-dance

To see how recent this is here's the official portrait of Judy
Lynne Green, BYU's homecoming queen for 1964:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1234289_10153316846330634_337809910_n.jpg?oh=2e52bb55d2df40b38b3cc01d2968757e&oe=586E6DB9



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2016 03:09PM by baura.

baura Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're on the right track.
>
> A generation or so ago the Morg realized that a
> lot of young
> women were wearing clothing that was not
> garment-friendly.
> When those young women went through the temple
> they found they
> either had to throw away a lot of their wardrobe
> or tuck.
> Well, tucking is forbidden.
>
> So the Morg decided to teach them to start wearing
> only garment-
> friendly clothing from the beginning. But you
> couldn't say it
> was about the super-sacred (not secret) garments,
> so they made
> it about "modesty." Sleeveless dresses and tops
> suddenly
> became immodest. The FRIEND even had a story
> about a little
> girl whose grandmother or someone gives her a
> sleeveless
> sun-dress as a gift. But the little girl felt
> immodest wearing
> it. So Mom got her a T-shirt to wear under and
> now the little
> girl feels OK.
>
> The kicker is that since this was about "modesty"
> and not about
> Mormon religious clothing, it spilled over into
> the secular
> realm with Mormon school leaders deciding that
> sleeveless prom
> dresses were "inappropriate" and "immodest" which
> put Utah in
> the national spotlight with stories like this:
>
> http://www.people.com/article/high-schooler-told-d
> ress-inappropriate-school-dance
>
> To see how recent this is here's the official
> portrait of Judy
> Lynne Green, BYU's homecoming queen for 1964:
>
> https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1234
> 289_10153316846330634_337809910_n.jpg?oh=2e52bb55d
> 2df40b38b3cc01d2968757e&oe=586E6DB9



Oy vey!

It's funny, in Maryland where I live, I've seen girls wear sleeveless dresses like the one in the first article to YSA dances. There were no issues...or so it looked that way.

I was at Byu then and remember Judy Green well. Things were much different at BYU then. There was no ecclesiastical requirement and the necessary Bishop's interview. No one even checked if you showed up to church or not. ....and I lived in the dorms then, easy to keep track. I guess they didn't have as many applicants and needed the tuition money then. Anyhow, " dress standards" were enforced, but not as big of a deal was made of it as now. I even had kind of a Beatles hairdo then and no big deal was made of it. I think this " correlation program" was intended to consolidate power into the wing of ultra conservatives right about 67-68 and since then more and more scrutiny has been applied to image.....so they can get more donations from rich Mormons.

I was a young dumb kid from Chicago then and had a good time at BYU in those days.....would hate it now,

I really don't get it when it's over 90F

I also don't get why there are plenty of clothes that cover shoulders or whatever people want to cover, but then why wear obviously oversized clothes then? muu-muus don't do women any favors, why pretend like any feminine shape at all is bad (or is it?) It seems like the preferred "modest" silhouette is either "marshmallow", "dollop of whipped cream", or "generally oblong"..

AND no porn allowed. It might be kinder to castrate mormon men altogether.

You're right.

Mormons insisting that modest clothing isn't readily available is the same as them complaining about society's attacks on the family or growing intolerance towards their religious view. It just isn't so. It's a way to make the world appear wicked..."We can't find any modest clothing because appropriate dress and modesty is ONLY valued in Mormonism and not by the rest of the world."

The church continually reminds members that they're being attacked from every direction so that members will see the church as a safe haven. It provides solutions to problems that don't really exist.

I don't wear garments anymore, but just about everything in my closet could be worn with garments. Finding shorts that were long enough was always a little tricky, but I'm also pretty short and even petite garments were long on me.

want2bx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're right.
>
> Mormons insisting that modest clothing isn't
> readily available is the same as them complaining
> about society's attacks on the family or growing
> intolerance towards their religious view. It just
> isn't so. It's a way to make the world appear
> wicked..."We can't find any modest clothing
> because appropriate dress and modesty is ONLY
> valued in Mormonism and not by the rest of the
> world."
>
> The church continually reminds members that
> they're being attacked from every direction so
> that members will see the church as a safe haven.
> It provides solutions to problems that don't
> really exist.


The "Us against the world" mentality. Before I discovered the truth about TSCC, I remember thinking that the church's "us against the world mentality" is something they brought upon themselves.

Choosing a "common enemy" to be your adversary is one of the oldest propaganda techniques used to consolidate power and bind the group you are attempting to influence thru leadership. I actually learned that in my Mass Communication class at BYU. At least I learned something of value there.....Of course this isn't a concept created and inspired by Mormon leaders, just an old tried and true idea hijacked to meet their needs, just like the rest of it.

Yep don't get it - I dress exactly the same now as I did then, except occasional tank top during the summer. Finding 'modest' clothes is not difficult. My super TBM sister in law wears skin tight t shirts and jeans, but they cover all the right parts, so apparently that counts as modest......

Definitely agree it's part of the persecution complex, and how they are 'different' from the rest of the world.

Sounds like the dress code is very much like the Word of Wisdom.

LDS women can dress in tight clothes, as long as they follow the specific other rules about hems and sleeves, and LDS folks can eat food that's really unhealthy, and too much of it, as long as they don't smoke or drink alcohol or coffee.

Letter of the Law.

Tristan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really hate it when Mormons insist that there
> are no "modest" women's or girl's clothes at all.

I don't understand why they don't just have done with it and convert to a conservative form of Islam. Problem solved!

NeverMo in CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tristan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I really hate it when Mormons insist that there
> > are no "modest" women's or girl's clothes at
> all.
>
> I don't understand why they don't just have done
> with it and convert to a conservative form of
> Islam. Problem solved!

Last night I was wearing an outfit I felt comfortable in and I felt that it was modest and my very strict Mormon grandmother came up to me out of the blue and said I always thought you were the modest child but I was wrong. I was wearing shorts that only showed my legs. If I bent over you couldn't see my butt and I definitely wasn't tugging on them to cover myself but I felt covered. And she kept going and going on and on about why I thought that was okay? I told her if the Lord saw me right now I would be extremely comfortable with what I had on and she answered incredulously, saying really? Do you really believe that? I believe the doctrine and I felt the shorts I was wearing were modest. And I hate that I was being shamed by my own family who I trust. I don't feel comfortable around her anymore knowing how she truly feels now. My parents both took me aside and said they thought I was being modest and I can choose if I take offense to this. I'm thankful for parents who do not judge me and know I do the right things.

A lot of people designate themselves modesty police. I'm glad you stood up for yourself. You dress exactly how you want and let others deal with their own thoughts and opinions.

want2bx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The church continually reminds members that
> they're being attacked from every direction so
> that members will see the church as a safe haven.
> It provides solutions to problems that don't
> really exist.


Yes. They want the special status ('Peculiar People'), then they want the 'world' to give them whatever they want. They complain they are misunderstood and unsupported by the 'world' and seem to enjoy the victim/persecuted status but how can they have this if the 'world' becomes Mormon (whatever that means as it's a collapsing circle of crap)?

If they want to be the peculiar persecuted, then they should stop demanding everyone else to change. Relish victimization and demonize the 'world'!

Some of those clothing corporations actively support LGBT so not sure why the Mormons even bother...aren't they supposed to sew their own stuff?

This is kind of relevant....

So, I get a call from my wife today telling me that one of the kids is upset by the "inappropriate" pictures I was looking at last night. She tells me that the child who was looking at face book with me as I scrolled through all the news feeds saw something that I should not have looked at and that I just looked for a long time at a picture of a woman with "no bottoms" on. The kid did not say face book, but that's where I was. I racked my brain for a while trying to think about what the child is talking about, look at the history on the iPad last night and nothing but FB and a few news sights. That's crazy. What pisses me off is the call and the accusation. The KGB aspect to this, if you will. I would never view anything with a child that was not for their age... Or "appropriate" for them. This stems from the kids being hyper-modest. My son will not take off his shirt while swimming, because that is not modest, and he feels he is being inappropriate. I think he is on track to be the next Tobias Funke with his never nude antics. Great kids, but they are getting bad propaganda on this modesty business.
when I get home, I expect my iPad and phone will be reviewed by my KGB. That is not appropriate.

You forgot about white shirts for gus!

We used to be immodest in public.

On the mission, I remember elders taking off their shirts to play as skins when playing basketball and *other* full contact sports. No, the sisters playing along kept their shirts on.

My TBM sister is always touting the phrase 'modest is hottest'. Especially to a family friend who is in high school (her whole family went 'inactive' years ago). Sick of hearing it and feeling weird about wearing tank tops around the fam and other TBMs who know me. Lol

When you're dry humping, clothes are of no concern.

It is inappropriate to dry hump with your shoulders uncovered.

Try dry humping with your clothes off.

Dry humping with no clothes on is very inefficient and time consuming!

I wouldn't say that. Certain fabrics create the necessary friction to achieve, you know, climax.

I remember very awkwardly explaining this to my bishop years ago about a "sin" my ex-girlfriend and I had committed... Several times. I was trying to not be indelicate, until I finally said we had been 'dry humping'. To this day I still don't know if he really gets it. Not that I care.

But hey, most of the time she was dressed modestly as we did the deed, so at least that was one sin uncommitted.

I get annoyed by this fixation on modesty because the church, and other Christian sects get the scripture wrong about this. In 1 Timothy 2:9-10 it says "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works." So by modest, the scripture means not being vain and not showing off expensive clothing and fancy hair, but perhaps instead spending their money on doing good. Also, in Matthew 5:29 it says "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell" It doesn't say if thy right eye offends thee shame that woman for what she was wearing, it's her fault. That boy at Timpview wasn't supposed to tell the cheerleaders to stop wearing their uniforms, he was supposed to pluck his freaking eye out (the hyperbole basically means then don't look at them, stupid). No where in scripture does it say anything about covering up a woman's body to avoid showing her form. No where does it say a woman is responsible for the lustful thoughts of the man, but several places it says the man is responsible for his own lustful thoughts. And come on, if they can control the priesthood, they should be able to control their penises, right? This from a pagan who obviously did her time in seminary.

St. Anthony of Claret, the Spanish founder of the Catholic religious order informally called the Claretians, was once sent out from Rome to serve as the Archbishop of Havana for a few years, during the 19th century.

Upon his return, some other churchman remarked to him that Cuban women were said to be very beautiful. The saint replied that he couldn't say, as all he had ever seen were their shoes.

It's one of my gripes about mainstream Islam as well--why should women have to wear shame-sacks to keep men from becoming excited? Why don't the males address their own problem, perhaps by keeping their own eyes modestly cast down if they want to avoid any temptation, like St. Anthony of Claret, rather than prescribe what females have to wear?

St Claret was a foot guy, is that what you're saying? Seeing the rest of the girl didn't really matter to him.

More control [Mind, if you don't mind, or notice].

PS- do I need to say I hate spell check?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2016 11:55AM by readwrite.

Let us not forget the *other* reason for modesty: the many sidebar ads on mormony websites for mormon-owned modest clothes companies.

because capitalism=righteouesness

Between us, Bro, nakkid shoulders don't get me excited--I like female tushies in skirts (yoga pants are very nice, too!). Sundays at BYU were perfect tushie observation days!

I thought I had evolved past that modesty bull shit--maybe not.

I was subbing as a school nurse for a high school. A beautiful young woman came in. She was dressed in a tight, low cut, spaghetti strap tank, short shorts, fishnet tights, and boots.

They do have a basic dress code there, but no one sent her to me for that. As a sub, it's not my call. Actually I wouldn't say anything unless actual boobs or buns were hanging out.

Is it just my age or my former religion working here?

Dorothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> A beautiful young woman came in. She was dressed
> in a tight, low cut, spaghetti strap tank, short
> shorts, fishnet tights, and boots.
>
>
> Is it just my age or my former religion working
> here?



Uh, no, not just you. I think most anyone but her "friends" would call that a hooker outfit.

Mormonism is a religion that is almost entirely based upon externalities. Your spiritual standing is about how well you conform to its system of taboos.

In the larger scheme of religious denominations, it's a very poor vehicle for Christian discipleship and an even worse vehicle as a spiritual practice.

Modesty is entirely subjective. From the perspective of a burqa wearing culture, a knee length skirt might as well sport a sign that reads "Come and get it boys!" My TBM wife and I are entirely at odds over this modesty thing. I've repeatedly told her that the porn shoulders thing is absurd and I'm not OK with her shaming our daughters over it.

I was kicked out of a dance at BYU, because of my dress, which was not tight, or short, or see-through, or low-cut, but the sleeves were semi-sheer. My RS mother had bought it for me.

It was the first BYU dance, my Freshman year. My date was a very good looking athlete, who was very well-liked, and I was a nobody, so I felt honored to be invited by him. It was our first date.

We were dancing, when a middle-aged man in a brown suit, and a woman in a church-dress accosted us, in the middle of the dance floor, and said my dress was inappropriate, and that I was invited to leave the dance, immediately. I thought they were joking--to humiliate me like that. They escorted me out the door, and my date came along, too. The man and woman were so rude, that I thought my date was going to deck the guy. The Morg didn't ruin our relationship, though, and we were inseparable for that entire year, until someone else came along. (BYU--UGH)

Later that year, we were both kicked out of another dance for inappropriate dance-moves, and that time, we just laughed about it.

The dress code seems to have gotten much more conservative since my church going days 50 years ago. My mom and a few of the other well endowed wives liked to show a bit of cleavage and their hemlines were a wee bit north of their knees back then.

RB

I agree. In another 50 years, they'll all be dressing like the FLDS in Hildale. I've heard mothers, at the Draper pool, in 105 degree heat, commenting on six year old girl's "immodest bathing suits".

I already see Mormon women wearing long skirts on Sundays. Cult mindfuck in full control.

RB