Do you remember the early Primary songs? Some make fun of them now, but they were beautiful gems with important messages.

Give, Said the Little Stream was about generosity--cheerful generosity, because you were SINGING as you "give, oh give."

Stand for the Right said, "Be true, be true." "Stand for the right."

Do What Is Right----Let the consequence follow.

Let's Be Kind to One Another---"Many Hearts are sad and weary--a smile would cost you nothing--nothing more than would a frown."

Or how about "I Have a Garden?" --"Goodness and love are seeds that I sow."

Or the much maligned "Little Purple Pansies," --"We are very weary, but must try, try, try...just one heart to gladden.

There were many more, but most were relegated to the trash heap and substituted with more "important" songs about the prophet and temple and tithing.

One of my strongest memories of a recently activated teen me was singing "Shall the Youth of Zion Falter?" (No!) in the stake youth choir at stake conference in Palmdale, CA. And on mutual night we'd sing American folk songs from the red MIA song book. Seems so far away now, and more like I attended a different church back then.

I loved "Firm as the Mountains Around Us." We didn't get to sing it often because the accompaniment is difficult and hardly anyone could play it.

Nope....don't recognize any of 'em....too old?

RB

I think all of those songs are still in the Primary songbook.

A few years ago, when I worked in Primary, we sang those songs.

Yes, I believe most of the fun songs are still in the song book. But in the decade that I had a Primary calling before I left the church, the fun songs were rarely sung. Perhaps it depends on the ward you're in. Occasionally the kids would sing Popcorn popping, Once there was a snowman or Do as I'm doing.

The songs most often sung by the Primary kids were the ones that were going to be sung in the Primary program in the fall...I know the scriptures are true, I love to see the temple, I am a child of God, Follow the prophet, The articles of faith songs, etc. There really wasn't time for the kids to learn anything else.

I remember:

Popcorn Popping

Give Said the Little Stream

The Golden Plates

Itsy Bitsy Spider

Jesus Wants Me for a Sunbeam

Love at Home (Not sure this was a Primary song)

When I first experienced the nuttiness of the secret handshakes and death gestures in the temple (pre-1990), my first thought was:

"What happened to the 'Jesus wants me for a sunbeam' church I grew up in?"

Yeah, I remember 'em. I also recognize them as not so cute indoctrination tools. So screw 'em.

Now, if they'd sung, "Don't blindly follow, learn to think and reason, find evidence to check on claims," I'd give them some merit. They don't, though.

our primary colours - brain washing at it's finest

I remember them. My mother told me years ago before she died in 2004, that they stopped singing "Give Said the Little Stream" because "that's not real, streams don't talk."

They used the same rationale on her....she was a puppeteer, did shows in her home theater, and was quite popular and well know in her town. She also did puppet shows at church for the primary kids. She had several original skits that dealt with bible type settings and used puppets she made.... a shepherd boy, his little lamb "Pasha", etc.

One day they pulled her aside and said no more puppet shows with talking animals. She asked why? "Because that's not real, animals don't talk."

My immediate response to her was, "yeah, but angels appear and lead you to gold plates....that's real."

She laughed and agreed. By then she was mentally and spiritually out of church.

They babble. Babbling is talking. I'm doing right now, in fact. Your mom, I'm sorry to say, was wrong on that one.

"They babble. Babbling is talking. I'm doing right now, in fact. Your mom, I'm sorry to say, was wrong on that one."

I'm not sure what your point is. The point of the post was that the church can't handle a little fantasy story telling or singing in primary so they shut down good, clean, fun entertainment for the kids.....yet they teach an entire doctrine based in fantasy.

You, I'm sorry to say, seemed to have missed that.

I think cludgie was being humorous. Streams (and especially brooks) are sometimes said to make a "babbling" noise as they flow in their course over rocks, etc. And since babbling = talking, you could say, in a way, that streams "talk."

I got the humor part. Its the..... "Your mom, I'm sorry to say, was wrong on that one"....that lost me.

How was she "wrong"? She believed streams do talk and they don't? She believed streams don't talk and they do? She shouldn't have been doing puppet shows with talking animals at church?

My point was, she didn't believe anything about the stream....of course she knew streams can't talk and speak words, but also knew they babble, and humans babble when they talk.

I'm not seeing the connection concerning being right or wrong. The only connection I see is that the church sucks the fun out of everything, even nice songs and puppet shows for the little kids. So stop picking on my dead mom :)

When cludgie said your mom was wrong, I think cludgie was being ironic. That was part of the joke.

But I better let cludgie make any further statements/clarifications on the subject.

Over and out.

: )

Thanks for coming to my defense. One was being, if not ironic, at least sarcastic. It's one's biggest personality fault, so long as you don't include all the other things. One was merely indicating, for God's sake, that it's a children's song about a small, moving body of water that appears to talk. To say there's anything wrong about that is nonsense; one shouldn't care which relative, close or distant, says it. Still, like a group of cats is actually called a "clowder" (who knew, right?), and a herd of whales is a "pod," language technicalities dictate that moving waters, as much as they may seem to "talk" (and it's okay if they do), more accurately "babble." One dare not ignore language technicalities.

Look it up. It's in the Bible. One forgets where. Probably in the back.

Actually, in the Bible an ass did speak! Ironic. At TSCC if they put on the Messiah by Handel, many of the parts are left out because....they don't conform to Mo theology. TSCC does not indicate the verses omitted, even though the verses are consistent with the Bible.

At General Conference, lots of asses speak! ;)

Yes, I thought a lot of those songs had great meanings. At one point the only job I would do was teach in the young Sunday school classes because that was the only place where I could teach without vomiting. I still had to adjust things--de-emphasizing the unhealthy self-abnegation, eliminating any direct connection to the church, etc.--but teaching in nursery school used to be beyond the reaches of correlation and could be rewarding.

I have always thought that those primary songs are the church's condemnation, those and the first principles and ordinances of the gospel. How can one respect church leaders who don't live up to the principles taught to three-year-olds? It was many years later that I learned of the second anointing, which meant that the gospel and moral codes are explicitly expendable. In the name of Christ a person who's received that ordinance can commit almost any sin he wants--and, if it helps the church, he is expected to commit it.

In my mind, the betrayal of the values in those primary songs discredits the church greatly.

The primary penny song. For donations to the primary children's hospital in SLC:

five pennies make a nickle
two nickles make a dime
ten dimes will make a dollar
how we'll make it shine
It's for the crippled children
who cannot walk or run
who have to lie in bed all day
and cannot join the fun
So let us be unselfish and bring our pennies here
to help the crippled children become better year by year.

We marched around the chapel and as we walked past the pulpit we were expected to donate 1 penny for each year old we were.

Do as I'm doing

Once there was a snowman

When we're helping we're happy

The primary songs we sang as children made the primary program more bearable.

Was there in the days of the oldies goldies.

Then "Where Love is, there God is also," was introduced in my later primary years, and "As I have loved you, love one another."

I played violin duets with another classmate to those songs, and several others.

I so loved those early primary songs.

As a toddler, my slightly older brother was asked to sing a solo in junior Sunday school. He must've kept what he was planning on singing a secret, because when the big day came, he walked up to the front of the room and belted out "The old gray mare she pooped on the maple tree" song, as loud as he could sing.

The teachers were aghast. The children were delighted. It was good he had some fun with that because he died not too long after from a lengthy battle with cancer.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
He must've
> kept what he was planning on singing a secret,
> because when the big day came, he walked up to the
> front of the room and belted out "The old gray
> mare she pooped on the maple tree" song, as loud
> as he could sing.
>

I'm dying right now...kids come up with the funniest stuff!

The K kids I monitor are always tattling on each for silly stuff and the best one was "He's saying nasty words! He's saying BOOBIES!" :D I had to muffle my laughter and turn around.

I do remember those songs and I like the Purple Pansies ones. I think they started phasing out some of those while I move through Primary in the 80s'. Kinda sad, can't even let children have any fun in the cult.

Itzpapalotl Wrote:
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> I do remember those songs and I like the Purple
> Pansies ones. I think they started phasing out
> some of those while I move through Primary in the
> 80s'. Kinda sad, can't even let children have any
> fun in the cult.


They seemed to start phasing them out after the 3 hour block meeting schedule started, and Primary was held on a Sunday. They were probably deemed unsuitable for the Sabbath.....
Prior to that it was held on a week day.

Kids can be so spontaneous, lol. :)

Forgot to add, when my brother sang "pooped" he substituted it with a loud noise like a kazoo, and let her rip! My dad got a big kick out of telling us that story for years to come. Hmm, could it have been dad that taught my brother to sing it that way?

Still pissed they omitted I Have a Garden when they redid the songbook. Used to sing that song as a kid in Primary. Also still majorly pissed that when the new green hymn book was made, they left out the Guide Us O Thou Great Jehova sung to the tune of In the Gloaming. DAMN them!

I wonder when he comes again.

"I have a garden," now there's a song I haven't thought about in years. That was such a pretty song, but used to scare me thinking I had weeds in my brain that I couldn't get rid of.

Haha...jonny...streams dont talk but rocks do...got it...music to wash little brains by...by the twelve fosdicks of the day...naw probly just some really nice devoted primary presidency...doing the best they knew how...

"We see his signal flashing..."

Back in the late 70s I was soundly carpeted for pointing that one out in the big black hymnbook.

A change to the words of the hymn "Praise To the Man" was made years ago. The words "Long may his blood which was shed by assassins, plead unto heaven while the earth lauds his fame" were originally "stain Illinois while the earth lauds his fame."

My Dad grew up in Utah but got transferred to Illinois for work in the 1950s. He lived there for the next 60 years. And he ALWAYS sang "stain Illinois," even when he was in the stake presidency sitting on the stand next to the stake president, and later when he became the stake patriarch and a sealer in the Nauvoo temple. He didn't have anything against Illinois. He just liked stirring things up and getting a rise out of people.