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Posted by: fordescape ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 02:04PM

I just don't think I can set foot in a church again. Catholicism just didn't work out although I gave it a long try. I'm still interested in Christianity but there is too much us vs. them, left vs. right BS going on for me to be happy.

I most surely will not be returning to the Morg.

I'm neither atheist nor agnostic. I am skeptical of preachers (and bishops) who want my money.

Oh well. It's not as if I didn't try.

Just had to say this to someone. Thank you for listening (or I should say, reading.)

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 02:07PM

I made the rounds of various churches when I left Catholicism. But I haven't been to church in many years apart from funerals. I've sometimes wondered why you can't "graduate" from church in the same manner that you graduate from school. I feel no need for church at present, but I realize that might change in the future.

Good luck to you. There is no right or wrong answer -- just whatever works for you.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 02:15PM

start your own church.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 02:23PM

I became burned out from church likewise.

Currently attend Jewish services. Don't consider that my final destination, but have been there for six plus years. That's the longest time I've stayed with any one religion post-Mormonism.

I'm not a "joiner." Have not "converted" to anything since leaving Mormonism. I resigned from Mormonism, having no desire to return to that hell hole.

Like you, I still believe in deity. Consider myself a mixture of Jewish, Christian, and Deist beliefs.

On my "off" days from worship services occasionally I may watch Charles Stanley on tv, like this morning. He's maybe the only televangelist I'll watch.

Start and end each day with prayer, and strive to live right. That seems to sum up my religion presently.

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 04:20PM

I love Charles Stanley! I never miss a chance to listen to him.
He teaches pure love. No Hell Fire and Damnation from him.

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 12:10AM

I think Stanley would be surprised to discover he is a televangelist.

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Posted by: ptbarnum ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 02:38PM

Remember that Johnny Cash song, "I've been everywhere"?

I feel like that. Catholicism after the Morg. Then Anglican/Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist and UU. Then Judaism for a while, then a stint as a pagan. Wicca, Hinduism, New Age. Then Buddhism, the Tao, and Deism (not much of a real presence in society but I read what people wrote about it). I even tried Asatru...Norse mythology. Then back to monotheism with a deep study of Islam and it's offspring, Baha'i Faith.

I was looking for God. I found people. Just people. Some very good, some bad, some scary. I found people just like the Morg whom I knew only wanted my money and obedience, and also people who'd give the shirt off their back if I asked. I found people who told me I could only stay safe if I thought their way, and people who told me I had to throw off all conventional thought.

Nothing worked. I never found anything that could satisfy my mind once I'd seen the pathetic excuse for organized crime lurking behind the curtain of Moism. I found no confirmation in prayer or worship and I was surprised to find I was totally okay with there being nobody out there to find. Culturally I didn't ever fit in, I'm too suspicions, ask too many questions and don't accept pat answers, and each faction seems to have it's own requirements to fit in that I didn't possess and wasn't willing to fake. Then I realized I didn't NEED any of this stuff to live a happy life, and let go of looking for the ONE TRUE THING...

And I have been just fine, ever since. I have friends of all beliefs including no belief. I say to you: embrace your freedom. Jump in. The water is fine.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 03:53PM

I'd like to find a church to attend, but I'm not satisfied with any of them.

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 04:10PM

I consider myself a Christian, and don't need to go to any church to prove myself so.

I daily give thanks for all good, and pray "to do likewise".

No Jesus statues in my home (and even gave away a small one someone gave me).

During my 'active' years in the church, I 'served' in a stake calling of interacting with other religious groups (including those mentioned in previous and above posts), and never found one I was anyway near wanting to attend on a regular basis.

Indeed, I find that one doesn't need to be a member of a religious group in order to do good deeds and be a good person.

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 04:15PM

I think if I walked into a church again, I'd wonder what the point of being there was.

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Posted by: CateS ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 04:47PM

I think a lot of people do it for the social aspect.

I would feel the same way as you.

Although, as an atheist, I think it's a shame there aren't any easy, comprehensive atheist social organizations like churches. I would like that social aspect but I just don't believe in the supernatural.

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Posted by: Aquarius123 ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 04:35PM

I went through a very short phase of searching for a good church for me. Eventually something dawned on me. Wait a minute, why do many of us think we even need any church, now or ever??? So, that was the end of that.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2017 04:35PM by Aquarius123.

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Posted by: 3rdAffirm ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 04:39PM

Like those above, I listen to Dr. Charles Stanley too. He's the best of them all. If his church was in my town, I'd attend regularly.

But I will never go back to the Morg, and I don't attend a church now at all. I may in the future for the community aspect, but I feel no need for it now. And I have no guilt about it WHATSOEVER.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 06:19PM

I worship for twofold reasons.

One is the fellowshipping aspect.

The second is for the prayers and liturgy spoken.

That aspect of worship is what keeps me going back. That's something I don't get on my own. I can pray alone. There's something about the communal prayers that lifts me up, and each other.

We say prayers regularly for our families, communities, country, and the world ie, for peace. Where I now go there is emphasis on giving back to the community, compassion and charity. That genuineness of spirit was something I did not find as a Mormon.

Now I expect authenticity in worship. Am circumspect always.

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Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 06:41PM

I'm looking for me
You're looking for you
We're looking in at other
And we don't know what to do
They call me The Seeker
I've been searching low and high
I won't get to get what I'm after
Till the day I die

Religions sell you what you already have. I like a line from the movie “Trolls”. Happiness isn’t something you eat. It’s already inside you.

Recovering from Mormonism is so traumatic, it’s a long journey in itself. Just try to enjoy the ride. Life is an experience, not a test.

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Posted by: 3rdAffirm ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 07:50PM

Amyjo, thank you for your input. If you don't mind sharing, I would love to know which denomination you are attending. I've read other exMos who like the "High Church". But I'm not sure if it's Catholic (I won't go there), Episcopal, Presbyterian, Anglican, etc.

Thank you!

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 08:09PM

I moved from agnosticism and irreligiousity by hanging around a Christian book store. Read up and decide what convinces you to be true, and how you (and others) personally engage that truth. (I'm a little uncomfortable saying it that way, because some people assert that anything you feel is true is really true. You once felt LDS was true, right? Enough said.)

A few titles to get you started:
"Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis. (Mormons like his fiction--I wonder about his theology?)
"The Case for Christ" Lee Strobel
"The Case for Faith" Lee Strobel
"More Than a Carpenter" Josh McDowell

And my favorite recommendation: Get a modern translation and read portions of the New Testament, at random or in some kind of order. I strongly endorse starting with Luke's Gospel in the ESV Study Bible, very readable with excellent footnotes, charts, diagrams, and illustrations.

"You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

PS/Edit: "High Churh" simply means formal worship, where the clergy wear vestments (sometimes quite ornate), follow a proscribed form of worship, have set prayers and recitations, and classical-style music. LDS would be classified as low (very!) church. Neither is intrinsically right or wrong, it's a matter of style and tradition. Look through my reading list and consider other people's recommendations, and visit different churches. Most clergy will be happy to meet one-on-one and explain their beliefs, and there's no need to feel embarrassed or anything.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2017 08:14PM by caffiend.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 10:55PM

I've been attending a Jewish synagogue near my home.

It's Conservative. I prefer that to Reform or Orthodox, and some of the newer hybrid variations.

There's one in Salt Lake City that I know of. And one in Ogden that meets regularly. The towns nearer to where I might retire has fellowship groups that meet once a month.

If I lived in Las Vegas would be surrounded by Jewish people - there are over 80,000 Jews living in Vegas!

Only app 5,000 live in the SLC area. Not sure about Ogden. Ogden is where my Jewish grandmother lived (but she didn't practice.) She was orphaned at age six. Her Jewish mother is buried in the oldest Jewish cemetery in SLC. Grandma was sent away to Menlo Park where she was raised by Protestant aunts.

Talk about a small world. She and grandpa married in San Francisco. Then after my mother was born, they up and moved to Utah - where they spent the rest of their lives. Gramps hated Mormons all his days. He didn't speak to my mom for fourteen years after she converted, out of spite. He only started speaking to her again on his deathbed.

She converted because my dad was a Mormon.

The weird thing in all the Jewish labyrinth, is I am fully Jewish and didn't need to convert to be Jewish. That was/is sort of a welcome relief because I doubt I'd have gone through all the trouble to become Jewish. Although it is a thinking man and woman's religion.

There are some converts where I attend. When I went with my grandma when I was a teenager to one in Salt Lake City, (I dragged her along with me to check out our Hebraic roots together.) The rabbi there told us after services that Salt Lake has quite a few Mormon converts to Judaism.

That was an odd trip in itself. Besides bonding with my grandmother - she told me partways through the service that it was the same synagogue her mother had taken her to before she was orphaned! She hadn't been back since she was six years old.

Small, small world. :)

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2017 11:35AM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: unbelievable2 ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 10:20PM

After leaving the cult I vowed no more religion for me. I want a direct, personal relationship with my Savior without any interference. There are no churches in heaven. All churches on earth are man-made. Discerning genuine Christian preachers is important to me so I can get some spiritual healing and nourishment each week. I listen to Dr. David Jeremiah, Jenzeten Franklin, Dr. Charles Stanley and sometimes Bishop T.D. Jakes. I get good ideas from each of them that works for me. I take my elderly mother to the local Catholic Church each week and take the sacrament there. I was baptized there when I was an infant and my name is still on their membership rolls. I have detached from religion. All I care about is my relationship with the Lord. My lifestyle is based on keeping the 10 commandments so I feel comfortable in my spiritual journey independent from churches. My faith is stronger now than when I was in the cult. I also experience more peace and fruits of the Spirit which tells me that religion gets in the way of a relationship with the Lord. My addiction to co-dependency got me into the cult at a very young age and now I feel I made major strides in healing from my addiction when I left the cult. I will never return there. And I feel no guilt, fear, shame or despair for my choices. My learning about life continues with joy not cult garbage piled on wearing me down.

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Posted by: fordescape ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 11:50PM

Thank you all for not being dogmatic. I do appreciate each response thus far.

I thought I was the only one who paid attention to televangelists. I don't always see eye to eye with them but they know the Bible better than me.

I have also been to see Reform Jews, Zens and Unitarians, who of course, run the gamut. I was a practicing wiccan before I became Christian. Sometimes I long to go back to it, where I could practice as a solitary. I kept all of my tarot cards, which I guess says a lot.

I won't be a JW but other than that I'm open, including to the idea that maybe I just need some time apart from organized religion.

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Posted by: ptbarnum ( )
Date: November 28, 2017 02:27PM

Even as an atheist now I can say with affection that nothing beats a Samhain Sabbat for ambiance.

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Posted by: Tall Man, Short Hair ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 11:56PM

When I first started visiting other churches I found a non denominational church (Calvary Chapel) and it was a good fit. The music was upbeat and the teaching was generally just out of the Bible without too much "us vs them" going on. They didn't even pass a plate, preferring to just have a box in the back for those wishing to donate. Mostly just helping people integrate with a bigger community seeking to know more about God.

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Posted by: 3rdAffirm ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 01:00AM

Thank you, "Caffiend", "Amyjo" and the rest of you who responded to my question. I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts, experiences and suggestions. :):):)

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 01:10AM

That does not mean all religion is bad. Some is, more than I would like to admit, but there are healthy churches where Christ and the Bible are taught in sensible ways to intelligent people with spiritual needs.

An analogy: Suppose you were horribly dumped by a seductive but treacherous, dysfunctional sweetheart, who was charming on the outside but selfish and harmful on the inside? And you were badly hurt, having your trust betrayed? would you swear off any possibility of love, a healthy relationship with a responsible person who can accept your love, and love you back?

Unfortunately, some people can't. You don't have to be one of them.

Last thought: Read, think, and (yes) pray for God's truth. It's out there, it helps and sometimes it hurts. When you're ready to visit churches, use their websites, and see if it's a place you might fit in. Check their calendar and see if there are activities and ministries you're looking for. Family? Couples? Bible Study? Community service? Bible study? Mentoring? You can always stop going, and probably get nothing more than a follow-up phone call, letter, or two.

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Posted by: Boballooie0691 ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 01:51AM

Good post. Enjoy the answers. And ya just got to love ya some Charles Stanley! I have been to many churches and was a member of several (preMormon). I have been to a few since leaving "the church", but mainly for funerals, or invite. I don't need another person telling me how to worship or what to believe. I have received my best spiritual advice from people other than Mormon; The Mormon view was too dogmatic and inflexible. They try to "put God in a box". As far as experience goes then non-denominational churches got it going on. There's not much of a creed or doctrine to tie them down. They let God out of the box, so to speak.But, I think I'm pretty much done with organized religion. Thanks Moism

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Posted by: Very Afraid ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 02:06AM

I feel like I'm living the highest, best, most noble and honest and loving life possible, by following my conscience, obeying the Ten Commandments, the Golden Rule, and the Laws of the Land. I'm considerate of others.

Mormonism crushed me, and the Mormon abuse my children and I suffered was too severe for us to "get over." I have PTSD, and the few times I have forced myself to enter a Mormon church for a baptism, baby blessing, or funeral, I have become physically ill, and so depressed, that I couldn't go to work for two days after. The bottom line is--the price is too high.

I feel almost as uncomfortable in any religious, closed-door, large group situation, especially if people start asking me personal questions. I have to run away!

I have a place in the canyon behind our house, which I call "The Cathedral", which is a circle of trees that meet at the top, like a high dome. It is outdoors, out in nature, where I am free to come and go (with my dog), and where I can pray silently. I worship love, joy, beauty, beautiful music, Nature, The Universe, an ant hill, all of life. Uplifting poems are my new scriptures, which I keep on my night stand. Knowledge is my new "wisdom". I'm comfortable with ambiguity. I'll keep asking questions, understanding that I will never get all the answers. Science is what I worship now. I am happier and more at peace, than I have ever been!

Some of the most wonderful people I have ever known and loved have been Atheists. There is no need for organized religion.

Sometimes posters talk about worshiping and socializing in the same breath.

For social contacts, and a sense of belonging, I have my family, my two extended families, work and colleagues there, schools and volunteer work, the community, a group of childhood friends, University friends, music friends, ski friends, etc. The demands of these groups ebb and flow, with the times, but none of them drain the life out of me, like Mormonism did. The attention I pay to my children is out of love, because they are my life. The time I put into my career pays me back in providing a living for us, plus I help others.

I feel almost superstitious--like I should throw salt over my shoulder--when I say that I don't need organized religion.

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Posted by: itzbeen20 ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 02:20AM

Like what you say. Did come to realize that xty was the only way m could realize itself. There is no real structure or even accountability.
Not really my problem.
It is also somewhat personality driven. Past being a child, do not need this imposition on me.
Just saying.

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Posted by: Moe Howard ( )
Date: November 28, 2017 12:57PM

Very good post and replies. My spirituality is very close to "Very Afraid".

Honestly, I respect people's religious beliefs as long as they respect mine but at a personal level, I just don't understand. Specifically leaving one religion for another, sorry, it's all the same thing, just a different interpretation of the bible. Sure there are some charismatic preachers with a positive message but in the end, it's all about money and power. And no, I've never watched Charles Stanley. For the people of faith,
Do you believe in the immaculate conception or that Mary was impregnated by a Roman soldier? Your choice.

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Posted by: Never Mo but raised Fundie ( )
Date: November 28, 2017 08:51PM

I grew up Christian. (VERY Christian)

If I cared enough to put a name on it, I'd probably call myself agnostic at this point.

If I were interested in attending a Christian church again, I'd check out one of the liberal versions of the United Methodist Church. (The denomination is currently sorting through its position on LGBT issues and some churches are on each "side". The one thing I do like is that there is an official process for the discussion and it appears to be much more civil than many of the other Christian denominations.) The thing I really like about the United Methodists is that all the individual churches I know about tend to emphasize serving the community and actually DO things to help others.

I tried attending a Unitarian Universalist church for a while but honestly, they were just as far into accepting people only like themselves as the Southern Baptist churches were. (Just different sides of course.)

The other option that looks very attractive to me is Sunday Assembly. Their motto is Live Better, Help Often, Wonder More. The one closest to me is too far to attend but it does look like a good place to try.

I really get the desire to be part of a group. It is a core part of our being from when it was essential for survival and it is a difficult thing to be without. An alternative place to find a tribe might be via something like or working as a volunteer somewhere in your community.

Good luck in your search!

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: November 29, 2017 05:08AM

I tried going back to the Presbyterian church I grew up in.

I tried another, very liberal, kind of New Age thing.

Then I decided that I just wasn't interested any more. I don't know, or even really care whether or not there are deities out there.

It's kind of a non-issue.

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Posted by: scmd ( )
Date: November 29, 2017 05:38AM

Many people live very fulfilling lives without the inclusion of organized religion. i'm sorry for any sense of loss you may feel, and if you legitimately need organized religion on your life, keep looking. There's a whole lot out there.

Though I do profess a basic belief in a Creator and in the historic existence of Jesus, religion for me is music. I'll go where the music of my liking and the acoustics of the building (and ideally a bit of stained glass; I really like stained glass) are best.

When I'm stuck in the wee hours waiting around for someone to be ready for surgery or a patient to be well enough for me to leave the premises and it seems likely the time will be too short for a decent nap because if I nap for too short a time, it does me no good and makes it impossible to fall asleep ninety minutes later when I'm home, I watch YouTube videos while I'm still at work. I've seen several videos of that Utah-based One Voice Choir. I'm not sure why I keep watching them. The children's voices individually are somewhat mediocre, though it's my opinion that it is what white kids are supposed to sound like at their ages when they don't force their voices. The bigger stuff should come later. Many (not all) Caucasian kids who have fill-an-auditorium voices are damaging their vocal chords. The same may be true of some but not all other ethnicities. There have been ethnic differences found in analyses of vocal cords.

When I was a kid, we might not all have been the world's greatest singers, but most of us could replicate the notes of "The star-Spangled Banner" (not that it's a great example of music at it's fines). The way kids hear it sung today, most of them probably have no idea what are the actual notes of the song, or that it's supposed to be performed in 3/4 as opposed to 4/4. Some kids don't know how to sing "Silent Night" because they're more familiar with Ashanti's or some other artist's overly-embellished version than the song as it's supposed to be sung. Then they think they should try to sing that way when some can barely match pitch. All of it is still better than not singing at all, which is even more common in some settings, but it's going to lead to a generation of rotten music when we're all in old folks' homes and have no control over the radio dial or CD or MP3 player or whatever plays music in the distant future.

The choir's director, Masa Fukuda, seems to understand the idea of these kids not trying to embellish as though they're little Beyonces. That's not the best way for any little kids to learn to sing. They need to earn to match pitch, then to sing simple tunes on-key following a solfege pitch sequence, then to sing more complicated melodies, eventually with their full voices but without trying to sound like Whitney Houston did in her prime. As they hit their late teens, he seems to give them some latitude with regard to mild embellishment, counterpoint, or deviation from melody, though perhaps every single nuance of every note is scripted. I don't know what it is he does in training these kids.

Someone like Quincy Jones or even the white guy who directs that PS22 choir from Staten Island would probably pull out their hair in trying to create music with all of these mostly little mostly white voices. There's enough similarity in the Asian voice and the Caucasian voice that Fukuda probably understands what these children should be able to do. There is just enough diversity (Polynesian, African-American, Asian) in the group to make the ethnics appear not like total tokens, and those kids, too, seem to be encouraged to use their natural voices, though they seem to sing the notes as written.

I have to give Fukuda props, though. You work with what you're given. I don't know how the group is financed, but not everything can be free. Sometimes parents have to pay for their children's activities. If you have a group in Utah that has to be self-funded, and you expect children who have been formally trained in music fundamentals, which Fukuda seems to expect, you're going to end up with a lot of white kids in the group.

What I like very best about it, though, is that sometimes the group makes videos in churches. They don't use LDS chapels, though, and I don't think it's because of any ban on recordings in chapels. Fukuda just knows the other churches are prettier. He uses churches with pretty candles, real wood as opposed to fake paneling, and beautiful stained-glass windows in the background. It really creates a nicer effect.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2017 05:40AM by scmd.

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Posted by: readwrite ( )
Date: November 29, 2017 03:38PM

I think you'll find it... if (when) you stop [start] looking.

Just do what you want (like); you'll be [stay] happy.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: November 29, 2017 04:08PM

Why search for the light switch when you aren't in the dark?

Most adults know very well how to be a good person and a valuable member of society without someone constantly telling them. I suspect you are one of those who already know how.

Kindness is something to do rather than listen to from a pew.

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Posted by: koriwhore ( )
Date: November 29, 2017 04:13PM

Before you throw in the towel on relugion completely, try Zen Dudeism, the slowest growing religion on the planet.

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Posted by: Visitors Welcome ( )
Date: November 29, 2017 04:26PM

One doesn't lose one's religion. One gets rid of it.

Faith is no substitute for knowledge, but an obstacle to it.

Keep an open, but sceptical mind.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 12:46PM

I didn't know it was yours.

It certainly NEVER WAS mine.

I threw it away like the trash that it is.


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Posted by: readwrite ( )
Date: December 01, 2017 01:52PM


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