To outsiders, both belief systems could be seen as unusual. Yet the Amish way of life does not prompt the same reactions that the Mormon way of life does.

The Amish seem to be admired, respected, venerated and held in affection. But Mormons are often ridiculed, scorned, resented and even downright disliked.

What makes the difference? Or are my perceptions wrong?

probably because the Amish don't get in your face.

Major Bidamon Wrote:
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> probably because the Amish don't get in your face.


+1

They also don't lie and fake their history. They have earned the respect they have as people who choose to live their own way quietly without fanfare.

Can you imagine a grandiose extravagant Amish Mall of the West designed to attract high rollers?

Exactly.

Anagrammy

The mormon mishies don't come round much anymore.

Can't recall an Amish missionary ever knocking on my door.

Timothy

I don't think they lie and cover up their history either.

Pic. of Amish man with beard and typical Amish hat.

Caption; Don't Drink or Drive

There is great documentary on the Amish called "Devil's Playground." It talks about the teens coming of age and prior to having to make a decision, I think when they are 18 or so, to get baptized and vow to follow the doctrines of their church and throw all of their worldly desires away. The alternative is to be almost ostracized from your family and the community. One girl, who desired to go to college, will never see her family again. I cheered that she had the guts to be true to herself in spite of her family and former religion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2011 02:03PM by azeus.

You can return to the community, it's hard, and not a lot who leave do. There were a number of Amish men who decided to enlist during WWII that re-entered after they came home.

That's one of the centers of the Amish, extreme northern Indiana. Anyway, he's cool with his family. He decided not to do the Amish thing. I've always had a standing invitation to go to his relatives' place for a big Amish dinner the next time I'm in town, but Shipshewana is hardly on the way to anywhere. Haven't been back in 10 years.

Fantastic documentary, one of my favorites!!

Oh, my gosh yes. I am with you on that!!!

There are websites for Ex-Amish, too, like this one: http://www.amish.co/ .

What azeus is referring to is called "Rumspringa," and is a period of time about two years when Amish teens are basically allowed to sow their wild oats (within reason) a bit without fear of church punishment. They aren't truly considered church members until they are adults, so when they enter into a commitment to the religion, well, the difference is, they understand better what they are getting into. They aren't really pressured to choose the church either. There's a huge post-Amish community in the Midwest, and I imagine, as more people choose the "worldly" path, there's more of a support system for the younger generations to fall back on.

It's just not as controlling a religion because you really do have choices. And the reasons for some of their choices as a religion (no electricity, drab clothing colors, head coverings for women, beards for men, etc.) are actually grounded in scripturally based "logic." It makes sense to them; it's not like mormon garments with the arbitrary Masonic symbols on them.

The movie 'Witness' would have been super-different if Harrison Ford had fallen in with a bunch of fundamentalist mormons, that's fer shure!

Amish remind Americans of the way they imagine everybody lived 150 years ago.

Mormon missionaries bring to mind the few paragraphs in history they have read about polygamy. And, more recently, the images of YFZ and Junniper Creek (Big Love). The idea that Mormons are fringe and possibly dangerous is woven into the fabric of American history. The Republican party even made Mormon polygamy a political issue for several decades, with Lincoln calling it a "relic of barbarism."

Said a different way, seeing an Amish wagon on the street conjures images of Harrison Ford, while seeing a Mormon on the street makes people think of the Roman Grant, Prophet of Junniper Creek.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2011 03:13PM by rogertheshrubber.

There have been issues with the Amish clashing with society too -- from kids on their Rumspringa causing problems to the Amish refusing to follow building codes (install smoke detectors and the like). A particularly notable instance I remember is when the Amish protected a child molester because they didn't agree with the way our law would have handled this individual -- they got some major black marks for that one.

However, the Amish generally raise far less ire because they aren't in everybody's business telling them how they are failing God or insisting that their rules are better than anyone else's. They're a heck of a lot better at live and let live. :)

How could an Amish give it all up? This comedian explains it. (Some bad language)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYTpEdcgh-A&feature=related

Both cults are bad but in different ways.

It always strikes me as ironic how some of these ex-Amish / ex-LDS young people talk about wanting to express their individuality, be themselves, etc., but then you see them with the baggy pants and baseball cap, listening to rap or whatever, wearing tattoos, and they are just fitting themselves into another type of group conformity.

They weren't born and raised in a culture that imposes rap and tattoos on them. The difference is they get to choose it themselves. Individuality =/= originality

Are you talking about young people in 1992? With the baggy pants, bball caps listening to rap? LOL...sorry, carry on...

http://www.amish.co/showthread.php?t=15478
My younger sister gave telemarketing LDS missionaries my wife's cell phone number and they asked her if I wanted a "free gift"? I know that if I want nothing to do with the LDS Church it pretty much leaves me open to them to attempts by my family to reconvert me.

I don't plan on staying with any of them overnight - ever.

Mormonism is more insidious than Amish because it isn't explicit shunning. It is implicit and harder to deal with in my opinion.

Or are you just talking about the public's image of Amish. Because I spent one summer in Pennsylvania, living near Amish communities and it seemed like the locals weren't particularly fond of the Amish. In fact, what the non-Amish in PA thought about the Amish was exactly mirrored by what the non-LDS in Utah thought about the Mormons when I moved to Utah a few years later. However, there was seemed like non-LDS were more upset about Mormon behavior - more emotionally invested and angry as if the Mormons were more able to provoke with their bad behavior. I think it's because Mormons have no boundaries and get in your face and space and Amish don't do that.

http://www.amishdeception.com/autobiography.html
"Every time my Swartzentruber Amish Culture has to go to court, such as the Miller case, or the Byler case they try to hide behind the Freedom Religious Act. According to the scripture I believe they are not a religion, my people are a Cult. My Amish culture should not be allowed to hide behind the Freedom Religious Act for their Criminal misdeeds. "

I personally don't respect them either. I think the kids ought to be required to go to public high schools and learn how to use modern technologies until they're 18, just to give them sufficient exposure to the outside world. Then they can really choose for themselves.

It bothers me that parents are allowed to limit their children's resources and opportunities in the name of religion.

It bothers me too, but what is to one person "resources and opportunities" is "temptations and negative influences" on another. It's all relative.

Children dying because their parents decided it isn't faithful to see a doctor or children denied an opportunity to learn critical thinking or to be exposed to a full array of educational options is depriving children of a basic human right to realize their full potential (if they want to). It's one of my pet peeves. I'd love to see a "rights" ammendment for children added to the Constitution. I think it speaks poorly of us in America that we haven't done something along those lines.

Exposing Amish kids to public education system to help them become more worldly is exactly the opposite of Amish/Mennonite doctrine. The idea is to be plain and simple, and to not be "of the world." A secular education -- as opposed to the one-room schoolhouse/homeschooling thing they do now -- would be teaching kids to be too worldly.

P.S. The Amish do not like to pose for pictures not because they do not consider themselves tourist attractions (which they aren't), but because that violates the "Thall shall not have graven images" commandment. Taking pictures elevates the status of people and the Amish & Mennonites believe in elevating only god.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2011 01:19PM by dogzilla.

However, children should have basic rights too. I think a full education needs to be one of those rights. As was pointed out, can you truly make an "choice" when you haven't had a chance to be fully informed?

I am from PA and never heard people speak badly about the Amish so I do not know what you are speaking of CA girl.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2011 02:13AM by honestone.

The Amish are all about humility, Mormonism is not.

But they are far more sincere people than Mormons, and show it by doggedly sticking to their religious principles on the one hand, and still being nice regular folks on the other. There's no getting in your face or anything. In fact, they generally don't strike up a conversation with you, you have to talk to them. Despite any of their problems, the have a lot of outward charm what with the clothes and stuff. Very few people try to squeak their religious beliefs out of them; all they want is a good photo, but Amish don't see themselves as tourist attractions and don't like to pose. They do not overtly proseletize and have no whacky beliefs that need to be constantly defended. While Mormons really lack confidence in their beliefs, as demonstrated by how they talk about them and reconfirm them by saying how they "know" it's true, Amish know what they believe and do it, or else they wouldn't go through an outlandish lifestyle wearing broadfall pants and ploughing with horses. If you want to know what Amish believe (which is very similar to what Mennonites believe), just ask them. But it's a whole lifestyle, as you know, not just some set of beliefs.

Part of their problem is that they have to do a lot of intermarriage, and are always looking for outside blood from other Amish communities. So there are high incidents of certain illnesses caused by inbreeding. The other problem is that they're supposed to pursue farming, but often can't because there is no farmland left to purchase in a lot of the areas where they live, which is why they get into making stuff for the public, like those heaters advertised on TV. They also do a good share of building contracting, so yeah, there are indeed Amish electricians. They don't have cars, but they do hitchhike. So next time you're in Bird-in-Hand, PA, and see an Amish man or woman hitchhikig, give someone a ride home and help them with their groceries.

grandiosely --- Their level of shunning is total and complete if anyone leaves their group. Mothers and fathers, for instance, are banned from ever looking at or speaking to their children who leave. They can never, ever go back. They won't drive a car, but they will abandon their children if they leave. Very strange thinking on so many levels.

Also, talk to those that leave, and you'll find that abuse of all sorts is well hidden. They have a few people on the "outside" that are willing to help the young men (mostly) with jobs and a place to leave.

Their religious beliefs are extreme and undeviating and very strict. (Much more so than Mormonism.)

At one time in the earlier history, Mormonism was much more like the Amish in that they stayed in a group and isolated themselves as a tribe.

I'll take Mormonism over the Amish any day!

I currently live in Indiana Amish country (work in Shipshewana sometimes) and there is a lot of bad feelings between the Amish and the "English". Some Amish show a total disregard for the law. The teenagers have gone from just driving cars and drinking some before they join the church to making and selling their own drugs. It is a serious problem.
We know of baptized Amish that still smoke and drink like fish. They have generators in their closets.
The tourism industry in this area is completely built around the Amish and people coming in to see how the Amish live, like they are monkeys in the zoo.
Each group can be different concerning shunnings. In this area, as long as someone is never baptized, they aren't shunned. They are only shunned if they are baptized into the church and then leave the church.

I just went to Lancaster PA to buy a car and I bought it from a Mennonite missionary. He and his wife are going to LA to work with the poor. She will be working with teens who are prostitutes to help them get out of that life.

There mission is about HELPING those in need, it does not seem to be centered on meeting dunking quotas.

As much as he was earnest I did offer him $600 less than his asking price, which was the blue book value. But nothing is selling for blue book value these days and I am unemployed. He was leaving in a week and half for LA so it worked out well for everyone. I am the proud owner of a 2005 Scion XB, which looks like a shoe box on wheels. Klunky/boxy in a cute way, like a toddler's toy car.

Mormons are always in your face and then ignore you when you say NO. Amish are never in your face...in fact they don't care to look at your face.

I saw them often in PA. I totally respected them....sad they did without modern conveniences but it was their way-still is...Loved seeing them ride in their buggies.

The LDS are self-righteous hypocrites who are always in your business and they dupe people by making the corporation Christian themed.


While I don't think the Amish are without their faults, I think at the core it is a humble and honest religion/lifestyle. I have lots of family in Lancaster,PA so I'm pretty familiar with the Amish. They can also blend with their environment where the LDS need to dominate it.

Mormon's lost in a play off...

engaging in human behavior - no matter the religion. There is a wide variety of behaviors that show up ...everywhere.

our behaviors impact each other in subtle or in devastating ways. Human beings have evolved with a less than perfect ability to seek patterns among our experiences.

It's useful to examine those patterns so that we may effect strategies for dealing with the things that impact our lives, strategies such as recognizing general characteristics of . . . oh . . . things like . . . Mormonism.