Ok I found out one of my old male "priesthood holding la-de-freakin-dah" friends is engaged, since I am a nice human I congratulated him. He messaged me back with an odd message it read "Yeah, I used to want to date you. But in the bishopric and other elders advised against it saying you were not an acceptable choice for a wife. Don't hold it against me please.....I wish you happiness with your boyfriend as well..." this understandably gave me pause, I'm not jealous first off wasn't ever interested in him (he was an UberMormon not my type) but the part about acceptable. So my question to my wonderful brothers of perdition is when you were in the cult did they ever advise you against women for them not being an "Acceptable" choice and why.
Lots of Love your fellow damned to hell where they serve margaritas with little frou frou umbrellas,
Princess Telestia

Long story but, yeah, I got advice but not from my fellow men--from women. Seems a gal I'd met at church (currently my wife) was not "acceptable" to a clique of women at the church. One went so far as to call her a prostitute behind her back. My wife is, in fact, an angel--best human being I've ever met. But she was a lowly hair stylist and not a university-educated upwardly mobile professional like many of her RS sisters; hence the whisper campaign began.

The bishop finally got involved, after which I told him and several other people that the only reason the "whisperers" weren't in the hospital is that they're female, and being the sexist pig I am I only punch men who insult my mate, not women. That shut everybody up, and we've been mostly left alone since then.

Well, I only got the "get married in the temple memo" BUT, on three separate occasions, TBM women told me they could not get serious with me because I hadn't served a mission--each had always dreamed of marrying an RM. Fuck! I hate Mormonism!

I hate that. My NeverMo boyfriend would say this about that;
"fuck that..no good music and no movies for two years would you really prefer a guy whose gone through that brainwashing torture..." about sums up my feelings as well.

I never understand these kinds of confessions. What possible purpose does it serve?

Research mostly.....was mostly wondering if that happens to everyone. The LDS culture is confusing as hell.

I daresay Anon70 was remarking at the confession given by the priesthood holder. No doubt he had feelings about you but why oh why now that he is engagged to be marred would he stir that old pit?

Yes! Sorry wasn't more clear. Why even tell you this as he goes off to marry someone else. What's the point??

He be checking in. He wants to let the little woman that he is going to be off the market and he is giving her one last sporting chance.

I seriously believe that they're ignorant to how cruel it could be to someone. What if she really liked him? Ouch.

Oh I don't know, you'd have to be really thick not to recognize how RUDE that is! It's like sometimes they don't even think of someone as a person unless they're LDS. Below, you wrote about the two guys that told you that you weren't wife material but you had to drag the reason out of them. The latter part is the worse part! To say something so mean and not even explain yourself? The damage that does is way worse, ESPECIALLY when there is more than one person in agreement.

You're right, of course. It's insensitive and rude and you'd have to be a total idiot not to recognize it.

Just glad I actually didn't like him as more than a see-you-once-a-year acquaintance...we never liked anything the same. He listened to country music I despise country music. I love metal (even death metal) he said it was Satan's music....that itself would've been bad.

Not answering your question, but I do recall my brother's bishop trying to get him married off a couple times to Sweet Spirits; one time he literally said the bishop had a dream about one of them. Lights were on, but nobody home...

Nothing against sweet spirits, but he finally got married to a nice girl.

Sweet Spirits...I still think that more fits a candy flavored alcohol than a woman.

Port wine is a very sweet spirit!

See? elderolddog speaks the truth! He should be the Profit!

Don't give him any ideas... but he's right about the port, of course...

When I was a senior in high school, my Mormon girlfriend's family had moved out of town, so I started dating a non-Mormon classmate. We got along fine, she was good-natured and intelligent, although we never got serious - just some good times kissing and making out and going to movies and school dances. She wasn't especially pretty, and was what they used to call "big boned," but I liked her.

My father, who was in the stake presidency, told me that he was concerned about my friendship with her. The reason? "She would not be very good breeding stock."

"Breeding Stock"...wow isn't that a farming term? Like for cows, pigs, sheep, goats, etc.? The Church is great at comparing humans to barnyard critters.

When my two year tour of Hell ended I was instructed to find a wife as quickly as I could and start making babies. Up to now I had been instructed to avoid the women, don't look at them, don't talk to them, and for gawd's sake don't ever be alone with one of them. So, I was pretty much scared of women.

But, now it was time to find one and hook up. I only knew two girls, one was a sister to my best friend and the other lived next door. There was a girl up the street who I thought was cute, but my Dad told me not to even think about dating her as she wasn't up to my standards. How the hell my Dad knew what my standards were was a mystery. He told me to only consider mormon girls as the rest were not worthy enough.

So, I took my friend's sister out on a date. A real date! Just her and me and nobody else. Then I took the girl next door out on a date, just the two of us. Both of these girls had the blessings of my Dad. I was more comfortable with the second girl and she was also being primped to find a returned missionary. Seven months later we sealed the deal in the temple.

All through my growing up years I was taught to marry a mormon girl and not settle for anything less. Seminary teachers reinforced that teaching as well. They told me, "if you only date mormon girls, then you will only marry a mormon girl" or something like that.

My wife, on the other hand, was told by numerous people not to marry me as I would never go very high in the church. There was no history of anyone in my family of ever being a bishop or higher.

Don't leave us hanging --- how'd things turn out?

The very problem my future in-laws had with me--as a former foster child, I could not be expected to go high in leadership. So as my GF and I were supposedly very serious and talking marriage, she abruptly left me for a divorced minor church royal from the illustrious Woodruff family. They got engaged, and he strung her out for most of a year, finally breaking off the marriage within a week of the date, after people had thrown two wedding showers. I found out much later that my MIL--yes, I eventually married my GF--was forced to go to the ward chapel where the reception was to be held, and hang out in parking lot to turn away disappointed and surprised guests. MIL was humiliated. Heh-heh. We all eventually found out that this guy's first wife had divorced him for physical and emotional abuse. Now he's been married 4 times, and has known a number of leadership jobs despite some real dodgy behavior. But my in-laws were right, after all: I've never amounted to much in the church, have I?

Goodnight this brings back bad memories!!!

How I used to explode if someone in tscc talked about women like breeding stock. One young man I was dating had a brother who had been married a few years and they had not had any children. The marriage was experiencing difficulties. The concern was that she couldn't have children at all. NO ONE had been tested or anything, it was just assumed it was HER fault.

I was LIVID when I was told that the family had been discussing it all and she was put in a bad light. I exploded (to my boyfriend) 'Well so what if she can't have children? That doesn't make her any less of a human being, and she is STILL a lovely woman! There is adoption you know!!!". My boyfriend had not agreed with the family discussion and had been very upset with some of his Dad's comments in particular, so he somewhat hesitantly agreed with me, realising in doing so he was being disloyal to his family.

I was always so tempted to point out the scripture "Judge not that ye be not judged" to people like that, but of course what was I doing but judging heh heh??? Not a scripture I can even begin to understand!!

The one thing I HATED about mormonism was the demand that everyone follow the EXPECTED path in the right order and with aplomb, no matter that humanity simply does NOT work like that. What CROCK!!!!

The women in the singles ward including the bishopric wives were really angry that I landed my husband. I got dirty looks all the time. I tried to give him to someone else so someone else could save him.

And 1-1/2 years ago, the old bishop's wife stopped to talk to my husband's workers to ask about what our status was and her questions came across as it was my problem and that I had wanted more spousal support. Spousal support never even came up when my GAY husband left me.

Still, after 32 years, it is still my fault he is gay. Go figure.

I wouldn't date nonmormons until the extremely TBM neighbor told my mother that someone needed to date them. So I did, but I wouldn't marry them.

I had no problem getting dates with nonmormons. They weren't threatened by my independence and free-thinking.

I did find it crazy that I had many of the singles ward guys tell me after I was engaged that they had wanted to date me and then some of them said that my husband was too quick for them and snatched me out of their grasp. Yep, a gay guy was quicker at snatching me as a wife than they were.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2016 06:12PM by cl2.

What an odd thing for him to say. He couldn't just say "thank you" and leave it at that?

I think I'd message back and say something like, "No worries. I won't hold it against you. I didn't find you acceptable either."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2016 07:07PM by want2bx.

I know right Mormons are a bizarre species (male or female).......

My Dad told me two things.

1. Women in Stag films only do those things because they are paid too. Don't excpect your wife to do them.

2. Beware of women from California.

3. Don't marry anyone from Davis county. You're probably realted.

I never had any offial church interference.

However.

My brother was reluctant to marry and the Bishop basically told him to marry a slightly older gal that couldn't seem to find a husband.

My other brother was steered away from a gal until she converted. Then she was acceptable for marriagem

Sorry my phone is acting up realted should be related.

"1. Women in Stag films only do those things because they are paid too. Don't excpect your wife to do them."

If my father had told me that, my response would have been "What's a stag film?"

Also: your father doesn't know my wife. :-)

> If my father had told me that, my response would
> have been "What's a stag film?"

The adult version of Bambi?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2016 09:36PM by quatermass2.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2016 09:37PM by quatermass2.

Stag films were the old term for pornos.

In ancient times you needed a film projector and a roll of film.

You projected the images on the wall.

The overarching point of all this is that "acceptable" is
determined by the Church and someone is deemed "acceptable" or
"unacceptable" based on how good they think the marriage would
be FOR THE CHURCH. Nobody cares about your happiness. As
usual, it's all about THEM.

I wasn't über enough to seek ANY kind of advice from priesthood leaders. And I paid very little attention to their unsolicited advice.

I was told by a missionary who I was friends with that he'd never consider me marrying material. His companion hinted the same. When he said that, I pressed him for the reason. Eventually he let it out that because I was married before (no longer a virgin) he could never, ew, ick, disgusting chewed piece of gum. So, yeah. fuck you, too.

How very tactful!

Seriously, what an insensitive thing to say to anybody.

And I've always wondered about that "72 virgins in paradise" promise. I mean, think about it. C'mon, chaps ... virgins?

Now if the promise had been "72 porn-star-experience-level, filthy, dirty, uber-skilled sluts in paradise" ...

;)

I was told the same thing.
Yeah I got married in the temple at 18 and divorced his sorry ass 2 years later.

No mormon guys would give me the time of day. You'd have thought I was a 50 year old woman with 10 kids. I didn't have any kids.

I was disgusted at being treated that way, and left the church. I dated only nevermos after that. What a blessed relief. The manners of the nevermos was sooooo much better. The dates were higher quality, and they could actually have a conversation. They were better employed and weren't counting every penny they spent on their dates. None of them ever took me out for fast food and a movie. That was the M O for the mormon guys. They liked it even better if you wanted to spend a night in and you cook dinner and watch a rented movie. I never dated a mormon guy that wasn't a total cheapskate. They also wouldn't keep their hands to themselves. If you came onto them though, they'd run like the wind. Crazy making at its best.

If there were any bishops that advised mormon guys to not date me, i'd like to thank him for that.

I think the version of Mormonism operating in the late '70s must have been a kind of 'gentler' kind, inasmuch as there wasn't the uber-strictness around.

The only rule I ever heard given out about dating (for both sexes) was 'don't date non-members'.

Back in the 60s, I dated two young ladies, one in high school, one just before the mission, who thought their daughters could do better than going with a Lamanite who was so brown!

The latter young lady's mother pointed out to her, along with a review of certain book of mormon scripture, that I was not getting whiter, but actually browner. Can't argue with facts!


ETA: to be fair, at the Y, as an RM, I was never turned down for a date.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2016 10:38PM by elderolddog.

I dated several Lamanite girls in the 70s and even married one, even sealed to her in the temple.

Any comments I got from family I gently reminded that great grandpa had two Lamanite wives at the request of Brigham Young.

Any other TBM I forcefully reminded that Lamanites were of the house of Israel and hence God's chosen just like us pure Ephraimites.

They'd stutter a bit and walk away.

I am at a loss as to why he would feel compelled to share such unkind remarks with you. Honestly, I would drop him from my friends list. Friends should treat you better than that.

I would be tempted to respond: "Wow! That is so strange. I wasn't really thinking of you in that way, and those same guys came to me and said that you were an unacceptable choice for a husband. I thought it was bizarre at the time, but now it's really strange. Oh well, Mormons."

No!

Had they advised me against it, I would have taken that as a sign...

I'd have probably dated you anyway. I ALWAYS want the best.

Reply, "Well, I hope it works out anyway" (you seen to be bothered by my well wishes and envious of my happy-for-you poison), and you'll eventually die happy ever after.

"And, no, you're wrong. I am the pinnacle of happiness and I don't put it off until "eternity"/ later/ the end/ until it's too late".

Yes, absolutely.
In fact, I was told by my bishop, when he found out I was dating a (gasp!) Catholic girl, that I needed to dump her immediately, or she would drag me straight to hell. What with the loose morals and all of Catholics.

And idiot that I was, I "obeyed."

Crap.

There was a guy who wanted to date me but his mom wouldn't allow it. Her husband was the bishop who had put me through a bishop's court and disciplined me for being a disgusting whore who asked to be raped (eye roll), so she decided I was an incorrigible slut and she did not want me influencing her son to do the nasty. So she refused to let him ask me out.

After he left for college, his younger brother also decided he was interested in me. We had a snow day off school one day and he called me to give me a heads up that his mom was on her way over to my house to blindside me. He said, "I want to ask you out, but my mom won't let me until she talks to you first, so I wanted to let you know she's on her way over there. Would you mind calling me after she leaves so we can talk about whatever she said?"

I dated that guy for months because he had the class and guts to give me that heads up, which I greatly appreciated. I liked his brother more and wouldn't have even dated him if he hadn't done that.

Anyway, she showed up a few minutes after I hung up with him and took me out to lunch. She told me she wanted her sons to be mission- and temple-worthy and straight up told me she wouldn't let the older son ask me out because she didn't think she could trust me with him. But the younger son was more persistent (and gave fewer fucks, bless his heart), so he'd worn her down, but she wanted to give me a warning about behaving NOT like a slut whenever I was with him.

I was furious.

First, what makes her think a rape victim is now going to be a filthy slut because rape-sex is so enjoyable that, once you break the seal, you can't help it, you're just going to hop on every dick that passes by? Maybe that was HER experience. But it wasn't mine. I was 17; I was not that interested in an intimate relationship yet. Not that intimate. What really made me angry was the implication that I didn't care about my worthiness or spirituality at all, that I was happy to break all the rules and bang all the boys. What's the whole point of repentance if you'll never be forgiven or ever have that repentance acknowledged at all? Why did I work so hard to get back in the bishop's good graces then? Because I didn't care about mission-temple-marriage worthiness? I wouldn't have gone through all that humiliation if I didn't care about those things.

And ironically, it was that very conversation that helped me stop caring about worthiness and rule-following. If anything, that conversation cemented for me the idea that I would leave the church as soon as I got out of my dad's house. I went to a secular, state college and never looked back or considered returning to church.

I really owe her my gratitude because if it wasn't for her judgmental hypocrisy, I'd probably have waited for older son to return from college + mission and married him in some shitty temple and had a bunch of kids I wasn't interested in having. Instead, I got to start my adult life on my own terms and couldn't be happier about not being a mormon anymore.

Wow, dogzilla. Just...wow.

I have to wonder why the bishop's wife knew your "sordid" history (being raped and then disciplined for it) anyway...?
Did the bishop reveal all the details about everybody he "disciplined" to his wife, voiding any and all confidentiality?

What a bunch of tools.

I have always asked myself those very same questions. I've found the entire family via the internet. I have not bothered to try to contact any of them, but I know where they all live. (Journalists are REALLY good at digging up dirt/finding people.)

There's another chapter to this story, I think.

30 years later, I'm talking to TBM dad on the phone. He starts telling me, without naming names, about this woman who was in our ward whom everyone thought was so nice and funny and charming. One of her now-adult children was visiting the old ward and Dad had a convo with this person. He was told that this one woman had been raped/abused as a teenager and how she was somehow pressured into marrying the guy she married. She wasn't all that interested in having four kids, so the last one was sort of halfway neglected. Emotionally ignored, I suspect. So this adult-child-of-this-woman told my dad that the youngest child was sort of semi-abused throughout their childhood, as if the mom resented the whole SAHM thing. And so my dad found out that she was rather nasty and abusive behind closed doors while these kids were growing up.

Now, he refused to tell me who he was talking about, but all of that really meshed with what I'd been told by these two boys I'd hung out with all through YM/YW years. I learned a lot about this mom from her sons and I respected the family's privacy and didn't go blabbing about the ward about it.

But when you look at this woman's behavior toward me in this light -- that perhaps she, too, had been abused as a teen and was also punished for it -- perhaps it isn't such shocking behavior toward me on her part. It all screams to me -- with years of psych study and life experience under my belt -- of rape-related PTSD. She was hyper controlling and had a lot of really strict, weird rules -- stereotypical Utah/Idaho mormon mom. I think she was terrified her kids might have sex or do something sort of sexual and then be shamed and reviled and vilified and hate themselves and you know... how one feels after one is treated like complete shit for being a sexual being and exploring one's sexuality at an appropriate age (late teens).

While it could have been the mom of two other families, I'm pretty sure Dad was talking about this woman. The children of the other two families were all pretty well-adjusted and their parents were a bit more reasonable about family rules. The daughters in the other two families dated non-mos and brought their dates to church (once a girl brought this guy who I'd had a mad crush on in Kindergarden and we were both horrified to remember each other, lol).

So I'm just going to assume that either the bishop just straight up told his wife about what happened with me (because they were discussing allowing their sons to date me) or she knew from the ward grapevine/leadership meetings. Or my stepmonster straight up outed me as a Slut. Mormons have no boundaries and there is no privacy or confidentiality in the church.

Your story actually made me sick, mad, and sad at the same time. Hate the Mormons and their pro-rape agenda (they can deny it but that's what it is PRO-RAPE!!!).

My wife works with an RM who returned from his mission a couple years ago. His parents, particularly his BIC mom, are very keen on him finding a good Mormon girl to marry.

He was happily dating a woman a little over a year ago. but his mother poisoned that relationship soon after it stared because the young woman wasn't Mormon.

He dated another non-Mormon on the sly after that, but it was destined to fail because of the stress of keeping the relationship hidden from his parents and the guilt of the relationship's very "non-Mormon" nature.

He recently started dating a young RM woman. He is a little lukewarm about the relationship, but his mother is over the moon with joy. Everybody...everybody but my wife's RM coworker, that is...is talking about how he will pop the question any day now.

And therein lies the dilemma: Have a loveless, sexless, joyless marriage that your parents/church approve of or marry someone you love and want to fuck on the daily?

I'd totally go for Door #2, but I understand completely why these young people with so very little life experience don't understand that this mormon temple marriage doctrine is made up bullshit so they don't follow their hearts.

If the RM coworker ends up marrying this poor mormon girl (whom he clearly doesn't love that much), they will be headed for divorce within five years and one or both of them will end up on this site, crying in their Corn Flakes about how angry they are for succumbing to the pressure.

After a conversation with him 6 months ago, I was sure that he was already on his way out of the church. We didn't talk about TSCC directly, but he was clearly chafing from his mother's apron strings and felt that his life was no longer his to live as he saw fit.

Since he is still living with his parents and he is still dependent on them to complete his college education, I imagine that we are seeing the result of redoubled pressure from his queen mother (particularly since the RM's princess sister has recently married an RM prince of her own). I don't remember who she's related to, but I remember my wife telling me the mother is descended from Mormon "royalty". It was quite the scandal, I guess, when she married a mere convert.

In 1977 I met and dated a wonderful young lady (not LDS) We were totally in love and we both felt we were meant for each other. My bishop had other ideas of course and told me I would go to hell basically if I had sex with her and didn't marry a member of the church in the temple. It has been almost 40 years and I have never forgiven myself for the pain I caused her when I broke up with her because of what my bishop told me. Have to be pure to serve the Lord and not lose my virginity. I hope I can see her again someday and try to explain why I did what I did. The pain is still there after all these years. I will never forget the look in her eyes...haunts me to this day. Gosh I hate the Mormon Church. I did go on a mission and married another young lady in the temple but this still haunts me.
Princess Telestia you are amazing! I love your posts.

My story is a bit different, but I think it fits the thread...

Shortly after we were married, my wife, for a variety of reasons went inactive. I was surprisingly OK with it, given my very TBM nature. I understood the reasons she no longer wished to go to church and while, at the time, I had hoped for her to become active again, I wasn't going to pressure her (and she didn't pressure me to stop, well except for the time that she pointed out just how much time the church was taking up in my life, which was a very valid complaint.), I actually believed in free-agency.

Anyway, I was young and a returned missionary, I was also attending church without my wife... This caused two things to happen, people at church looked at me sadly, coming up with all kinds of horrible things that I must be enduring as my wife must be a horrible sinner, causing me no end of trouble at home. I did my best to correct peoples thoughts on this. After all, I married an amazing woman and regardless of her church activity, my love for her never wavered. It amazed me what people would assume about others. I learned a lot from that.

The second thing was that people kept telling me that I should leave my wife and find someone "worthy"... Sometimes this was subtle, other times people were blunt. I was amazed that people would try to break up a happy marriage. I would try to convince them that I was happy in my marriage and I had no desire to leave my wife. So, rather than try to befriend my wife and understand why she wasn't attending, they simply wanted me to walk away.

This got old quick, and it had the opposite effect that they wanted, and became a big factor in my going inactive as well. My marriage was more important to me than my church activity. I still believed for a long time, but I had no desire to be around judgmental people telling me how to handle my marriage and talking down about my wonderful wife.