Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: lilburne ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 11:48AM

I left the church a few years ago after finding out the facts. I had a serious discussion with my TBM brother and gave him the CES letter. He read it all the way through. When we next met he agreed with the findings, the TSCC is a fraud, Smith lied. That was it, he knew.

Except...His wife was from a strong TBM family and it would be unlikely that she'd leave and it could cause family issues. So he keeps going on the basis of keeping things stable at home but also because he sees the church as largely harmless.

Then, because he was mentally out he comes across these audio books by a guy called Chuck Mistler, and commences to study them. A few weeks later he's now re-mapped himself as a Mistlerite but active LDS - he attends the local TSCC each week and holds a calling. He plays the LDS game but secretly doesn't believe a word of it.

He then focuses in on the Old Testament and other Mistler teachings. Roll forward a few years he's still attending TSCC as a covert exmo, and yet is fully crackpot in his views. He now holds some half Jew half Christian view of the world. He has one of those Jewish skull caps, a door mezuzah, candelabra, remembers passover, has banned christmas trees from the house along with advent calendars and any mention of Father Christmas, his kids are not allowed to eat pork and his meat must be Halal.

I'm not even sure what he is but we had a huge break up. After years of being like best mates, we were chatting and i asked him why does he believe those things, and he called me an Atheist - I refer to myself as an 'optimistic deist' but by his OT definition because i don't believe in Jehovah i'm an Atheist.

I discussed the story of Noah and the flood with him, even though the science says no, he insists it is God's power that conceals the true meaning from us.

He left and deleted me from social media (he took offence that i dared challenge the literalism of his OT readings even though the discussion was polite and rational).

We've not spoken in 3 years. He looks like he's well on his way to crazy town. From a few people i know even some members in the TSCC ward think he's apostate or in to some cult. I can see him being excommunication as he won't even write God, it has to be G-d in ever instance.

How Mormonism infects the mind and causes family issues. Religion per say is just a virus that damages society.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: rubi123 ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 11:58AM

I feel bad for his kids!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 12:23PM

Any reference to the Lord's name in Hebrew is with the vowel removed, hence the dash.

He has joined a Messianic synagogue where he lives, or adopted their beliefs and ways.

What you describe is indicative of a Messianic Jew.

I attended one where I live for several years. It became too much like LDS for me to want to remain there. So I shifted to a mainstream Jewish synagogue.

Chuck Mistler is popular among Messianics.

The Jewish skull cap is called a kippah. It's worn by males when entering a synagogue for worship or prayer. His diet has gone kosher.

I know many fully Jewish people who no longer observe kosher laws. For some reason Messianic Jews embrace kosher dietary laws more than some Jews do.

Christmas is considered a pagan tradition to Messianics. So is Easter. Bah humbug, there goes the joy of goodies and presents for the kids on Christmas and Easter morns.

The mezuzah is kept on the doorframe of the entrance to a home for blessing and protection. It's sacred in the sense a Torah verse is recited, written, and rolled up inside. Jews pause to blow a kiss to the mezuzah on entering or leaving their home (or shul,) as a form of prayer and for blessing.

Candelabra is the menorah in Judaism. It's used for candle lighting ceremonies during special occasions.

"Synagogues have a continually lit lamp or light in front of the Ark, where the Torah scroll is kept, called the ner tamid (eternal light). This lamp represents the continually lit ner Elohim of the menorah used in Temple times."

Messianic Jews are a mixture of Jews who convert to Christianity. And Christians who wish to worship with a Jewish expression of faith, instead of a Christian one. They see themselves as instrumental in paving the way to save their Jewish brothers and sisters "in Christ," as though theirs is a special calling; not too much difference between that mindset and the Mormon mindset in seeking to convert others to Mormonism.

Jews reject proselytizing in any form. They view Jews who become Messianics as traitors to their face, and reject them outright. Although there is a fair number of Messianic Jews who live in Israel, they are persecuted and discriminated there because of the Jewish perspective toward them.

Messianic Judaism is better than Mormonism, if you were to pick and choose. I'd worry less about him and more about his wife.

It's an unusual alliance IMO.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: lilburne ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 12:34PM

Thanks Amyjo that is a useful post.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 04:52PM

I cannot put my finger on it, but there is something fishy about Chuck Missler. He has a ministry up in Idaho and associates with Firefighters for Christ in some manner. An exmo sent me a bunch of his cassettes years ago. Perhaps it is my religious skepticism after Mormonism. Chuck, in his tapes, constantly boasts about his business acumen and financial success. In other ways he is also humble bragging similar to Mormon GAs, in particular Tom Monson. I am put off by such individuals. When ever someone is so boastful, I am immediately distrustful. Your brother should look elsewhere.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 02:59PM

Chuck Missler wrote a book devoted to exploring the hidden codes in the bible, he calls "Cosmic Codes."

It's a hardbound, thick edition published 1999. I bought a copy some years ago for one of my children to read. It is still sitting on a bookshelf in my house. It was too much reading for me to want to tackle.

And my by then adult child likewise had no interest in reading it.

If there are hidden messages encoded in the bible, they're lost on the majority of readers.

A Jewish man who would regularly speak to Messianic groups has a personal relationship with Chuck Missler, and has traveled to Coeur d'Alene, Idaho to meet with him as a guest and public speaker. The Jewish man is former Mossad who has spent his retirement fighting anti-Semitism and working with Messianics around the country (although he himself now resides in Israel.)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2017 03:02PM by Amyjo.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 03:26PM

Sad that he'd rather believe in Noah than have a good brother. Noah won't be fun company as he ages.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: nevermojohn ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 03:54PM

It is sad. I suspect an underlying mental disorder. He has done you a favor by cutting you out of his life. I feel for his wife and kids. He sounds like a crazy abusive bully. He gets to decide about what everyone eats and what everyone celebrates. It sounds like his wife has been silenced.

This had nothing to do with you and the CES letter. This is just craziness that would have come out in one form or another.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Pooped ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 04:19PM

Sounds like your brother has jumped out of the pot into the fire. I remember how I tried to find a better religion after leaving Mormonism and did not succeed. I'm just not strongly enough indoctrinated to ignore the facts of life.

My sister retains her membership as a Mormon but attends some brand of Evangelical church. I think she actually believes in both but just focuses on the teachings she likes best. She mostly likes to have religious people pity her for having an awful family. She gave me a version of the Bible she likes best as a Christmas present and I donated it to Good Will.

My sister goes about a year at a time without communicating with my mother and myself after she feels she's had her feelings hurt. Then she walks back into our lives like nothing happened and commences telling us how much she loves us both until the next time she feels offended. She is most offended when she asks us questions about our personal finances and we don't share with her. She also wants access to Mom's health records so she can anticipate how soon Mom will die. She's been anticipating Mom's death for the past six years. She's not talking to us at the moment and we have no idea why. But Mom and I both know we will be back in her good graces by Christmas Day so she can come by and pick-up any gifts (especially those of the monetary type) coming her way. She's crazy like a fox.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 05:19PM

No religion should come before family.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: baura ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 06:45PM

lilburne Wrote:

> I discussed the story of Noah and the flood with
> him, even though the science says no, he insists
> it is God's power that conceals the true meaning
> from us.
> He left and deleted me from social media (he took
> offence that i dared challenge the literalism of
> his OT readings even though the discussion was
> polite and rational).

A literal reading of an obviously mythological story is what
"conceals the true meaning from us." Myth does not work by
being considered literally, historically true. Doing that makes
you lose the whole point.

If I've learned anything from all the ancient literature I've
studied, it's that the ancients were steeped in metaphor. We
think they were too naive and stupid to not have meant things
literally. It's we who are the stupid ones.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 06:57PM

definitely not Messianic, but I just don't care. He doesn't celebrate Christmas, so we consider his gift for Hanukkah and mine Christmas. He sometimes talks to me as though he'd like to see me convert. Ain't gonna happen.

I kind of tried to convert him to mormonism in our 20s. I just didn't think he'd really buy it. I never believed anyone would. He planned on raising his kids in a common religion and that would have been his point if he converted, not that he believed. I couldn't find myself married to him if he couldn't take me to the temple, so I let him go. What a stupid mistake.

I just don't care what my boyfriend's religion is. I support him in whatever he decides he wants to do. He was very observant while raising his kids. Not so much now. I know he observes Passover, etc., on his own and doesn't include me. He doesn't attempt temple, but then there isn't one here that I know of. He has his ways of "observing."

Why not let him just do things his way? He may have jumped from the frying pan into the fire for a reason--feeling like he NEEDS religion in his life and is searching.

I do understand why he attends church. Everyone will pity his children and his wife if he lets her attend alone. They will treat them as less than. I know it is difficult for others to understand that, but I was a single woman in mormonism for a long time. It isn't a nice place to be.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 12:39AM

religion makes people crazy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In

Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
       **  ********    ******          **  **    ** 
       **  **     **  **    **         **  **   **  
       **  **     **  **               **  **  **   
       **  ********   **   ****        **  *****    
 **    **  **         **    **   **    **  **  **   
 **    **  **         **    **   **    **  **   **  
  ******   **          ******     ******   **    **