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Posted by: tamboruco ( )
Date: February 09, 2018 12:52PM

Anyone have any intel on why the vistor's centers are closing? My guess is they are underused. Some of the closures seem more reasonable than others. Mesa Temple - hmmm? That temple is located in a fairly dense Mormon populated area. Seems like there are plenty of missies to staff them regardless of how busy they are.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: February 09, 2018 04:48PM

Lack of interest in attending

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: February 09, 2018 05:57PM

I couldn't even tell you if my local Wicked Witch's Castle...err...temple *has* a visitor's center. Nobody I know has ever been there.

Wait, I'll google it:

OK, the answer is: sort of.

"The public is invited to tour the manicured temple grounds and a visitors' center honoring the San Diego Mormon Battalion, located 10 miles south of the temple in Old Town San Diego."

I wish both of those would close.

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Posted by: PtLoma ( )
Date: February 10, 2018 01:40PM

The San Diego Temple is highly visible, shoehorned against I-5, on a parcel so small the patrons have to park off site. It's on a residential street lined with apartment buildings and is not an area for tourists.

The Visitors Center is in Old Town, which gets a lot of tourist foot traffic, so they try to tie in Batallion history with the history of Early California. There IS an adjacent temple, however:

It's the original building of Congregation Beth Israel, San Diego's first and largest Jewish synagogue. The original building---owned by a church by the 1970s---was going to be demolished, but was saved by a fundraising campaign by Beth Israel members. It was moved to its present historic park location along with other historic buildings. Today the building is owned by the local government and is open to the public.

I love to see the startled look on the faces of TBMs when I tell them "after visiting the Battalion visitors center, I always go through the temple" The Visitors Center pre-dates the SD LDS Temple, but the historic park with the Beth Israel temple pre-dates the Battalion Visitors Center.

I have also been asked by TBMs if a recommend is required to visit the Beth Israel temple.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2018 01:48PM by PtLoma.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: February 09, 2018 09:22PM

Maybe anyone with the slightest curiosity about Mormon temples has already learned more than they need online.

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Posted by: Hervey Willets ( )
Date: February 09, 2018 09:34PM

I frequently cut through the Temple property to get to the 7-11. It struck me the other day how dead quiet and empty the visitors center is.

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Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: February 09, 2018 10:27PM

Tithing income is not what it used to be, so they have to tighten the belt LOL

They apparently saw this coming years ago, that's why they moved into more commercial ventures.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 09, 2018 10:33PM

I was at the St. George Temple visitors' center early in the afternoon on a Thursday, last August, and I was the only visitor. The fastest pair of sister missionaries quickly claimed me. There was another two (slower) pairs and then just before leaving, another pair came out of an office, with a distinguished older male, who was introduced to me as the Temple President.

They have to be desperate to have paid that much attention to a dark brown hobo like me.

One of the winning sisters was from Tahiti and I was told that "a lot of French tourists" come through there, and that's why she was assigned there. I suppose it's for the Zion and Bryce Canyon adventures, but it's a stretch think of them being interested in the temple, unless it's part of the package.

Possibly one of their very serious problems is that their visitors are all likely to have smart phones, and can whip them out to ask Google of Siri about mormons. I yanked mine out of my pocket when the Tahitian LM told me that amongst ALL the WHITE MEN currently serving as special witnesses for the name of Jesus Christ, was an Argentine, Bro. Rasband. When I read his LDS(dot)org bio to her, she had to recant. But she kept saying she was sure that she'd read that some place...

When the other LM said that there were men of color in the GAs, I asked where their photographs were, there in the visitors' center...

I'm hopeful there was talk of closing the visitors' center after I left.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: February 10, 2018 03:07PM

The thing that I always noticed was how only Mormons visited the various visitor centers. I mean, who, having seen the billboard along I-80, gets off the Interstate to go visit the Winter Quarters visitor center in Nebraska? Only Mormons, I assure you. It was brought home to me the first and only time that family members took me to see the San Diego temple grounds. As we walked onto the grounds, two "sister" missionaries attacked us like giant leeches. We assured them that we were already LDS, so they backed off. We were there for no more than 20 minutes, and no one else entered the grounds. It's just not that interesting to non-Mormons. Mormons have long believed that if they only built an ostentatious temple along a freeway, random people will say to themselves, "Gosh! I'd do anything to go into that building!" So they pull off the highway, enter the grounds, get attacked by missionaries, get the scoop on Joseph Smith, and then say, "I want this so badly! Please send the missionaries to my house!" Somebody's delusional, and it ain't me. Well, maybe it's me, but not in this case.

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Posted by: PtLoma ( )
Date: February 11, 2018 01:47PM

The Newport Beach CA temple has been made nearly invisible from State Highway 73 due to the erection of sound-deflecting walls along the road.Also, the city required the use of a "buff seashell" exterior color, instead of the ubiquitous stark white, so it tends to blend into the surrounding properties. Originally the spire was supposed to be c. 130-140 feet tall (same as the Redlands temple) but the city made them reduce it to 89 feet, which makes it harder to see. No Visitors Center, as it's in a residential area not populated by tourists.

Had TSCC gotten its way with the original white exterior and full height spire, it would have been far more conspicuous.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2018 01:48PM by PtLoma.

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Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: February 11, 2018 02:10PM

Where I really want to visit is the new Christ Cathedral in Gardena when it opens for full service next year.

It was bought by the Catholics when tv preacher Rev. Schuller went into bankruptcy.

Looks like the Catholics are doing a nice job retrofitting all the glass.

And - can you believe it - part of the huge acreage surrounding the cathedral will be a plaza with chairs,tables umbrellas so the people can have coffee,food and enjoy the peaceful scenery.

The diocese said they want everyone who comes to feel comfortable and loved by God.
What an idea LOL

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Posted by: PtLoma ( )
Date: February 11, 2018 02:39PM

You mean in Garden Grove.

The conversion has become a costly boondoggle for the diocese. The original rationale was to spend $50 million for the property, rather than build new on land they already owned in Costa Mesa; cost of a new build was estimated at $100 million.

Unfortunately, repairs and renovations have exceeded $100 million, not counting the $50-60 million to buy it from Crystal Cathedral Ministries. The building's maintenance had been neglected, plus the cost to convert the configuration to work with Catholic liturgy cost far more than estimated. The bishop was poorly advised by a committee loaded with Catholic developers and business magnates.

Each parish in the diocese was assigned a fund-raising quota to meet before any local parish building could occur, which froze building projects at the local parish level.

Even if they'd built new for $100 million, they would be $50 million or more ahead of where they are now.

The older Richard Neutra-designed sanctuary, currently used for Catholic masses, works fine for Catholic liturgy. They could have kept the Crystal Cathedral building for concerts, conferences, etc. and still be tens of millions ahead. But the hubris of the diocesan advisers meant they HAD to recycle a trophy building for worship use.

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Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: February 11, 2018 06:49PM

Yes, that's what I meant to write. Sorry.

I think they will get enough donations to make this cathedral outstanding in Southern California.

Looking at the plans on YouTube, there will also be an academy which will bring in $ and and an additional community center.
They seem to be using the 39 acres quite well.

Anyway, we'll probably drive up next year and see it.

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Posted by: PtLoma ( )
Date: February 11, 2018 07:18PM

Crystal Cathedral is a mile north of the former St Callistus parish, both on Lewis St. in Garden Grove. When the diocese assumed control of the campus, St Callistus began worshipping at Crystal Cathedral, in the Neutra sanctuary, and its parochial moved in as well.

Meanwhile, the diocese still owned the old St Callistus property, and leased it to what was left of the Crystal Cathedral congregation at below market rates. So St Callistus moved to Crystal Cathedral, and Crystal Cathedral moved to St Callistus.

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Posted by: xxMMMooo ( )
Date: February 11, 2018 10:01PM

Schuller's outfit was way more welcoming to people than the Catholic culture is or will be. He had one of those positive-thinking type churches without a lot of hierarchy or ritualism and much less historical baggage than the Roman Catholic church. Schuller was leaning towards the universalist direction to some extent. I don't see the transfer as having been a great thing.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: February 12, 2018 01:23PM

Not enough people to justify the $$$ for the volunteers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2018 01:24PM by messygoop.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: February 12, 2018 11:16AM

The only reaction the San Diego temple gets out of me is a raised middle finger as I pass by on my way to the airport (or home from a trip).

Visit that. :)

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: February 12, 2018 03:26PM

Why keep the store open when nobody is buying? Those visitor centers cost money to keep open. The church isn't growing even with it's massive missionary efforts. The whole mission thing is to keep the young men and women in the church. The church knows most those missionaries going out aren't going to bring long-term members into the church. They know they increase the probability of that young man coming home, marrying a member of the church and raising their children in the church. It's about retaining the membership, not growing it. Also they want the next generation to be money makers. This is why the church puts such emphasis on education and being productive. They want to keep you in and get your donations. That's the game. The whole worldwide church thing is an illusion. It's still a Utah church even more so with California Mormons moving back to Utah. They can point to growth in Africa and send the missionaries around the world to sell the members in Utah the illusion of growth.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: February 12, 2018 06:44PM

What's the point of a nevermo visiting a temple if you can't go inside? Sure, certain temples might have historical interest (i.e. SLC) or nice seasonal displays (SLC, Washington, D.C.) Perhaps some have especially nice landscaping. But if you can't go inside, nevermo interest is going to be extremely limited.

I've visited churches, basilicas, cathedrals, and Hindu or Buddhist temples all over North America and Europe. Sometimes I have visited while a service is taking place. NO ONE has ever said, you are not welcome to enter, you are not worthy to come in here, or any other such nonsense. Other religions normally open up even their most sacred spaces to visitors. The Vatican has priceless artworks by Michelangelo and they let people troop in and out every day.

Who wants to visit a visitor's center? People want more than that. They want to feel welcome and invited, not have the door closed on them.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 12, 2018 07:38PM

Here's Kathleen Madigan's bit on going through the SLC visitors' center, with some bonus material at the start...

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: February 13, 2018 01:17AM

A. Public Lack of interest, combined with B. LD$ INC Lack of funds, to the extent that enterprises like MORmON visitors centers which are (1) already constructed/in existence,(2) staffed by volunteers, can not justify their operation, IE paying the light bill to have no one show up to listen to LDS Inc's MORmON propaganda even as it is presented on the cheapest basis possible still is not worth it.

MORmONISM is dying right before your eyes !!!!!

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