While I was trying to avoid re-awakening my LDS Freedom Forum addiction (it's okay, RaptorJ; I'm coming up on 30 days abstinence), I was going through some old files on my desktop, one of which was labeled "Peterson DNA Defense."

Here's the link (Bullchip Warning... Plus, for the truly valiant in spirit, parts II and III are linked at the far right)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGwL7FnIkI

Be further warned; I believe Simon Southerton summarized these presentations as, "How to Talk for 30 minutes Without Saying Anything."

As a tribute to the late Isaac Asimov, I've given considerable braintime to identifying and categorizing the "Three Laws of Mopologetics." Unfortunately, I've always been stymied by the difficulty of reducing the number to three (or even four; as genuine Asimov disciples know, a "Zeroeth Law" was developed which permitted a robot to assume the "mantle of Godhood" and guide the course of human destiny and evolution without many of the restraints of ordinary "morality." BTW, Asimov's works offer excellent "medicine" for the trauma of leaving LDS, Inc). We know the First Law of Mopologists is on the order of "The Book of Mormon is True; this Law supercedes and renders null all information to the contrary."

But it gets complicated after that... Maybe a better approach might be a "Ten Commandments of Mopologetics" instead (runtu?).

Certainly, this one is valid even if its place in the hierarchy is uncertain...

A MOPOLOGIST SHALL, IN ALL DISCUSSIONS, MAKE PROMINENT REFERENCES TO ED DECKER!

Similarly, one notes that Thomas Murphy--a PhD anthropologist who discussed the subject--is unnamed (can't have the faithful Googling up someone reasonable). Too, Dr. Southerton is only referred to as a "former Mormon plant geneticist from Australia"; shoot, he doesn't even mention Simon had been a bishop...

Don't try to learn anything about DNA from this one; Peterson says he's not an expert, and at least he's telling the truth there...

The only time he comes close to the subject is the old claim, "We don't know what Ishmael's wife's [mitochondrial] DNA looked like."

Never mind that she didn't exist; if she had, she would've come from the Middle East, and claiming her mtDNA might be similar to that of Native Americans is like claiming someone from Nigeria would be indistinguishable from someone from Mongolia or Siberia.

In between, as noted, is a lot of fluff and nonsense that amounts to a well-rehearsed cemetary whistling act...

Finally, near the end of video three, the genetic data from Iceland is mentioned, where it is noted that most modern Icelanders are descended from relatively few individuals.

Other than proving the validity of the existence of "genetic drift" via population "bottlenecks," this sort of dissembling proves nothing.

In debunking any BOM relevance, Simon Southerton notes,

>• Between 1700 and 1800 Iceland’s population actually fell from 50,000 to 47,000 due to harsh environmental conditions. Iceland is a very marginal place to live given its arctic climate.
>• A smallpox epidemic in 1707 claimed 35% of Iceland’s population.
>• In 1783 Mt Laki erupted. Fluorine gas and acid rain lead to the death of over 25% of the population. This was one of the largest volcanic eruptions in the last 12,000 years.
>• Most people were farm laborers and in early Icelandic culture the poorest were discouraged from marrying and raising families because they were regarded as “weaklings”.
>• Between 1870 and 1914 over 20% of the population emigrated to North America, in particular Canada.
>• During the 20th century emigration has always outstripped immigration, adding to the 20% who left earlier.
>• Young people and young families are likely to have been overrepresented in these emigrating groups, increasing the loss of descendants.

>Given these factors it is hardly surprising that the population today is descended from a fraction of the population living 300 years ago. I would estimate that over 70% of the population either died from disease and natural disasters, were prevented from raising families, or they got fed up and left.

And despite these events, DNA comparisons between those of Icelandic descent and those whose ancestors emigrated would still show a verifiable connection.

Thanks Cabbie. I noticed in part III he says there is no such thing as Jewish DNA. I get tired of hearing that.

Near Eastern people have haplogroups different from European, Asian, African, and American. These markers from the Near East have been used in many studies about the spread of agriculture, migrations into Europe, even the Etruscans origins. The apologists would have us ignore the Near Eastern DNA identifications when it concerns Hebrew people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS8pxA9WePY&feature=related#t=8m48s

A whole bunch of nothing with the obfuscatory anectode of Islandic DNA anomalies as the "silver bullet".

Peterson derides supposed statements by anti-mormons in articles such as "it is all over for the Mormon Church".

It is amusing that after quoting the obfuscatory conclusion (regarding Lamanite DNA in light of the Icelandic study) by his friend who works for NIST, Dr. Peterson says "Well to me, that's it! IT'S OVER!"

It looks like Peterson just made a statement like the ones he was deriding throughout his presentation.

A scientist would be ashamed to quote the Icelandic study and draw a global conclusion regarding Amerind DNA studies. But not an apologist.

"Well to me, that's it! IT'S OVER!"

I watched it, too.

First Dr. Peterson stated he is not a DNA geneticist.
He quotes from the NIST dude's finding of the study.

Then



he



leaps



to



a conclusion.


"Since this study was odd, 'Well to me, that's it! IT'S OVER! ' "


Shameful! I guess we should all stop studying DNA because of the odd Icelandic study?!

DNA is an anagram for .... DAN!

Wow, what a wit!

I wonder if my old creation was his inspiration for that one...

We'll never know, but my apologies to the entire community if that's the case...

From an old MA&D board post...

Peterson: "Denial C. Peterson isn't bad, but I really would like to know what I'm in denial of..."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2011 10:02PM by SL Cabbie.

I don't think for a second the apologists ever considered that these "disappearing" lamanites/nephites were supposed to be God's chosen people. I guess God chose these chosen people, in their own choice land, to be wiped out and/or swallowed up by the descendants of another race that God chose to leave no trace of horses (therefore the Book of Mormon is True!).

That's some choosin'!

And like an over inflated balloon, he just wants to prick it.

Hmmmmmmmm.


Hype

Hype

Hype

Hype

What tiny "religion" is all about hype???????

Hmmmmmmmm....

Oh, and others too. ;)

Millions and millions of Nephite/Lamanite people. Hundreds of thousands of them lost their lives in a HUGE battle. Cumorah is where we should see evidence of a great Nephite/Lamanite battle. Nothing there. Huge buildings, factories, churchs, a temple like unto Solomons. A people who supposedly landed in panama and spread through mexico up to new york, from panama down to argentina would leave a big ass trail of history behind them.


Alma 2: 27
27 And behold, as they were crossing the river Sidon, the Lamanites and the Amlicites, being as numerous almost, as it were, as the sands of the sea, came upon them to destroy them.
Morm. 1: 7
7 The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous almost, as it were the sand of the sea.
Hel. 3: 8
8 And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east.
4 Ne. 1: 10, 23, 28
10 And now, behold, it came to pass that the people of Nephi did wax strong, and did multiply exceedingly fast, and became an exceedingly fair (white) and delightsome people.

23 And now I, Mormon, would that ye should know that the people had multiplied, insomuch that they were spread upon all the face of the land, and that they had become exceedingly rich, because of their prosperity in Christ.


Hel. 3: 7, 9, 11, 14
But behold, a hundredth part of the proceedings of this people, yea, the account of the Lamanites and of the Nephites, and their wars, and contentions, and dissensions, and their preaching, and their prophecies, and their shipping and their building of ships, and their building of temples, and of synagogues and their sanctuaries, and their righteousness, and their wickedness, and their murders, and their robbings, and their plundering, and all manner of abominations and whoredoms, cannot be contained in this work. So there is soooo much more these people did but he only mentions a hundredth.

Nothing that relates to this vast BOM civilization has been found. One would think the word Nephi or Lehi would show up somewhere in the Americas. The apologist grasp at straws when relating Maya,Aztec similarities to the Lamanites.

Next you'll here apologists say, well sands of the sea could mean a bucket of sand in the entire ocean of sand. That's what nephi meant. Because they aren't the 'principle' ancestors, they were just a small portion of ancestors 'among' the ginormous population that was already here. Bla Bla Bla, listen to me, I have a doctorate degree.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2011 12:05PM by GadiantonRobber.