Still a tad fuzzy on JS here, but, does anyone think he's been a tad overrated?

Joseph Smith himself said he was better than Jesus. So... How could you call that "overrated?"

And we learn from him and from Brigham Young that Smith will be a sort of advocate for us when we die, that no one will go to heaven without first answering up to Smith. That's pretty damn important.

He was definitely full of himself and did some terrible shit for sure.

But...he did get his religion off the ground and it has been going for almost 200 years now. And it even splintered into various sects.

No he wasn't a real prophet and his church was total crap. But because of him, history definitely was impacted from his actions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2011 03:01AM by raptorjesus.

It's not complicated. Had he not been killed (and made a martyr) he would have gone down in history as a black spot in our national history with perhaps a phallic symbol erected to his narcissism.

To this day the tour guide still passes you a tissue as he tells you Joseph Smith was murdered for his beliefs (instead of for his crimes)


Anagrammy

I think so. Joseph was actually pretty stupid and that is what got him killed. He was a loose cannon dressing up like a general and drilling a militia around and running for president. He was a nutcase.

The real mastermind of the church was Brigham Young. Joseph's immaturity and foolishness killed him and almost killed off the church but Brigham Young grabbed the ball and unfortunately saved it and set a foundation for it to thrive on.

Joseph Smith had sent him off on a mission right near the end of the "Nauvoo Period," after Young had demonstrated leadership in helping lead the Saints from Missouri...

The figure of John C. Bennett emerged at this time, and he was influential in forming the Nauvoo Legion, serving as mayor of the city, etc. Recall that Bennett was expelled from Nauvoo only two years before Smith was killed...

OH BROTHER!! This one has to be seen to be believed (short speech about the "Mormonites," my term for the morons who write revisionist history in Wiki, which I just used to double check a date... Seriously, this one is incredible and almost worthy of a thread of its own...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Bennett

>After Bennett left Nauvoo in May 1842, he claimed he had been the target of an attempted assassination by Nauvoo Danites, who were disguised in drag. [sic]

One can read the rest of the Wiki information on JCB with less of a jaundiced eye; he certainly was one of the more colorful sorts in Old Nauvoo...

With Smith's death, the church did indeed splinter (with Rigdon, Emma, and the Strang factions vying for leadership against BY), and Young led to the bulk of the faithful to the Salt Lake Valley...

Sure, those of us who see Mormonism for what it is can look back on Smith and see a self-destructive buffoon but in his day he was anything but "overrated". Thousands of his disciples truly thought and believed he was a prophet of God. The organization he instituted is still alive and kicking (though we all know, not too well) and millions of modern disciples continue to be deceived by his charisma. Overrated? I don't think so!

If only it would have passed to Joseph Smith's pansy son....

Alas, we cannot change the past.

Anagrammy

Depends on overrated in what way. But he accomplished quite a lot in fifteen years - that's the time from the Book of Mormon was published until he died.

Josiah Quincy and his cousin, Charles Adams (the son of U.S. President John Quincy Adams) visited Joseph Smith shortly before the mob action at Carthage Jail...

Here's the link...

http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/JQuincy.html

>Who can wonder that the chair of the National Executive had its place among the visions of this self-reliant man? He had already traversed the roughest part of the way to that coveted position. Born in the lowest ranks of poverty, without book-learning and with the homeliest of all human names, he had made himself at the age of thirty-nine a power upon earth. Of the multitudinous family of Smith, from adam down (Adam of the "Wealth of Nations," I mean), none had so won human hearts and shaped human lives as this Joseph. His influence, whether for good or for evil, is potent today, and the end is not yet.

>I have endeavored to give the details of my visit to the Mormon prophet with absolute accuracy. If the reader does not know just what to make of Joseph Smith, I cannot help him out of the difficulty. I myself stand helpless before the puzzle.

Quincy is speaking here, of course of Smith's desire to be President of the United States...

My view of this phenomenon is that Smith benefitted from the nature and culture of the "U.S. Frontier" at the time... Recall that there was no mass media as there is today, and I'm doubtful the average Latter Day Saint saw much of the man, but did encounter much of the myth... He did not do much more than give a weekly sermon, had an inner circle of followers who would do his bidding, and was probably shrewd in selecting those he could trust.

"Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fullness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood; and so has his brother Hyrum" (Doctrine and Covenants 135:3).

As a profit seeker and tax evader? ... Not bad!

As a con-artist and charlatan? ... Second to none!

Timothy

Second only to Jesus Christ on the Earth? Overrated? Nah! ;)

I think so.

If Alvin hadn't died we probably wouldn't know much about Joseph Smith, Jr at all.

It's likely Alvin would have been the figurehead and he may have been able to keep his ego in check and his pants zipped long enough to organize the revenue-generating scam that was originally envisioned by the 19th century treasure-hunting superstitious country folk that thought the whole thing up.

I reject any assertions that Joseph Smith, Jr. made up the book of mormon all by himself. I have serious doubts that he even contributed. I think the biggest mistake in kolobian history was in allowing the smith family to run with the ball in the first place. Once they had power, it was all over.

And kudos to Brigham Young for salvaging what was left after carthage. It's just too bad for the kolobians that there's no more wilderness to run off to when people start asking tough questions.

Lucky, that video made me laugh. Of course, I have nothing against the people of the church. I know nothing about Hinckley, so I can't judge him. But that made me laugh at the same time.

If you study the life of Joseph Smith pre-mormonism,
you would noticed Joseph Smith had been a failure in
whatever he sort to do.

I think only someone with a sub-average IQ would have
an absurd idea of claiming to be the only true church
of jesus christ as he did.

The LDS church which he created would soon become a
crumbling mess. Another testament of Joseph Smith's
devilish absurdity.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2011 07:39AM by joho.