So as a kid I grew up in a poorer urban ward in N. Utah. We had transients that would walk in off the street to sit in the church on Sundays. And the members would move as soon as they had a little money. but this was during the 80's and 90's. I remember leadership preaching about the devil living in playing cards, you can't work on Sundays, women's place was in the home, not out in the workplace so she could "have extra money to buy sweaters." Obey the priesthood. mental illness and depression is of the devil.

Now I'm in a wealthier neighborhood (I'm still poor though ironically) and it seems the people are less stringent and sticklers for the details. I see people being on vacation on Sundays, women working and making good money, even the bishops wife. I can't imagine her saying her place is in the home etc. I see bigger houses and bigger cars and boats and nobody says they are scared of the devil anymore.

Anyone else notice any of this?
Maybe the whole church is getting softer, not just the rich?

And one other thing, there seems to be way less gossip. Rich Mormons aren't into each others business as much?

poopstone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And one other thing, there seems to be way less
> gossip. Rich Mormons aren't into each others
> business as much?


Oh yes, definitely! It has been a long rich tradition in my family to say "choose friends who are wealthier than you, for they will not be envious. If you have friends who are less well-off, make sure they cannot tell".

I grew up in a not affluent Ward (poor). The High Councilors who would come and preach at us were always from the rich Ward(s). They would preach not to limit the number of children, women not to work, marry young, learn a trade and college was for men after marriage. All the major things to keep a young couple poor.

As I grew older and started asking these men questions about their lives all the shit they preached to us poor Mormons did not apply to them. They married after college not before. They had 2 children not 10. Their wives worked full time in great careers they loved. None of them learned a trade, they all had white collar professions.

Within Mormonism there are two groups - the rich and the poor. The poor need to be humble,
clean toilets and pay tithing. The rich need to pay tithing.

I've noticed this as well. Especially among the GAs. They preach about the right way to live and succeed, but seem to have gotten to their positions in a different way? The rich seem to feel like, and in most instances were the exceptions to the rule.

I grew up in a fairly well to do ward back in the 50's and 60's, but we had our share of poor folks too. And I'd bet living here is a whole lot different that in Utah or southern Idaho or 10 miles south in the shithole.

RB

Rather than wealth related? What is being said in rich and poor wards today?

I recall reading something about this sort of topic once before joining TSCC. It was in regard to Hindus millennia ago who expanded from a relatively fertile area of India to one that was more arid and harsher - more difficult to eek out a living. What was observed was an increase in the adherence to the religion and greater dependence of the people on the religion for comfort and meaning to their lives in the harsher environment. The same sort of phenomenon has been observed in various ways during economic downturns. The divorce rate typically dips when people struggle financially (even though that would seem counter intuitive). One proposed explanation is that couples have something to concentrate on other than their marital problems and the couple may survive better together than apart - sharing expenses for example.

I can't say this explanation is what is observed here, but it is a possibility.

I suspect, that the last thing TSCC wants to do is piss off people who are giving them money. As long as you keep giving them money, the rules can be bent.

LOL. Amen

I live in an area where there are a lot of affluent TBMs. It seems that my age group (30s) are in major competition with each other for the biggest/nicest houses, cars, clothes, etc. I don't see humility, I see elitism, competition, materialism. It's mostly a problem with the women. They are all about being trendy and spendy.

In general I think that they did marry young, but the women popped out babies and lived in poverty while their husbands went through school. Now they have something to prove. And oh yea, one of their most recent bishops was independently wealthy and frequently hosted huge catered parties in his 'great and spacious building' (his home). He was actually a nice and humble man. His wife, not so much. It's like the affluent TBMs make up their own rules.

Utah Mormons in their 30-40s are extremely competitive and driven by image and perceived success. It may be a generalization but the majority fall in this catagory.

They have an obsession of moving higher up on the hill. Getting up into bigger fancier homes, when the homes and churches they are in are just fine. I've seen this with folks I've known, They would rather be saddled with $300,000 mortgage than to live in a house they can actually afford. They justify this by telling everyone "we want our kids to go to the better schools." which is code for less diversity.

This is a poor (POOR) ward in South America. And not very strict, in my experience.

The issue down here is putting food on one's table. Unemployment is high, most people don't own cars, most kids are lucky to finish high school. There's not a lot of Morridor-type pressure.

Also, Mormons are a definite minority--this is Catholic territory. Social pressures are weak when most of your family members, friends, and neighbors aren't LDS. The extended family is very strong, because it has to be: you have to buy meds for your sick kid; meds are expensive, so you borrow from your uncle or sister-in-law. The church can't hold a candle to the family down here. Family rules. And all those silly little LDS dicta about "family" can't get any traction when the real heavy lifting--darning socks, stretching a chicken to feed the in-laws, walking the daughter to the bus stop to protect her from the drunks on the corner, chipping in for cab fare so the niece who's in labor can get to the hospital--is Job #1. The church's empty words don't matter as much.

I was in a ward that included the very poor to the very wealthy. I saw that the less wealthy were more "obedient" and the affluent used their religion when it was needed (health issues,etc.).

Those who were wealthy didn't need god as much as everyone else. People with less wealth would plead to their god for money or food until the next paycheck and seemed to be more active and involved while the wealthy felt more secure and didn't need to prove their worthiness and were much less concerned with pleasing a god.