I believe Mormonism will continue the slow, gradual slide into irrelevancy. Although Catholicism is still an enormous religion, when comparing it to what it was even a century ago, it's much less powerful politically, and in many ways, much less influential in the lives of the "everyday" Catholic.

In the long run, I see both religions surviving into the 22nd Century and beyond, but see both as sick, much smaller, and will be viewed as oddities by the vast majority of people living at that time.

Why? Easy access of information, free-flow exchange of ideas, and ultimately knowledge.

I think Ayn Rand said it best:
"Man cannot survive except by gaining knowledge, and reason is his only means to gain it. Reason is the faculty that perceives, identifies and integrates the material provided by his senses. The task of his senses is to give him the evidence of existence, but the task of identifying it belongs to his reason, his senses tell him only that something is, but what it is must be learned by his mind." - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

What do you think? Where will Mormonism be in 20 years? 50 years?

20 years .... not in Jackson County, MO
50 years .... not in Jackson County, MO


USA will be lap dogs to China (20, 30, and 50 years hence) for obvious reasons.

Well Marie Osmond will have been divorced and remarried her second husband who technically will become her fourth. They will be sealed in the temple, again, and she will go on TV telling everyone how wonderful Eternal Marriage is.

Uchdorf will be President and his first act in office will be to change the title 'Prophet' to 'Air Marshall'.

To be a Priesthood holder and attend the temple males will be required to be both black AND gay, females will gain the Priesthood automatically at age 10.

Tithing will be at 30% because all the investments have crashed and City Creek has become a heroin den.

The four missionaries on full time missions will all be based on the internet and spend most of their time trying to convince doubters that the Church has never been homophobic, sexist, or racist and they will have the quotes to prove it.

Alas...Ash will still be looking for the Hill Cumorah...

Stumbling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well Marie Osmond will have been divorced and
> remarried her second husband who technically will
> become her fourth. They will be sealed in the
> temple, again, and she will go on TV telling
> everyone how wonderful Eternal Marriage is.

this will tick off the psychotic residents who are madly in love with Marie. (but thats ok because it was very funny)


> Uchdorf will be President and his first act in
> office will be to change the title 'Prophet' to
> 'Air Marshall'.
>
> To be a Priesthood holder and attend the temple
> males will be required to be both black AND gay,
> females will gain the Priesthood automatically at
> age 10.
>
> Tithing will be at 30% because all the investments
> have crashed and City Creek has become a heroin
> den.
>
> The four missionaries on full time missions will
> all be based on the internet and spend most of
> their time trying to convince doubters that the
> Church has never been homophobic, sexist, or
> racist and they will have the quotes to prove it.
>
> Alas...Ash will still be looking for the Hill
> Cumorah...

I agree with you, the church won't die out anytime soon, but convert baptism's in advanced countries will be ending very, very soon. I believe in about 100 years maybe 150, it will be gone for good. And like you said, the internet, info everywhere.

I live in the morridor and yesterday I saw 2 missies out on their bikes. I always feel a bit sorry for them, as I doubt they ever find anyone interested in listening to them, and they are just kids.

I started thinking about my 3 oldest grandsons 2 age 14 and 1 age 15. I have no doubt they will all serve missions. It just made me really sad to realize that more than likely they will not baptize one person, unless they send them to a country so remote they could get dysentery. I worry that they will get depressed and just really hate the entire thing. I do love them and it just made me really sad. Just kids, thoroughly indoctrinated. Not their fault.

think4u Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with you, the church won't die out anytime
> soon, but convert baptism's in advanced countries
> will be ending very, very soon. I believe in about
> 100 years maybe 150, it will be gone for good. And
> like you said, the internet, info everywhere.
>
> I live in the morridor and yesterday I saw 2
> missies out on their bikes. I always feel a bit
> sorry for them, as I doubt they ever find anyone
> interested in listening to them, and they are just
> kids.
>
> I started thinking about my 3 oldest grandsons 2
> age 14 and 1 age 15. I have no doubt they will all
> serve missions. It just made me really sad to
> realize that more than likely they will not
> baptize one person, unless they send them to a
> country so remote they could get dysentery. I
> worry that they will get depressed and just really
> hate the entire thing. I do love them and it just
> made me really sad. Just kids, thoroughly
> indoctrinated. Not their fault.


I mean, sure, missions totally SUCK! but Mine totally turned me against the Church before it was over! keep up the hope that it can happen again for your kin!

so its not pretty for the cult. Look at what the first 15 years of internet access common to homes has done to the church. It has started an exodus that will not likely end. In fact I believe it will continue to gain momentum. Maybe not as fast because the last 20-25 years represent a time when we went from 0 internet capable computers to the current number of internet connected citizens, so across the next 15-20 years the growth of the internet will be slower, which may or may not tamper teh exodus. But the cat is out of the bag. Things like the YFZ ranch, the BOM musical, another Romney campaign...and other events that put the church in the media... continue to cause people to research mo-ism. And the facts are there to be found.

From 2031 to 2061 doesn't matter as much because the damage will be done by then.

It's too bad the whole Hofmann forgeries didn't go down 15 years later, say 2000 instead of 1985, because that would have been a catastrophe in the bloggernacle, and the internet powered media. Or the finding of the BoA Egyptian Papyri in 1967.... Think if there was today's internet when that happened.

I totally agree with you about the timing of the Hoffman murders.

And btw, what is YFZ ranch, anyone?

The YFZ Ranch, also known as the Yearning for Zion Ranch,[1] is a 1,700-acre (7 km2) community which housed as many as 700 people just outside of Eldorado in Schleicher County, Texas, United States. It is owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS).

I think the church will be forced to make "cutbacks" in building programs and missionary programs in the next 10 years. We will notice this. Some chapels will be sold off, maybe a temple or two. The economic squeeze in the US is permanent and this will cut into tithing revenues. The high cost of being a Mormon will drive people into inactivity. Younger people are taking a laid back attitude towards the church, I know, I have kids in their 20s and they say it is amazing how many are just saying "yup, so what/why?" to church things.

The church can only accomodate people who believe and pay so they will stumble trying to accomodate the less than full participators. THIS issue is the one they will obsess the most on. They will not successfully deal with it and people left on the outside will completely leave and this will screw with the psyche of those who are left. The process is self accelerating and will cause an ever increasing downward spiral.

The church will be gone in 50 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2011 12:42PM by elcid.

This has always made me curious. I've always thought they'd have to someday do it, and wondered what kind of spin they would put on it. Maybe they'd blame it on contractor incompetence, for instance.

I really do hope you are right.

Just a knee-jerk response:

"Like I give a rat's ass?".

Just sayin'...

Ron

The hints of where the church will be are already here. The church has announced that the San Jose Mission will no longer include tracting because it is a "waste of time." This is huge because it represents a move from the symbolic to the actual, which is more in harmony with the business model they espouse.

So, in the future, missionaries will be virtual. You will invite them into your home where a clean-cut hologram will walk you through discussions as you walk through the Garden of Eden with your missionary "guide", you walk through the temple, etc.

The future doctrine is embodied in one great whole with the statement of Gordon Hinckley on Larry King that he doesn't know that the members believe God was once a man. The virtual missionary will explain to prospective members that throughout the church the leaders have put forth various levels of theology and allowed the members to choose their beliefs according to their level of comfort. Therefore, the missionaries cannot speak for the members and invite the prospective member to look at the good the church does in the world...hologram moving on...

The future Mormon Church will be described as the only truly American religion designed to meet the sociospiritual needs of the members. The LDS have taken the niche of providing what we would call expatriate services for the culturally isolated. Members are assured that their children will be properly indoctrinated in the values which will enable them to survive and thrive in the new AmeriChinese society. Mandarin lessons are given for free to ward members, as is Chinese etiquette. The Chinese are very pleased that the LDS church is able to keep their members in line without guns. They admire the LDS leadership and consider them full partners in maintaining peace and tranquillity in Chinamerica.

The real evil in the world is no longer Satan. Instead, apostates are viewed as being under the control of nationalism. And expressions of such are treated as symptoms of mental illness because nationalism/separatism is so clearly evil only the mentally ill or very old and demented would want to go back to that warlike period in human history where everyone was divided.

Deseret Industries work training begins with chapel cleaning and unemployed members are given food instead of wages as they learn janitorial work, which is the fastest growing sector in the United States. As they progress with language training in Chinese at MTC, they apply for jobs as virtual missionaries or temple cleaning trainers. Some, of course, will manufacture jumpsuits for the temple (also paid with food).

The prospective members look at each other quizzically, but they understand that everything will be explained over time after they have been through the temple and know the Secret:

WHICH IS: In the Garden of Eden, everyone is light coffee color. There is no race. There is no gender, every one has Barbie/Ken genitals, i.e., none. When they are cast out, Adam turns black and is hung and Eve turns Asian and has (you know). The holographic missionary says, "See? That explains it." Of course, no one understands anything more than they did before, but like the story "The King Has No Clothes" they assume everyone else gets it and if only they were more spiritual or masturbated less, they would get it too.

Some things never change.

Anagrammy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2011 11:48AM by anagrammy.

and said "hot damn" can't wait to read it.

It did not disappoint. But no surprises there.

Brilliant, as usual, Anagrammy!

Thanks, kids. You just know the morg will sell out America just like any other corporation.

The City Creek Mall will be completed with state funds pitching in as "job creation" like has been done in other states (Kentucky/Xanadu). It then defaults and is sold to the Chinese, allowing the church to recoup some of its investment, which losses it will blame on the devaluation of the dollar.

The mall will be renamed Gateway World and will be a museum/amusement park showing actual physical stores from around the world. Since people buy on the internet, stores no longer exist but wealthy primarily foreign people still want the nostalgia experience of seeing how it was for their ancestors.

The temple ceremony will also be virtual and "secret" in that you have a password. The actual temple buildings will be refurbished and rented out for parties, vaccination clinics, earthquake shelters, food storage fairs, dances, etc.

Ward buildings will be converted to community centers where online education is administered. Ward buildings will also be used by Homeland Security, renamed "Dept of Safety and Prevention" to protect the public with various surveillance and prevention programs such as periodic facial and retina scanning needed by the police to update and verify the identity of the local neighborhood. This is to protect against the intrusion of illegal aliens, sexual predators, gang members, drug dealers, murderers, hackers, criminals and fugitives like illegal movers or drivers (Citizens require a license to move out of their state of residence).

Anagrammy

...Remember how he declared his pride in his Mormon heritage but it's obvious he isn't a "head bowing, yes saying" temple attender? I'm starting to think the future of Mormonism is going to be a lot like that. More and more people will give up tithing and temple attendance. They'll still be Mormons but they won't submit to the total control. Look at us. How many here still attend at least sometimes or have family that attend?

At the very least it will be interesting to see what the church does going forward. Will they keep their heads in the sand or will they acknowledge the problems and make drastic changes?

There is little reason to declare oneself an "ex-Catholic" None of my siblings go to the Catholic church we grew up in but none of them would call themselves ex either. (I know there are some ex-catholics but most just stop going)

I've talked to friends who grew up like I did, still call themselves Catholic, sometimes go, do stuff like lent or communion, but don't believe any of it. I've tried to understand their view, but haven't got there yet.

I think that something similar will come for LDS too.

Since the church is really mostly a business entity rather than a religious organization, I think the future of the church will mostly follow the ebbs and flows of macro economic conditions in North America.

The church's achilles heel is the need to maintain cash flow. Without this cash flow, there is no mormon church.

If the U.S. empire continues to grow and prosper, I think the "church" will grow, but probably at a slower rate.

If you think the US empire is in long term decline while the economies of China, India and Brazil continue to grow at a faster rate, then the mormon church will suffer some significant declines. The church has no real presence in China and India and it is unlikely will ever have one.

If you think about the key issues affecting the U.S. future - an aging population, massive debt, exploding healthcare costs, energy security, climate change - I don't see anyone in the US proposing real solutions to these problems.

"The church's achilles heel is the need to maintain cash flow. Without this cash flow, there is no mormon church."

Exactly. It doesn't matter how much info about it is posted on the internet, or how many people protest it, they'll do whatever it takes to keep the tithing coming in because that is what will keep it alive.

Sure, there is always tithing, but as more and more people leave they will not be able to maintain growth or even maintenance of existing properties they way they have done in the past.

The LDS Church is like the "Housewives of Orange County" of churches. These materialists needed to marry wealthy in order to maintain their extravagant lifestyles. It ticked the publics fancy to see many of these woman implode and file bankruptcy. The Church is a corporation that relies on income, with tithing being a large chunk of that.

Many of the GAs are smart businessmen who have already looked into the future of diminishing membership growth and tithing $$$s. So, what are they doing? Diversifying through building businesses (e.g., City Creek Mall, etc.) that don't rely on tithing.

I can see how that would be beneficial to them.

I wonder if City Creek will actually turn out to be a good investment or not. My non-economic expertise says probably not, but I really have no idea :)

Many people will refuse to shop their, because of the church's involvement. There is even a FB group protesting to establishment.

However, with time, I think people will forget or not care and will begin shopping there.

149-152: LDS Anthropologist Daymon Smith on Post-Manifesto Polygamy, Correlation, the Corporate LDS Church, and Mammon
May 13, 2010
By John Dehlin

How true http://mormonstories.org/?p=980
It was very eye opening for me!

In this incredibly fascinating 4-part series, long-time Mormon Stories supporter Andrew Ainsworth interviews Daymon Smith Ph.D., a Mormon Anthropologist and the author of a new book called: The Book of Mammon: A Book About A Book About The Corporation That Owns The Mormons (Paperback). In this interview they discuss:

Episode 1: Federal Prosecution, Post-Manifesto Polygamy and the Rise of Mormon Fundamentalism
Episode 2: The Life and Death of the Mormon Speculative Tradition, and the Rise and Costs of Correlation
Episode 3: The LDS Church as a Corporation and the Corporation as a Church
Episode 4: Is the LDS Church Serving God, Mammon, or Both?

I will be the prophetess! ha ha ha ha In all my glorious blackness!

Who cares, they are going to be out of the picture!

world declines. We'll become more human and secular.

I totally agree with Ron, and a knee jerk reaction here too:

"Who gives a rats ass..." because I know me, my children and grandchildren will not be involved. That alone is less $$$ into Kolobian pockets.

Funny thought, "Kolobians finally admit theft of Masonic ideals and ceremonies from the start and the two combine, becoming the worlds richest and biggest co-ed fraternity. The Bible & BoM accidentally get lost in the shuffle and all oaths are only taken on The Book of Zelph. And Pay Lay Ale returns, as in drinking ale and paying dues and lay - guilt free sex finally."

Just Saying...

I give a rat's ass, for the same reason you don't, almost. My children and grandchildren will all be heavily involved( unless some choose another road) and that makes me very sad.

Mormonism, in its short history, has done very well for itself. Every single time there is any sort of mass exodus, or conflict with the culture itself, it has managed to change and morph in ways where people stay inside of the religion and continue to pay tithing.

- When people walked out on Joseph Smith, he changed things and many stayed.

- When polygamy laws threatened the religion, the religion changed.

- When racism became unpopular in America, Mormonism soon followed suit.

- Now that it is more acceptable to be considered Christian, Mormonism has shed most of its doctrines of separatism.

The church has been able to make all of these drastic changes while making it seem to the rank and file members that nothing at all is different. That is an impressive level of brainwashing.

Mormonism will be around long after we are dead and gone. That is my prediction.

Agree 100%.

I think we will see continuing shifts in doctrine in order to further mainstream with other flavors of protestant Christianity. The church may shrink, but it's not going anywhere.

The biggest change will have to happen regarding the temple. I don't know what, i just have this feeling it will change. Will they move away from garments? Will there be more added to the temple ceremony? It will change somehow, but it won't go away either.

I have had the same thought about the temple. I think it will be shortened, I was always looking at my watch, probably gone through in street clothes with just the packet. People hate changing again and then again.

Then eventually it might even be given to the faithful on DVD, so they can do it at home, in their own time, on the honor code. However, that would leave them with a bunch of huge temples to sell off as what and to whom? I do not know.

I don't think garments are going away, they make a lot of money selling them, for one thing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2011 11:55AM by think4u.

Elder Carlin, I think your assessment is more or less on target. As I see it, the slide will be to become more and more mainstream with the more controversial aspects being shoved as far to the back of the bus as possible. Mormonism won't go away but will, indeed, become increasingly irrelevant. Why do I think it will not go away? Well, look at religious groups like the Amish or Mennonites which are far more restrictive in their practices than Mormonism yet they are far older and show no signs of vanishing any time soon.

In the end, the Morg will be pretty much a social organization intended to satisfy basic human needs for community and friendship. But as a religious force to be reckoned with, it's already irrelevant.

Is that they will continue to ruin lives, but they will be other peoples lives - not mine.

Right along side the Community of Christ, just another lack luster christian sect with very few members and no influence.

It better be 25% of what it is now....maybe then my daughter will be out and save her 2 yr. old from a mission. Can't believe she would do that to him....her own hubby didn't serve a mission.

In 20 to 30 years Bednar will be the prophet. The spirit of revelation will be renewed in the church as he issues what they will call the first pickle prophecy.

It will leave a sour taste in the mouths of many members causing a great rift between those who will accept his brine soaked words and those who will not.

Amen.

At the rate of membership decline,
and with the advancement in human
science and archeology,

Morg could still quietly exist,

thankful for the fact it still has
about 1 million confirmed active,
and hoodwinked, members in 2050.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2011 12:35AM by joho.

Mormonism will be goo gooed by this time bringing me new fans for the C show.

It will look a lot more like the church of Arnold Cunningham (BoM Musical) than anything we know now.

On the other hand:

There will be no way to hide the homophobic past. They will have to repudiate this or disappear.