For the last several nights, when the house finally grows quiet, I find myself reading on this site. My loss of testimony almost ended my marriage a few years back, but now my husband overlooks my garmentless, non-church or family days. We have a bit of a "don't ask, don't tell" relationship. I live in silent disbelief to protect our children's testimonies, as he prays for the return of my faith. (Not that I don't wish it could return. Believe me, I've tried and it always gives him false hope...and me guilt.) How I would love to "come out", but we live in a very judgmental Utah neighborhood and I fear the results of my actions on my children and their social standing. Okay, and my own. Already our status has suffered because of me. My husband basked in his high church callings. Now he's held back. Because I'm not perfect anymore. Life was much sweeter when we where observed to be the faith-filled, ancestor shared-a-prison-with-Joseph family. I've come to a place where I wish I could numb myself from knowing what I know...or be brave enough to face the onslaught that would be mine (and therefore my children's) for being the "weak link" and getting out. Also, I'm afraid of my father-in-law, and my children growing to see me as bad, sinful, apostate. I've been pretending myself back into the fold. Yes, I've been brainwashed so thoroughly that I'm not sure there life outside the church, because it would mean distancing myself and losing the respect and support of the people I love (and fear) most.

My daughter's about to get married to a Stake President's son. No way I'm missing her temple wedding. It seems that the church demands that I lie just to be there. Do I feel guilty about that? No. But I do feel angry. And like a coward. And mad as hell that my daughter is entering deeper into the trap of Mormonism that even picks out her underwear for her. Not that I haven't been honest with my kids and asked them to think and question. Which they do...and which causes me some level of fear that one day they will leave the church and have to pay for my corrupting lack of faith.

How do you deal with living a lie? What do you do if you "come out" and destroy your family? What if they react by going crazy with sex, drugs and rock n'roll? (;) Just partly teasing here. There is safety in obedience.) I feel so embarrassed for myself that I am my age and afraid to make my own decisions...and afraid if my children do they will be social outcasts. It just seems easier to pretend. But what kind of life is that? And what kind of adult am I? I'm still stuck being a frightened child. I'm ashamed of myself in that. So much talent and ability stuck trying to appear to be the perfect Mormon wife, pretending to the world to believe while teaching my children to question and be true to themselves...when I'm not being true to anyone. Recovering from Mormonism? I'd say. :/

Hang in there it will get better. We are all here for you. Life is so much more colorful without mormonism.

It's so sad that one really does have to fear what you fear, that your children will be looked down on or cast out of circles of friendship due to your leaving, or that they will no longer call your husband to fill important leadership roles because you have left the fold and are a liability. Mormons have been known to do everything short of burning a cross on your lawn. I think this is what spells C-U-L-T. Many other things spell that, too, and there is constant discussion here about that (such as illegally confiscating missionaries' passports when they arrive in the field so that they won't bolt).

"Child-woman unactualized" is such a good title for this thread, as this is exactly what the church tries to do with both sexes, but particularly with the women. You are to always act the child, to toss your curls, have no real opinion of your own, and especially not impede. But what kind of life is that? It's a crap life. Mormons, in short, want you to life a crap life, moving about in a very small box that hems you in with meaningless dogmatic doctrines and impossibly beliefs.

None of us can say anything particularly comforting. Many here have missed or will miss temple weddings, for instance, and the only thing you can do is point out the contradictions of Mormonism being about the family.

Be prepared with the knowledge that the church leaders may actually approach your husband someday and suggest re-thinking your marriage. I'm hardly saying it will happen, but it happens enough that you need to keep your guard up. Meanwhile, be the better person, magnanimous and gracious in all things, welcoming the home teachers but telling them to get bent in the sweetest of language. Hang in there.

Knowing (believing) that there was Truth and that is was not to be found in Mormonism.

There is a God and he has a Way for you. Seek Him and you will find Him. In this my husband and I found the way through the maze of Mormonism. We found peace and joy and it doesn't matter what any Mormon thinks of us.

There is a way, I promise.

out

Clearly you really are NOT interested....

snark snark..

So which god are you talking about and how do you know it exists?

Wow, I appreciate everyone. (Said with a toss of my curls from the "Jello Belt". ;))

Many of us have been where you are now. All the questions you're asking yourself, all your personal dilemmas, are so familiar to me.
I found that time gave me the courage I needed. I started to feel like I was suffocating my soul and no relationship that required that of me was worth it.
People who love me for me are the people I want in my life, not people who love me just because I'm Mormon. I want something real in life.
You've got a rough road ahead of you. Ultimately, the idea that gave me the courage to move forward, was the idea that I need to live in the way I want my children to live. If I want them to think for themselves, I need to think for myself. If I want them to be confident and love themselves no matter what the mormons think, I need to do likewise.
Take your time, trust your instincts, love yourself.
Best of luck to you. Keep us updated on how things go.

I used to live in the Jello Belt too, and am so glad we don't anymore. This would be so much harder if we did. My heart truly hurts for you. For now we are NOM, not that I'd lose my dh or kids (they seem to be fairly on board with me) but that we'd lose very TBM still in Utah extended family that has helped us through a lot of rough times, people that we wouldn't be here without. For them we continue the charade, luckily they aren't close enough to actually see how much or little we go. You throw out a few current issues and calling stories over the phone and they buy it all. :)
I worry about the sex, drugs and rock n roll thing too, but so far my children have developed a moral compass without to much religion; and I believe your children have a moral compass without it too.
Hang in there, you aren't alone. I wish I was there so you had someone to talk to and hang out with, without pretending to be someone else.

1. Your husband won't receive high callings in the church. *BONUS* He won't be in a position to do as much damage.

2. Your children will be ostracized by their kolobian friends, etc. *BONUS* They won't be peer-pressured into going on missions or culty activities or (shudder) temple marriage.

3. Your children might experiment with sex, drugs, & rock n' roll. *BONUS* They might have a chance at having healthy, responsible, safe sex lives free of guilt, have boundary-dissolving experiences on drugs (organic only, of course. nothing chemical) and can anyone argue that rock n' roll is one of the best examples of art produced by our species in the last 150,000 years?

So a bunch of cult members cut you out of their social circle. Who wants to stand in the true order of prayer dressed like you're going to a halloween party anyway?

I, too, have been there. It all comes down to how true you are willing to be to yourself. I feared losing friends, family, and my husband and children, too, if I dared leave the church. But I realized that I had every right to live a life of honesty,not a life full of charade and pretend. If anyone has a problem with me living my life as I chose, then they indeed are the ones with the problem. As another poster stated above, I only want people in my life who truly love ME for ME. I decided that if my husband left me because of my decision to leave the church, then he didn't really love ME. And you know what? He has stood by me. He told me he made vows and he loved me and he would honor those vows. (And I know I got one of the good ones-not all spouses think this way) I have two adult kids. One of them started to ask me questions about why I left and decided to leave herself. The other child is still very indoctrinated in the cult. And they both still love me the same as they ever did. I believe I set an example for them to always follow their own beleifs, and stand for what they believe in, no matter what others think.

I also agree that religion is not needed in order to have a moral compass. Trust that you have brought up your children in a way which will allow them to decide their own ideals of right and wrong. Give them guidance. (No, I'm not advocating sex and drugs for teenagers)But let them decide that something is wrong because it feels wrong to them, not because some church official has said it is wrong.

I know all of this sounds much easier than it really is. I understand the position you are in and I know how emotional it is. All I can tell you is you have to decide if you are willing to live a lie and not take a risk, or take the risk to live truthfully. Only you can answer that.

After effectively losing my testimony, it took me about 4 1/2 years before I finally got the courage to come out (just recently). I have to say it was so worth it. I finally feel like I'm honest and true to myself.

But I'm still learning what I think about things and how to make decisions. It takes a while to learn that after you leave Mormonism. Be patient with yourself, you'll learn over time.

Worries about sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll were a big concern for me too, even though I don't have kids yet. It takes a while, but I think you can gain confidence that you'll be able to steer your kids to what's right even better than the church can. They're playing off your fears: "You'll never be able to do it by yourself. You need us to show you what to do." But if you take the risk, you'll discover you have the wisdom, knowledge, and the strength to do it. The fact that you're honest enough with yourself to even post here shows that you're intelligent and responsible, even if you haven't "come out" yet. Your kids will be what they're supposed to be, the fact that you love them is the most important part of being a parent. You know how to be a good parent, you just have believe in yourself.

I believe in you!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 09:38PM by bubbleboy.

I feel for you. It all depends on what you feel is best for you. Is it best to pretend and keep the family together? In some situations I believe it is. Many people can live this way very well knowing they are making their spouse and children happy. In others it makes the person depressed and angry and they need to break out. If you keep living the mormon way how miserable will it continue to make you? How long can you put up with living a lie? Only you can answer this.

Your concerns and feelings are valid.

Will your children really be better off not knowing their mom has doubt? Maybe they are having doubts themselves. Or maybe they will turn their back on you which can be a legitimate reason for pretending belief as you do not want this to happen. You won't know these answers until you "come out"

I know that you do sound, at least in your writing, very unhappy. If you came here to this board, you are probably ready to make some changes. How big the changes will be is up to you.

The church seems to specifically work on making women feel helpless and childlike. Speaking for myself only, when I realized that I was just as important as a priesthod holder, that I was not a second class citizen just because I am a woman, that I don't need the gospel to feel good about myself, I became so much more happier. I feel that I am experiencing life more. I am doing things to make me happier. I feel more peaceful than I ever did even when I prayed to feel peace and happiness.

You are concerned about your husband and kids. I believe that if you continue to feel unactualized you can't be a good wife or mother as long as you are so unhappy and confused. I can't tell you what to do. I can only wish you good luck and let you know that i am sending positive thoughts your way.

You are lovely. Thank you for such a kind, thoughtful response. You are so right.

in relation to how all major religions treat women in general(kind of s$$&@Ty) IMO, did anyone ever hear of any religion that was invented by women? is there such a religion that treats women on an equal basis with males? is it always determined by the cultural kinks, such as Islam and Xtianity that makes it so hard for women to exist?
librarian was reading Huston Smith's bio and he went off for a long time when his kids were small, so that he could "find enlightenment", but made his girls think that he had died. not a family first kind of guy, and his wife threatened to leave him over his workaholic habits.
I think Msmom has found a niche in UU, but was that not also man made?
Librarian

The Church of Christian Science, Seventh-Day Adventists, the Shakers, and a few other sects were started by women. I'm sure there are others outside of the big five, as well. Traditions such as paganism and Wicca are very female-positive. I'm not sure how this ultimately relates to your point, but the answer to your question is yes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 04:18AM by pista.

Mary Baker Eddy

Also the shakers I believe were founded by a woman, but I am not certain about that.

Librarian - I hope you are well!

Yes thanks Msmom,just a tad bored with all the endless gray skies and drizzle going on.
my point in asking about women forming religions was that all the pain that is caused by man invented religions would not exist if they were made up by women.
We have no worship of the Feminine principle on a large scale, and all the majors (Catholics, Muslims and Judaics) seem to actively try to keep women down. not good for our mental health.
I follow all your posts, and admire your continued efforts with teens in Chelmsford.
Librarian

After working it out for myself at 35 I found out that my mom had been living the lie for years. In all honesty I was very annoyed at the mental turmoil she had allowed me to put myself through, the appaling life choices and the missed opportunities. We all tend to blame our parents and rightly so (according to my current beliefs and the following linked article ):
http://www.alice-miller.com/articles_en.php?lang=en&nid=58&grp=11

Conversely I do understand why she did it as all of her children now lead respectable lives and are married with children.

Summing up, I would have preferred the opportunity to think for my self at age 16 when my mom found out. Telling your children to question while living a submissive life shows them only one thing. (submit to authority). Not helpful for the development of the mind.

These are my rantings. Take or leave but be sure you THINK FOR YOURSELF and empower those in your care to do likewise.

Great point. Thanks for sharing.
I don't hide how I feel from my kids, and they know I'm pretending for others. Without bringing up details that would totally destroy their belief system, I bring up doubts; I ask them to think and search; I tell them they have choices. I show them how to live a lie and not make those choices. :/ I teach them to hide their thoughts from their own father. I need a kick in the pants.

Hats off to you.

It is terribly difficult blazing your own trail. Especially when you realise that you don't know the end from the beginning. That is one of the false hopes of Mormonism, you think you have all the answers. This is sufficient for many, I don't pretend to know why. All I know is that from experience it is a dull and stifling existence.

Don't be hard on yourself. You are almost certainly still brainwashed in ways that you have not yet thought of. I know I am (my wife tells me). I am fortunate that we are both on this journey, we left together and removed our names but there is still a long way to go for me.

I don't think that I can advise you, because my situation was different. My husband and I left together, and my kids were too young to really care. (And my husband had been playing along with the church thing for my sake for a couple of years when I finally figured it out. He was thrilled when I started having doubts). So I had emotional support at home.

But I did have an extreme fear of losing the approval and acceptance of family and friends. I wondered what people in the ward would say, or if anyone would play with my kids. I even wondered if my parents would completely reject me (they didn't).

Ultimately I decided to go with my true feelings/beliefs and we left the church.

I'll never know if or what anyone in the ward said about me, because I was out of the gossip loop. I really thought it would KILL me to be the bad girl of the neighborhood, but it was strangely freeing/empowering to go against the grain, for once. My kids did shift some of the friends they played with. I don't know if it had to do with us leaving the church or not. But only one of them hangs out with a neighborhood kid on a regular basis, the others have all their friends elsewhere.

Was it worth isolating us? Absolutely. I learned that it was okay to disappoint other people, especially when they make unreasonable demands or want you to be something you're not. I learned that it matters more (to me) what **I think**, than what other people think.

And learning to respect my own thoughts and opinions more than those of anyone else is probably THE most important gain in leaving the church.

I remember realizing a while after we left that I finally felt like a grown up. Instead of looking to other people for approval and validation, I knew for myself what mattered and what I should be doing.


And my kids? They are strong young ladies. They aren't afraid to say what they think. They aren't vulnerable to peer pressure. They are willing to think for themselves.

It hasn't always been easy for them. They have been marginalized, and sometimes singled out at school for being different. But it's gotten better over the years. Our numbers are growing.

Another thing I've learned: relationships that depend on you stuffing your thoughts and feelings and just going along to get along? . . . . they are FAKE. And they are energy drains.


I wish you luck on your journey. It's usually rough for a while. But worth it.

Thank you. <3 Powerful.

Thank you, everyone for your comments and support. :) Awwwww...to tell the truth and breathe deep! I'm grateful for your stories and experiences. You have all travelled long roads and paid the price to be where you are now. Thanks for paving the way for me to be brave. When I read on this site, pretending to be an outsider looking in on Mormonism, it is quite shocking and often funny. I never thought about it being weird for a Bishop to ask you about your underwear. Lol! ;D I shouldn't laugh, it just feels so GREAT to be with you!

I know I sounded sad in my previous post, and I am deep inside. Also, I'm angry at lost time and unending manipulation that started generations ago and is now affecting my kids. Mostly I'm angry that I've allowed that manipulation. But I'm also a basically happy person, which may have contributed to my staying stuck and looking at all the good, rather than the bad. After all, I'm not miserable so why create misery?

BUT I'm coming to that place of "coming out" and I'm excited! Truly excited! Until then, Mormonism isn't true so why worry about being damned for lying so I can see my daughter married? Also, why not have a little fun being a wolf? Funny being warned about wolves in sheep's clothing...and actually coming to see the wolf as the good guy. ;) I'm looking forward to planting questions about real church history. Getting people looking and thinking. Causing trauma in their mindsets. That sounds awful, doesn't it? But it's more like planning a massive jail break! Gotta say, I'm sick of paying tithing to the Mormon church. I am excited to take our 10% and actually tithe some of it to a cause that needs it. And I'm excited for sleeveless sundresses and smoke'n hot underwear...while I've still got it going on. And I want to drink tea and sip wine. And stop living a martyred life. I want to LIVE!

I'm not afraid of losing God. I'm all over divinity, and us being radiant beings of light. I'm a Marianne Williamson kinda gal. I'm ready to shine my light, rather than keep it small and in the control of leaders who want to tell me how much and for what it can shine. The world needs ME and YOU...not zombiefied clones of some church sanctioned ideal in high necklines, guilting themselves into the grave wearing a placid smile, belying the fear that they hadn't been quite perfect enough to make it into the highest kingdom where they would be celestialized into being okay with sharing their husbands with 21 virgins.

But first, before I go heading into full-inactivity, I need to put certain safe-guards in order. I need to "actualize" first. If I were childless it would be different. I'm not. Therefore, their well-being first...which means I throw the apple cart over a make money. ;) And move us from a neighborhood that's 97% active. (Not kidding.)

Thanks again for the support. :) Here's to all of you, as well. May your lives be blessed.

P.S. One more thing, my husband is a great man. I love him very much. Hurting him hurts me more than I can say. I hope I will be able to bring him out of the church without destroying him in the process. I've always been a questioner. He's always been a man of blind faith, a believer. A man who thinks of the church as the majority part of who he is. When that is gone...what will fill the space? What will heal the gaping whole where his father's love and respect was? Short of his dad dying, I don't know how he'd survive his fall into freedom. Or mine, when I make it public. To all of you who have gone through this, my love to you.

I have always been a questioner too.

As a kid I'd follow people around asking questions. I just want to understand.

Hmmm Idk...each must come to the water and choose to drink.

You can lead, coax and cajole...

At this juncture you need to decide who you love more...Your freedom or your family are they mutually exclusive.

Can one only have a family if they are active in MORGdom? Is that the defining criteria?

That is my fave quote too

Our deepest fear is that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

Incidentally that is MORGdoms deepest fear, that the light within will shine and suddenly the 12 and the 15 don't look so grandiose after all!

Arrrgh!

My heart aches for you, but it's good to see that you're taking such an upbeat, bright approach to what's ahead. The freedom to not only think for oneself, but to also own those thoughts and feelings is priceless beyond measure.

Your husband and children are very fortunate to have someone like you in their family. I wish you the best.

Ultimately you need to pick the best course for you and the dynamics in your family. There is no right way to handle your predicament.

First of all, remember the church is a giant societal lie. Don't feel bad for one if you lie in church to do what you want.

If you want to go to the temple with your daughter, then go. You might be able to use the opportunity down the line to plant some thoughts into her. "You know, I've always felt uncomfortable veiling my face. I've wondered why god needs male middlemen. I think it is odd that a god would want us to know secret names and handshakes. It makes god seem so controlling."

Or, you could play the guilt card. Don't go to the temple. Tell your daughter the truth- that you don't really believe. Tell her to notice that the church is really not about family because you can't even attend your daughter's wedding. Her whole life she will know she excluded you by choice. Eventually when she is a mother she will see how bad that was. Tell her you forgive her because you understand the control the church teachings have in her life.

As far as your husband, you have the same situation. My husband played along, planting little seeds, for 10 years until I studied myself out. He said, "What took you so long!"

If you decide to distance yourself from the church and preserve your marriage, you will need to know from your husband if he is married to you or the church. Yes, your family will see you as the bad apostate problem in the family. You will need to grow a thick skin and dismiss their efforts to "fix" you. You may have to make a rule that no one will discuss religion.

Ultimately your life may change enough that you will not have enough in common with your spouse. It can be a very painful process. Or it can lead to a new level of honesty with your spouse with more respect.

There is no rush. If you transform slowly, sharing questions along the way, your spouse might begin to question too. See if there is something that could replace the fulfillment he was getting in his church callings. Maybe he could be a bigger fish in a different pond- like getting into the Chamber of Commerce or reaching athletic goals he never had time to pursue.

Whether or not you decide to be confrontational or honest is very personal. You know the dynamics of your family and what makes you the most comfortable. Don't feel bad if you have to live a lie at first. Eventually the truth and who you want to be will surface and you will adapt the best way for you.

Just stop going to church.

Take a stand in a very calm and polite way. Let him know you love him, this is not about him.

Go make your coffee and read.

DO not fight with him, just continue to be loving, but stand your ground!