what issues need to be confronted?

Abuses in polygamy cults?

Lack of medical care in cults?

Incest?

Child sexual abuse?

Forcing young morg mishies to live in squalor?

I don't think it does much good to simply go through life saying all religion is bad or mind numbing. Those who care could speak out specifically on the religions that do the most harm and give advice on how to stop the abuse.

I think saying that all religions are the same doesn't do much to eliminate "magical thinking" since magical thinking is rampant as much outside religion as in it.

For example look at football, a violent, expensive, and time consuming game. Fans magically think their team will win against the most unbelievable odds and they spend hours in front of TVs trying to prove their point or put out cash on expensive tickets and flights to the Super Bowl to sit in the cold and religiously watch the antics.

Players wear lucky socks and eat lucky breakfast foods in hopes of winning and they indulge in all kinds of superstitious nonsense to buck up their beliefs.

I realize that people love football just like they love religion and it doesn't matter that both are dependent on magical thinking. The best way to limit the dangers of both is to sort out the problems and deal with them. Don't let young kids play tackle games, see that they wear protective gear, and teach them to accept winning and defeat with some nobility.

With religion, we can start being more realistic and assertive with the abusers. Complain to management if annoying patrons interrupt other diners with long loud prayers. Speak out against extreme cults which abuse children. Point out religious abuse of women, minorities and gays. Examine the possibilities of eliminating prayers at public events. Possibly, change laws that let churches get away with promoting political causes while enjoying tax exempt status.

Any other abuses need to be addressed. In mormonism? In other religious cults?

"Worthiness" interviews. No child should ever be asked about their sexuality by a non-professional for the purpose of being judged. Especially not without their parent, or an advocate, present.

If children are constitutionally guaranteed basic rights to nutrition and medical care, to a well rounded education (yeah, I know our school sytem isn't managing that so well right now, but the principle is still sound) and to the "right" to grow up able to make their own choices and prepared for adult life -- well, then I think a lot of the rest will simply go away.

I hate it that Mormon missionaries go out and risk their lives with poor nutrition, living conditions and the like but they are all technically adults. I believe they should be allowed to make those choices if that's what they really want to do. But I think children who have been empowered to think for themselves are far less likely to grow up to be missionaries in the first place.

that MORmONS expect their peers to be impressed with the superlatives of the MORmON religion, MORmONS expect to be revered for being MORmON which is of course ridiculous.
Then when the non members are not impressed with MORmONISM, MORmONS are resentful and then they take it out on those who dont have any options relative to not accepting the BS of the MORmON religion, mainly the ppl who are dependent of MORmON parents for their living, Yes I am talking about the children of the sick psychotic POS MORmONS, who often end up taking the brunt of the mental illness generated by LDS inc and their totally sick empire building aspirations!

Yeah, football is like religion. Even when the definite answer is up on the scoreboard at the end of the game, we still "win" because our quarterback had an off-day, or the referees were biased. And some of the more extreme fans resort to violence and abuse.

But man I still love the game. And having played it myself, I don't think of the sport as barbaric. The guys down there are having fun, and releasing agressive urges in a safe and productive way, often (and should always be) leading to an increase in sportsmanship between the two teams.

Whether it involves a church, or another person. Examples:

-The abuser usually initiates the relationship, latches on prematurely to the victim, and becomes serious WAY too fast. This often involves extreme flattery. For example, a man who immediately knows the woman is THE woman of his dreams and creates an exclusive relationship within days or weeks of meeting her. Or a church that seeks out new members and lovebombs and "fellowships" (pressures) people into joining before they have a chance to adequately "get to know" the abusive person or church.

-The abuser tries to squeeze out other relationships, limiting contact with the outside world and other forms of social interaction and support (people who might give the victim support or outside information).

-Crossing psychic boundaries: pretending to know the true nature, thoughts or intents of the victim, sometimes claiming to know better than the victim, who they REALLY are. Not respecting privacy.

-Devaluing another person as defective, inferior, bad, stupid, or whatever will make the abused become more compliant or "humble". This often escalates gradually, and could involve physical or just emotional abuse.

-The abuser puts themselves up as superior to the abused (smarter, wiser, having a special connection with God, etc). The abused NEEDS the abuser to HELP them. They are just telling them how defective they are for THEIR OWN GOOD.

-The abuser tries to control the victim and limit their choices. This could be done using manipulation, guilt or fear (whether fear of physical abuse, some form of social threat or emotional withdrawl, or punishment/retaliation). An abusive church might have very particular rules about every aspect of a person's life.

-The abuser tries to convince the victim that their perceptions and feelings are faulty and unreliable, and not to be trusted (unless, of course, the victim is in 100% agreement with the controller).

-The abuser tries to convince the victim that they cannot survive or be happy without them.


So what's the cure? Being emotionally healthy in the first placeis the best cure. That isn't easy in a society where abuse is rampant. But apart from growing up in an emotionally healthy home, which isn't going to happen a lot of the time, people need to be educated about techniques and characteristics of control and abuse. I think the schools are the only place where this could reach nearly every child. And it would have to be taught in a way that didn't target religion (but could lead to a person into realizing that NOBODY has the right to treat them in certain ways, or to ask them invasive questions, or tell them how to live their lives.)

The abuser puts unreasonable demands on the victim, then blames or punishes the victim in some way when they don't/can't comply.

Sometimes the abuser expects the victim to ANTICIPATE what they want and gets upset when the victim doesn't.

Good post. It would be interesting to know how much these different forms of abuse can be legally substantiated. Photo evidence of physical abuse is one standard. What are the standards for psychological or spiritual abuse?

Cheryl's call to action is attractive for a variety of reasons, but short of appealing to dead bodies in Jonestown or Waco-type conflagrations, where evidence of abusive religious authority is patent--but also past doing anything for the victims--on what grounds can secular reason admit to or seriously recognize without controversy cultic and spiritual abuse?

Cults seem to have free reign in N. America. Some other countries have easier standards for recognizing and legally limiting the influence and power of cults.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2011 03:40PM by derrida.

Here's one that Mormons toss around that I think is harmful to children and teenagers who are just beginning to learn what's right and wrong in the world. It's telling them, "Don't act like a know it all." The Mormon adults in my family tell their children this, and I think it keeps their minds open to accept magical thinking because they have no value of themselves. They accept what their parents and other adults tell them without question. I think it's the first step to abuse.

Many mormons see this as positive, but it hampers decision making and clear thought. A person can possibly die if they follow an authority into unnecessary danger or believe without question an authoritative quack or scam artist.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many mormons see this as positive, but it hampers
> decision making and clear thought. A person can
> possibly die if they follow an authority into
> unnecessary danger or believe without question an
> authoritative quack or scam artist.

In the '60's the term "question authority" often used as an anti-war statement, and it was always turned around to be a negative among conservative groups. I still use it, and think it should be used more today. I'd like to plaster it everywhere...in front of churches for starters! I've always told my children to question authority. They're grown up now and still question. Turned out to be thinkers, not followers. QUESTION AUTHORITY!