I had the pleasure of conversing with a relative of mine recently about the BOM, they are aware that i no longer believe. He has tried to use various arguments to convince me to return to belief. his most recent submission is about a righteous lamanite warrior by the name of Zelf/Zelph (not shore on the spelling). From what i could glean from his fervent testimony he was trying to use this character as proof positive of the BOM's veracity.

I am only vaguely familiar with this Zelf. If my memory serves he (bones or grave?) was found by Joseph or one of the early apostles on one of there travels.

Any light on this subject and how it proves the BOM is true would be appreciated.

Thank you

"In 1834, Joseph Smith and members of the Zion's Camp march stumbled onto some bones in southern Illinois.[1] According to the journals of several other church leaders who were present at the time, Smith received a revelation about the buried remains telling him that they were from a mighty Lamanite warrior named Zelph who was described as a "white Lamanite" allied with the Nephites."

To learn more about the ridiculous story- go to mormonthink.com

http://www.mormonthink.com/zelph.htm

Thank you for the link and post.

I don't see how this proves the BOM is true, if anything to me it would seem to add more confusion.

You are right to call it a rediculous story.

The Zelph thing is one of those stories that Joseph Smith made up on the spur of the moment. They found some bones, JS said that they belonged to Zelph, a white Laminate, etc., etc., etc. There is absolutely no evidence that anything JS said about Zelph was factual.

It is so silly a story that it was one of the early things that made me sure that JS was a liar and a conman. Any small child could make up as good a story about a random discovery.

I am amazed that anyone could read the story of Zelph and fail to see it as made up nonsense. It's something that you can only believe if you really and truly feel compelled to try as hard as you can to believe that JS was a prophet.

Otherwise, it's just ridiculous.

as opposed to those that took a bit more time and effort-like the BOM.

LOL

FAIR casts doubt on the Zelph story.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Geography/Statements/Nineteenth_century/Joseph_Smith%27s_lifetime_1829-1840/Joseph_Smith/Zelph

FAIR's job is to "cast doubt" on things that show mormonism to be inane and ridiculous. They do so by cherry-picking, selective quoting, insinuations without evidence, and (most often) character assassination. Their "doubt" is not only not reasonable, it's not honest.

They sure did a good job in helping me to find my way out of the church.

Because you recognized the dishonesty of their apologetics? :)

That and then some.

Part of the proof that JS had the revelation about Zelph was when it happened. JS had "murmurings" in Zion's Camp because of errors he made in leading the group including not stopping for the night in a good location with good water but continuing further and his forces got sick. To stop the murmurings it was convenient to come up with the revelation about Zelph! What would be good if the mound could be excavated and bones tested for when they lived. Somewhere there are the bones of Zelph because they brought them to camp and were shown. One should note that it is in the "History of the Church" approved by JS in his lifetime!

They are probably gathering dust in the First Presidency Vault, where the seer stones are stored. Maybe Grant Palmer can say.

If I remember correctly bones and artifacts found in the area were associated with the Hopewell Indian settlements and were dated around 400 AD or earlier. Book of Mormon times! But nothing of the culture and artifacts matches with accounts in Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith's Zelph.

Growing up in the Midwest I am quite familiar with the Indian burial mounds in various places, including in a Boy Scout camp near my hometown. Hearing the Zelph story made me shudder about him desecrating their burial site.

To me Zelph is a perfect example of how Joseph Smith was a good and convincing storyteller. He could make up stuff like that and have people believing his story just shows he had a talent for that, and easily could have made up the stuff in the Book of Mormon, particularly with the help of the plagiarized materials (KJV Bible, View of the Hebrews and The Late War).