Over Thanksgiving I visited with a close friend who worried about allowing his teen-age son open access to the internet. Currently his son is not allowed on-line without his parent's permission. I feel that this creates a controlling environment BUT I also agree on some level that unlimited porn access may not be good for a growing 14-year-old.

Of course my friend is worried about what will happen when his son reaches 18 and goes off to college.

Any advice and/or different perspectives are greatly appreciated.

a lot of things in life can be addictions;

I think there's little helpful about porn, and it can objectify both men & women with little benefit (except to the porn industry).

I wish people would be / would have been raised nudist / in nudist families where the sight of other ppl without clothes is more of an item without a stigma. In that regard, I think it's a bit like swearing; society creates the 'wrong', but how can it be good?

I also believe that porn can mentally / subtly reduce the value of people as seen by a porn viewer.

Then there's the aspect of expectations of others (spouse, partner, parents) which should be honored.

Porn has evidently changed quite a bit from my youth, when it was merely naughty. Back then, most nevermo boys looked at porn, at least furtively, and it was not considered remarkable.

I think that parents need to talk to their teenage children about pornography in a way that is age appropriate, and that doesn't simply rely on, "Don't go there." The kids will go there eventually anyway, and they need to know how to deal with it.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think that parents need to talk to their teenage
> children about pornography in a way that is age
> appropriate, and that doesn't simply rely on,
> "Don't go there." The kids will go there
> eventually anyway, and they need to know how to
> deal with it.

Bingo.
And the same with any other potentially harmful behavior or substance.

Simply "forbidding" such things, or trying to control your kids so they never encounter them, is both ridiculous and counter-productive. And the more a parent makes something seem like "forbidden fruit," the more likely kids are to want to check it out.

Teach your kids to think things through, rather than obey you. Teach your kids to assess the values and risks of things, rather than pretend they don't exist. Teach your kids to make their own reasonable decisions, rather than do what you tell them to do "just because you said so."
They'll be fine. In fact, they'll be far better off when they do encounter things like porn (and they will) than the kids whose parents made them forbidden, because they'll be armed with information and good thinking skills.

Sounds like a typical permissive idiot parent. smh.

Whose children stand far less chance of contracting STDs and /or getting pregnant. Abstinence-only DOESN'T WORK. PERIOD.

The idiots are those who don't heed stats about which kids get pregnant, use drugs and develop addictions. Hint: it's not usually the permissive parents' kids.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2016 01:47PM by woodsmoke.

Exactly

That may be the least perceptive thing anyone has said on this board in weeks.

Yes, but mainly to those who don't get to see any of it.

Internet is not equal to porn. Don't these parents know that?

Well, there is the addiction aspect, but that is covered in other topics.

I am not a parent so can only speak in light of others experiences; stuff I've heard or read about, basically.

It seems one of the main problems is that porn may create unrealistic expectations regarding 'ordinary' sex (ie, that based in reaity). Porn is, basically, 'fantasy sex' not 'real sex'. Can porn be fun? At times, yes. But it's not real and it doesn't represent real life. To use a crude analogy, I enjoy watching Star Trek, Star Wars etc. Good fun, entertaining. But it's fantasy spaceflight and bears no relation to day-to-day spaceflight in reality aboard the ISS.

Many recommend that parents have an honest talk with kids about porn and its relation to reality.

Oh, and porn is not just an issue for young males either.

And I remember reading that an expert on such matters cautioned parents against thinking their kids would never get to see porn or come up against it. It was suggested that any parent who thinks this is fooling themselves.

I would not worry so about porn but about my child going on date sites or otherwise chatting with dangerous people who pose to be one type of harmless friendly person when they are predators. This is a legitimate concern.

Tricky question!

First, let me go back in my memory to when I was an adolescent... dinosaurs roamed the Earth... the number "7" had just been invented... Thomas S. Monson was celebrating his 70th birthday...

Okay, now I remember. There was porn then, as now, but porn was never serious competition for the real thing. Given the choice between spending an hour with the latest "Playboy" versus spending an hour trying to get to third base with that hottie from English Lit class, the hottie, though much more difficult and scary and likely unsuccessful to access, always won out. Porn was never more than a back-up plan.

Consider "sexting." If that had been around way back when and some cutie sent me the message, "I'm not wearing panties," I would have forgotten that porn existed.

So: IMO it's MUCH more important to go over the ground rules with an adolescent concerning actual person-to-person sex. I personally think that sex is a good, healthy thing and that adolescents who practice intelligent sex have an advantage as life unfolds and are more likely to have healthy minds, good relationships, and good families. (I'm not a big fan of abstinance for abstinance's sake.)

So instead of talking about porn I'd first ensure that my teenager was clear on the following: Consent/respecting limits. Gender choices (e.g., having sex with the same sex, the other sex, or both). Preventing STDs. Preventing pregnancy.

I've had these conversations with both my daughter and stepdaughters and feel that they have made intelligent choices as a result. And getting set on the above topics means that potential problems with porn will largely take care of themselves, IMO.

Acts that were considered extreme, kink, and in the BDSM variety are now featured in a good amount of mainstream porn. Watching this when you're young and don't understand the context behind the scenes causes some issues with how young males view women and sexuality. They don't understand the prep and check-off list that's required before engaging in these scene. Nor are they given the concept of consent and think these are typical acts that everyone participates in. Parents are dropping the ball by not giving them life-long, comprehensive sexual education that includes the concept of consent, and fantasy vs reality.

I found out recently that on of my 5th graders last year was being physically abused by her 5th grade "boyfriend." This is in addition to some of my well-founded suspicions about this kid. Kids are seeing this stuff younger and it is affecting their
healthy sexual development.

I don't have a problem with porn, I watch it on occasion myself. I have a problem with people who poo-poo that it is causing problems for some people and warping their sexual development.

Excellent comment(s), Itz.

LDS youngsters weren't taught that there was Healthy sex between adults (possible changed lately), they were only exampled of baby-making, which they found out that they could also participate in.

Mormonism is 'religion on steroids', and their teachings about sex & sexuality followed that pattern.

Exactly.

Nothing wrong with BDSM, even extreme, between kink-positive, knowledgeable, consenting adults. Unfortunately, seeing it without context as a very young teen could really confuse people, I feel, especially about women. And like Itz says, that is MOST porn now. I've actually had to search for something that didn't include EXTREME acts (and I am no wilting flower, I'm not talking about group sex or oral here).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2016 12:59PM by woodsmoke.

As a young woman, I watched porn quite a bit. Especially when I was curious. Some of it I liked, most I didn't. I'd say, in moderation it's fine, just like anything else. Eventually you learn that it's not all that amazing, but it's fine for a quick fix. If it takes over your time or affects your sex life, yes, it is an issue.

Mormons are the only ones worried about porn. The vast majority of people view it and it hasn't taken over their lives. That said, I don't believe in sanitizing my children's interactions with the internet and the rest of the world. If you raise them well they will be able to make good decisions all on their own. That doesn't mean they shoudln't be monitored, but they definitely shouldn't be under 24/7 surveillance.

If your friend is worried about the decisions his son will make after he goes to college then his parenting style probably isn't cutting it. Now no parent is perfect, and I'm not saying I am, but kids are poeple too. If you don't teach them how to function on their own how are they going to do it after they move out? An oppressive home environment creates kids who act out.

Let's be Explicit here:

male 'porn stars' are selected for Size & Stamina, although there are rumors that 'stunt cocks' fill in for the 'real actors', ha ha

women (again rumors) need to be 'super horny', and substitute (men also) sex for real intimacy & affection.

Isn't porn about dropping otherwise normal flow of trust & honesty in mature relationships?

IMO, those depictions undermine caring, honest, relationship development.

My three thoughts that don't seem to be about porn but are:

If you have lobster,caviar, and champagne every single day it goes from special to boring to unpalatable. This is what the young should know.

Every thrill seeker eventually goes for more dangerous stunts than the last ones. The young need to know where the road leads.

When you meet the right person, everything will feel new again. Always treasure that when it happens. Love and sex are actually two very different things. Although, sometimes the two collide and stars appear.



Bonus thought number four: If there is a squirrel within a mile radius my dog will find it and I can't stop him. That is what adults should know.

R U really Paul Dunn?

How did you know? This back from the dead thing is working out well incidentally.

wow you could remodel that just a little bit, add some scripture reading and you would have a great talk for Sackermint meeting !!!

Thanks everyone for your comments. I think we can agree that porn isn't as bad as the church would make it out to be BUT I'm not sure that watching it regularly is devoid of complications.

How can someone bridge the gap between internet abstinence and allowing their son to view porn? I'm not sure there is a middle ground here...is there?

I don't think parents should "allow" the viewing of porn. I don't like a middle ground. Monitoring a child's porn is sick.

I think it should stay like it was back in my day. Adults should make it against the rules knowing the kids will do it anyway if they get a chance.

The kids need to be really careful not to get caught. Most likely they will get caught at least once and the parents should pretend like they didn't see anything.


What the parents can do is make sure the kids know what healthy relationships are. Teach them the good stuff. They need to know that no means no and what is a respectable way to treat each other. Teach them what is appropriate behavior and what is not in clear and certain terms. Everyone should get the handbook of the rules before they play the game.

In other words, don't just tell them "not to," but also tell them why and what the consequences can be if they engage in behavior that society in general (not Mormons) deems inappropriate.

I'm pretty clear with my kids. Computers have personal information. Unsavory sites exist to steal that information. Don't go there because you are putting your personal information at risk.

As for porn, see above.

The point of the matter is not that it can alter perspective or distort expectations in a relationship. The point is that it is going to be viewed and your best defense in this is to try and educate and demonstrate what an appropriate perspective or expectation is.

What About for young women, some of whom might have been victimized by young men (said to be More visually oriented) fueled by watching porn....

I never worried about my son looking at porn. What worried me is that he would meet some pervert disguised as a kid online.

I had almost no access to real porn back in my formative years other than the odd Playboy and it served it's purpose to get the job done...and I was a walking hormone at the time. After we got married my wife and I used to head south to Great Falls, MT for a weekend away from the kids and hit the adult theatre and then enjoy the night doing what young horny married couples do. No problems at all.

RB

Is (was) porn outlawed in Canada.... or was that a local situation where U lived (Mormon influence)?

I never saw an adult movie theatre in Alberta....video porn showed up about the time VHS was being replaced by DVD's at the rental shops and then the internet took over.

RB

Canada has had 100% nude strip clubs for a long time. Living in Cleveland, Ohio in the 1990s, I used to run over to Windsor or Niagara Falls occasionally for a little spiritual enlightenment. I haven't been back lately, but rumor has it that these clubs have fallen on hard times with competition from the internet and a decline in U.S. patronage due to tightening up of border security. The Canadian nudie-bar experience is said to have deteriorated significantly.

Once when entering Canada, my car was searched and the officer explained that porn showing "explicit sex acts" (paraphrasing here) was forbidden.

As for the porn problem for young men, from my own experience growing up nevermo in Alabama in the 1950s and early 60s, the two main problems were: (1) getting it; and (2) hiding it. Once in college, it wasn't much of a problem.

Best wishes.

Damn near every tavern (they weren't allowed to be called "bar's" in Alberta until the liquor business was privatized a couple decades ago) in Canada had strippers at one time or another that took it ALL off and we had a dedicated gentleman's/strip club downtown in Lethbridge. I'm surprised it's still open given the pervasiveness of internet porn.

RB

I grew up in Great Falls. There was an adult theater?? Where??

Central Avenue downtown about 5 doors east of the Civic Center...next to an antique shop. Closed us years ago. We went back in the 80's,

RB

praydude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Over Thanksgiving I visited with a close friend
> who worried about allowing his teen-age son open
> access to the internet. Currently his son is not
> allowed on-line without his parent's permission.

14 is pribably too old for this much control. It speaks to lack of parental trust, and the youngster's capabilities, accomplishments and judgement (none?). In two very brief years, the "kid" will be given car keys and driving lessons. It goes without saying that he had better have a well-developed sense of best self-interests at that point. They have a very short four years to get him to a point to cut him loose, and are focused on porn / internet choices? Bad use of resources and influence.



> I feel that this creates a controlling environment
> BUT I also agree on some level that unlimited porn
> access may not be good for a growing 14-year-old.
>

Agreed on the former, doubtful on the latter. I don't think that making porn a forbidden fruit can be helpful. Ultimately, his sexual choices will be his own, and open and frank discussions, "Son, ask anything you want, and we can talk." is the best "defense" against unhealthy choices.


> Of course my friend is worried about what will
> happen when his son reaches 18 and goes off to
> college.


...and should be, at this point. Preparing kids for the world-at-large does not mean sequestering their minds, options or choices. It means also letting them make and learn from mistakes and poor choices, so that when they face failure on their own, they are not crippled by it, but have tools for moving forward, to recompense and go beyond a bad result. It is about thinking, not being consumed by fear of making a mistake.

The bottom line is that I'd be way more focused on car keys than porn or the internet. He should be well on his way to safely navigating the internet. I would give him free access, with "regular" parental monitoring, i.e., letting him know that his online choices will be reviewed for safety - predator activity, revealing personally identifying info, entering sites not legal for 14 year olds. Access would be contingent on very well defined rules - even written rules. Since porn is not legal for 14, this would be a "bad choice" from which he would learn, via a defined "lack of access" term. The sneaky parental bonus here is the law. They don't have to take the blame - it's illegal, period. They don't have to appear to be meddling in his sexual choices.

At 14, I was quizzing her about intersections, routes, maps, peripheral vision (watching sides of roads and letting brain keep her in her lane), counting seconds between moving vehicles, etc. All of that was second nature by the time she got keys. No accidents, and yes, I know that's also luck, but don't underestimate training. She had already built her PC to interface with the internet (2001, no wifi or WIN 7). She wanted it, so she learned and earned a right to it.

>
> Any advice and/or different perspectives are
> greatly appreciated.


You're very welcome, and obviously just MHO. I hope it doesn't seem contradictory to give the access, with rules. It's like giving the keys, contingent on minding the laws of the road, getting to school and home on time, helping to run errands, etc. It's parental opportunity for teaching that all human interaction and transactions abide by rules.

Lots of teenage anxiety and depression out there because of little active guidance in participating in "real life." We've trended toward sheltering them. They don't know what's expected or what to anticipate, how to envision options or make choices. They need to be contributors to their own futures, now. Including staying safe.

"Yeah, dad, I got this."

If they are trained, we can have more than faith in that statement.

I totally agree with you. I like the car-driving analogy. I also think it would be helpful to allow on-line access with periodical monitoring.

My wife has always said "how can we not trust our kids and expect them to become grow up and become trustworthy?"

I also like the Brother Of Jerry's comments about fantasy guilt and fantasy authoritarianism. It is a fool's errand to try and control people and expect good results.

Thanks everyone for your feedback!

I think the parents have been more damaged by the fantasy guilt, fantasy authoritarianism, and fantasy exaltation of Mormonism (assuming they're Mo) than the kid will ever be by fantasy sex.

The son is not the neurotic one in this picture. Not yet, anyway.

Right ON.

There are various studies citing porn's deleterious effects. We're not just talking about watching two people have sex here. We're talking about a fake plastic woman allowing men to stick their fists in her vag, pull her hair,etc. that's not sex it's abuse. Porn normalizes abuse. Of course the LDS church is so sexually oppressive it's no wonder that those kids are having such a problem with it. I happen to go by the school of thought that there's a healthy balance between "don't touch anyone, not even yourself!" And this sex positivity (aka f* anything that breathes) nonsense which takes the love and connection out of sexuality and hurts women. I should say too that I'm not religious but ive seen porn and I would just die if my significant other treated me the way men treat women in porn.

I always find that when you are having a discussion that includes extremes that you should always go to the extreme to make your point.

I think Christianity is bad because it isn't just faith and good works. It is also the brutal torture and murder of a god. Funny, Christians got all up in it over Phillip Pullman but he was just coping a tried and true recipe.

You are right that there is a healthy balance.

Not to mention that a very large number of those women are NOT "allowing" men to do it. Many are addicts or being trafficked/forced or otherwise pressured, and a large number of both the men and wonen were abused as kids. A much higher number than makes us comfortable. Much higher than one would expect.

You could explain the ugly reality of the porn industry. STDs are rampant, the workers are often exploited, and it leaves its actors worse off than when they started. If you want to see people making money off human misery, you might as well go to the doctor's office.

Also many porn sites have viruses that will infect your computer. Maybe not a problem with phones, but I had to wipe and reinstall the family computer several times.

Determine if your kid can pass the "marshmallow test". If so, you only need to explain the mechanics and psychology of porn once. Well, maybe a few times if you get into technical stuff like dopamine and brain development that's over his head now.

In other words, porn is not a spiritual problem. It's a human problem.

I wouldn't like one of my children to date (be alone with) Anyone addicted or heavily influenced by porn, male or female, young or old.

Mixed opinion with me, I think some types are damaging (BDSM is the biggest with me). Anything that shows abuse is ok is disturbing to me personally.....Odd though how many women who hate visual porn here in Utah love Fifty shades of Gray and tell me they want a Christian Gray type man,,,,,,

Did you know that people who practice BDSM responsibly have the healthiest sex lives? People in the scene have some pretty strong ethics about safe, sane, and consensual practices. of course there's the whackos that infiltrate the scene and are abusive, but that's found in every scene, sexual or not.

Polydipsia is a psychiatric condition in which an individual over indulges in the consumption of fluids..... usually water. It is a recognized clinical condition. Porn/sex addiction is not. The so-called sex addiction research is not generally accepted as valid scientific research subject to peer review. Having said that, are there people who behave in ways that are so disregulated that they suffer deliterious consequences. You betcha. But looking at porn is not inherently damaging any more than drinking water in healthy amounts.

Controlling a teenager's sex life is absurd. Teaching a teenager about human sexuality is not. And I would suggest not just teaching them about the plumbing, but teaching them to be GOOD at sex. Giving them a repertoire of techniques so that they will be good sexual partners. Teaching them skills. Having a frank and open discussion about how to please themselves and their partners. The idea that fumbling around in the dark is some how healthy is akin to assuming they learn how to drive a car by trial and error. The idea that kids are so stupid they don't realize that porn is entertainment is similar to assuming they will drive like a character from a car chase movie if they watched that.

When a parent talks about giving permission for a child to watch Porn, I wonder did they give the child "permission" to masturbate?

Are there outlier examples of individuals who have been abused or damaged by their participation in porn. Sure there are but NOT as many as some posters like to imply. I have worked in around the industry for a long time and most of the folks did it as a job. I was asked to be in a porn movie and had some reservations but they were overcome when i realiZed some day I would be sitting in a rocking chair on the porch of my nursing home and think "aww crap I missed out on that" or just rock back and forth and laugh about a fun memory. I went for the latter.

As for BdSm....if you don't know how to swim stay the hell out of the deep end.

1. I don't understand why this question is about young men. Does the OP actually think that women do not have sex drives or indulge in porn, ever? Really? Why is the question not "Is porn a problem for young people?"

2. This parent shouldn't be concerned about what happens when the kid goes off to college. At that point, he will be an adult and his sex life, or lack thereof, is his own business and nobody else's. No one should be in the business of controlling or monitoring another grown adult's sexuality.

3. In my experience, young people do engage with porn sometimes lacking any other useful information/education. It's not necessarily damaging, but if there's a mature adult around to not freak out and panic and instead, talk to the kid about it, then there's a teachable moment where one can put what the kid sees into context/perspective.

4. I really like Satans Little Helper's comments but I'm wondering exactly how one would go about teaching a kid sex skills. I have no idea how you teach someone else to be good at sex without actually having sex with that person. All I could think of is talking about it a lot so the kid grows up being comfortable talking about things with his/her partner before actually doing anything. I wouldn't recommend porn as a "how to" at all. The other way you learn about your own sexuality is by masturbating. I would encourage that within the bounds of privacy and appropriateness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2016 11:50AM by dogzilla.

Porn can give young people an unrealistic and unhealthy view of
how long it takes to get a plumber to come to your house.

Not if they do their own GD laundry.

Certainly porn can be excessive. But I don't know how we seem to focus on that problem and ignore many others.

Why is the sight of a female nipple considered obscene and banned from mainstream view, while violence is all over the screen? Now I see more and more scenes my wife watches while I'm in the room, with blood splattering onto others from someone getting shot. One scene showed from a primetime NCIS showed a head in the refrigerator.

If porn can mess up a kid, why can't violence?

And if we're worried about unrealistic expectations, what about images of lavish lifestyles? The leading reason for divorce is money problems. As I've mentioned before, the only divorces I've seen in my family were about dissatisfaction with level of lifestyle. No shame attached, though. That only seems attached to things sexual.

Free Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is the sight of a female nipple considered
> obscene and banned from mainstream view, while
> violence is all over the screen?


Yes, exactly. In common with many Europeans, we find it hard to understand this aspect of American Media.

You can, apparently, show the most brutal, disgusting, sadistic of acts and no one apparently turns a hair. Yet a nipple slip for a fraction of a second?

All hell breaks loose!

It makes no sense.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2016 01:05AM by quatermass2.

I blame the Puritans.

WTH???

In As Good As It Gets, Melvin Udall tells the secretary when writing about women he takes away male reason and accountability.

When I was baptized at 8 my parents told me I was accountable for my own mistakes. It wasn't so much frightening as sobering. If a teenager does not understand accountability by then, the parents are in for a rough ride.

I spent 3 hours this morning searching for information on the age of consent in CA during the 1930s. Instead of finding what I needed, I found all manner of statutes regarding prosecutable sex offenses. It was frightening. Now I can't think of anything more sobering for a teenager than to have them read what they are liable for, AND what it will do to their parents and home life if they foolishly try any of that exploration. That's what they should be getting in their sex education. They might watch Dune, and discuss the scene where the Benegeserit cannot look in the place where the Kwisatz Haderach can, and compare that to the porn industry--that is, it will destroy in time anyone who persists in looking unless they know when to look away. Not because of the content, but because of the obsession.

When my son became of age and got himself into trouble with Juvenile court, I explained to him some of the consequences of where he was going, and made sure it was HIS choice, not mine. But he had to live with the guilt, if not the consequences, if it also destroyed my life since parents are liable for their children's actions. When I discovered he was masturbating I told him to be discrete when doing it, that I had no problem with it as long as he was responsible about his sexual activities and stayed out of jail. Whacking off in private was far better than the alternative. So is a rubber doll than alimony and child support.

At 19 he came to me about his pregnant live-in girl friend. Rather than berating him for his stupidity (I'd done my share at that age) I rehearsed with him what the legal consequences of that act was and his options. He made the choice, exercising his own sense of accountability. Now at 35 he's happily enough married to the gal, and beset with his own son entering puberty. Fortunately he started early with his sons, teaching them to choose wisely with such simple things as brushing their teeth. They learned at an early age to be accountable for the health of their bodies. Today I am a very proud parent for the level of accountability my son has exhibited as a father. Screwing up is an essential part of maturation. It is not possible to prevent it, but it is possible to minimize it by making them suffer the consequences of their poor choices and want to choose wisely thereby.