Preface: I understand that we all come to the light of realization in our own time, own way and for many of us, we never, ever thought we'd reject TSCC. We mocked, scorned, and rejected those who apostasized. We were certain of our beliefs and could not have imagined the person we are today.

But, in all fairness, many of us confidently led our children into TSCC. We were certain this was The Right Way and they trusted us. They thought we knew best, and they wanted our approval.

Now what? Why should this same child/children believe us at all? We've let them down, led them down the primrose path only to say, 'Oops! I was wrong, it's all false, you can trust me to show you the way out!'

Why would a kid want to be jerked around like this? The parent is an embarrassment, frankly, causing all sorts of social scandal with their newly found 'truth' and refusal to attend church/tithe/fulfill callings/etc.

These kids have already been used and expected to 'love' their captors (parents). For example, while Mormons rage against the evil bishops, why are parents exempt? There would be no interviews if it weren't for a parent driving the kid to the interview, allowing the kid to walk in, and watching the door close. If there's any person who should be attacked, it's the PARENT.

Why should a BIC or kid of a convert have anything but mistrust and disdain for the parent who led them to the slaughter? Who cares that the parent claims to have found, 'the truth about the church'?! The same parent proudly and oppressively claimed to know the church was true, JS was a prophet, and made certain his/her family was all LDS, all the time.

We ask too much of these children, really.

Do you have children?

How do you answer this question to yourself?

Topper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you have children?
>
> How do you answer this question to yourself?

Yes, I do. I don't expect anything from them as they have been used by every adult while hearing it was, 'God's Great Plan For Happiness' and whatnot.

They were promised we'd live together in eternity and they felt secure and happy because of that promise.

Etc., etc.

I read/hear lots of exiting or ex-Mo's so very sure they can lead their child out of the SAME CHURCH they turned their kid over to be brainwashed and f-ed in the head.

I hear ex-Mo's strategizing, saying if they just do this, or don't do that, or a little shift this way, or just say they aren't sure, or keep attending church but drop the calling, or 'BE HONEST', or don't make huge waves, or read the Bible to the kid instead, or get a divorce, or let the kids know it's not true, or, or, or...

As if kids don't look at the ex-Mo parent as the most unreliable, unstable, embarrassment and generally poor excuse of a person ever. It makes the Mormon parent look credible because they are STABLE.

I stand by my OP. We ask too much of these kids. Now they are caught up in this bishop interview bullshit when it's the parents all along who put them up to it. Bishop has ZERO power without complicit parents. So, kids should rise up against the parents, not bishops.

I'm glad I got out before I had kids. So I don't have to directly deal with that myself.

However, if I *did* have to deal with it, I'd probably approach it like this:

"Kids, I screwed up. But the important part of this is that I figured out that I screwed up, I owned up to it, and I tried to make amends for it. I got new information that showed what I was raised believing was false. I could have just tossed that information, and stayed a course I knew was false, and there would have been no drama. Except that would be dishonest -- both to myself and to you. So even though I knew it was going to be really hard, and cause lots of problems, and bring on chaos and second-guessing and family drama, I acted on it. I acted in honesty, and integrity, and with a sincere wish to do what was best for all of us. For you, for me, for everyone. I think it's a really valuable lesson to learn -- that living a genuine, honest life is worth it, even if it's hard. I hope you can appreciate that."

Yep. This^^^^

+1
Owning up to your mistakes and apologizing is a good example to your kids. My holier-than-thou TBM father thinks the opposite, and it pissed me off growing up. The directors and VPs at work pull that same shit.

chipace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The directors and VPs at work pull
> that same shit.

Just last week, I had a conference call with our company's board in NYC. During it, I let them know that I had been wrong about something (a plan for something I had made a few months before), that my plan wasn't going to work, and that based on new information I was coming up with one that would.

You could have cut the stunned silence with a knife.
Finally the chairman said something about nobody ever owning up to being wrong, and how "refreshing" that was. They gave me the go-ahead for the new plan, and increased the budget.

Honesty really does work. People shouldn't be so afraid of it :)

carameldreams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We ask too much of these children, really.


I'm banking on love conquers all despotism. I might be wrong. It was a gamble to have kids in the church and be the only one who leaves it. Great post.

My relationship with my children improved dramatically as a result of my taking them out of the church. They were fairly little, but they already had concerns.

I admitted to them that I had been deceived and did not feel it was a safe place for them. They could stay if they wanted; I would support them. They were happy to leave, and ever since then they have trusted me more because I admitted, and continue to admit, that I can be wrong about all sorts of things.

Sometimes expressing doubt, uncertainty, weakness, is the best way to generate trust and strengthen a relationship.

I mentally left when my oldest was 10 I told my children when she was 13. I explained that I didn't believe and that their mother did. I told them that they got to choose whether or not they wanted to go but that their mother would mostly insist. The result has been fine. They mostly go with bouts of not wanting to attend church and so they stay home. As they have gotten older they have stopped altogether. However, the primary result of my telling my children that I was no longer Mormon because I no longer believed is that they come to me with their troubles. They no longer are surrounded by a support group that frowns on mistakes. They are no longer forced to admit mistakes. They are no longer embarrassed by their support group for making mistakes.

And most importantly they are no longer under the impression that normal life is a mistake that must be controlled.

My home became the home that all the kids come to. It became a place of support and love and not of forced obedience to an uninspired way of living. My kids are better for me being honest with them.

Both my ex and I were because of how we were treated by the leaders over him being gay. We did go to church up until they were 7 or so and then I went inactive and he was waiting to be released from being ex. sec. When the stupid primary presidency came by to tell our kids we were bad parents, my kids were both angry about it. We never let the presidency take our kids to church, which is what they said they were going to do.

We only went to church maybe 2 or 3 times after they were 7 years old. I did let them take seminary. My son said he knew the church was bullshit all along. We had a lot of discussions about it.

BUT my daughter went back to church. I found out that a guy she was dating (who had gotten another girl pregnant and the baby hadn't been born yet) told her that he wanted a wife who had a testimony, so my daughter went back to church. She was ANTI before that. The relationship didn't work out, but she is over the top TBM. There is SO MUCH she doesn't know like she talked to her dad about how she felt about the temple and things that went on in there. She thought it would be okay since he had been through. NOPE--not okay.

My parents--they did what they thought was right, although my dad wasn't very active mormon. He raised us to be free thinkers and almost all my siblings are out of the church. My daughter is the only grandchild who is mormon.

Everyone acts on their own best understanding and maturity. As parents learn and grow, the might realize that whatever seemed true when they were younger was actually flawed. Nothing wrong with that. Anyone who doesn't evolve is dead.

If you take the responsibility of getting out young, you will avoid that problem. People who tell themselves that the kids will be okay with church or at least it's wholesome, are lying to themselves. If you have children, you owe them the best you can give. Be true.

carameldreams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why should this same child/children
> believe us at all?

What is trust shattering about saying you just discovered you were wrong about something? Is trust predicated on always be 100% right?

olderelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> carameldreams Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why should this same child/children
> > believe us at all?
>
> What is trust shattering about saying you just
> discovered you were wrong about something? Is
> trust predicated on always be 100% right?

Mormonism says it's 100% right. And kids are taught as much.

Life, death, eternity, family, sex, purpose...these are not trivial matters.

It's not opinion, or hey, dad has taken up SoulCycle, mom enjoys her new found love of salsa dancing 1x/week.

We all understand what TSCC requires.

And sure, kids grow up and get kicked to the curb enough times by their own stupidity that they usually are humbled and realize, 'hey, this life thing isn't so easy!' and cut their parents some slack.

But the zealousness and surety I've observed (doesn't mean everyone is like this) in many exiting and ex-Mo's regarding getting their kids out is unbalanced.

Doesn't matter if one is married, or divorced, or has cool grans, or mafioso grans, was high up in church, or never liked it.

Our kids are not us. TSCC makes Family an idol and worships it in kind. Imho, some of the detoxing required when leaving church is to see family, including one's children, in a less fused and superstitious manner. Imagine a kids' perspective: parent brings them into the church (by birth or otherwise), morally and socially instructs the child and promises all sorts of fantastical things upon obedience. Life is peaceful, parents are stable, lots of wonderful social interactions, more promises of good things to come, everyone is on the same page.

Then, said parent announces he/she doesn't believe. It's all a lie. However they get there to finally realize they've been had.

It's destabilizing to a kid. Confusing. Very jolting. Haven't so many of us felt like we were free-falling? Vertigo? Trying to get our bearings as we came out of the dream and were totally freaked out? We likely felt lost for a little or long while, and experienced anger, grief, wanted to get revenge, then tons of sadness with the loss of our friends, family and our world as we knew it. We may bargain with ourselves, or Heavenly Father, to just get back to the good times, when things made sense.

I totally get the enthusiasm of an adult who has fully woke and now is on a mission (sorry) to get his precious kid(s) outta there! But many a kid is embarrassed by such a warrior parent. Many a kid just wants to blend in and keep the status quo as they are upside down with hormones and whatnot already. They don't want a parent having a crisis and making a big stink about it. They don't want a parent upsetting the family and making it awkward and upsetting all the time! It is beyond hard on them.

I still stand by my OP regarding making Bishops the fall guys. It's the parents fault. Full stop. And, a kid has every justifiable reason to be royally pissed off about that and go after his/her parents for throwing them to the wolves.

There's no interview without the parent who gave over their beloved child.

My youngest was in high school when I left. The other three were all temple married. They are still entrenched. I have no illusions that they will leave because I did. If they come to question it on their own, they know they can ask me anything.

They also know that I do not and will not participate in baby blessings, baptisms, mission farewells and temple pictures. But, I will always be there for the celebrations and luncheons etc.

Why should children of mo's trust them?

I lost my children's respect when they found out Santa Claus wasn't real. They never believed a thing I said after that...

Uh because we are beautiful, amazing, and brave-

And they are, too.

Paintingnotloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uh because we are beautiful, amazing, and brave-
>
> And they are, too.

Yes!!!

:)

"Lead Me Not Into Temptation. I Can Find The Way Myself." (I can't remember the artist's/ author's name)

If you can lead them into temptation, you sure as hell ought to be able to lead them out [of that hell, which is TMC (the Mormon church), of which you speak].

If MY PARENTS said, "This 'church' is not "true"", or "It's (all) BS , We're Getting Out-NOW!", or something... while 'members'/ UNDER THE INFLUENCE (of the BS MC)/ Satin, to us as kids. we-I would GLADLY follow-listen. At least - and at last - there (may) would be light [again]!

Especially if they KNEW something. Mormons DON'T 'KNOW' ANYTHING. They only want to, hope to, try to / (have faith/ believe).

Save your kids from any and all false teachings… even (from) [with]in your head.

M@t

What a stagnant and boring way of existing if we could not change.

Kids are bright and they understand this. They are alot brighter than tons of people give them credit for.

Just look at what the kids in Florida are stepping up to the mic and saying to the President (which he does not deserve to be in MHO) of these United States. I only wish Donald had the fortitude to listen to these mere kids, but the path of greed and adoration he has chosen for 70 years is not easily changed. They, mere kids, are showing all of us Americans that they know and believe CHANGE IS POSSIBLE and that they strongly believe in it.

Fairness and trust is something that even young bubbly kindergarten kids learn and begin to understand.....at least most of them. They learn that if they hit someone and then want to later be their friend, it is smart to say "sorry" and mean it and not turn around and hit that person again. Kindergarten kids learn quickly that change is possible and wise.

I have children of my own....quite a few. I was married in the temple because that is what I became indoctrinated to believe would bring me the happiness in family life that I so wanted and had not had much of growing up.

Mormonism grew into a nightmare of lies and cover-ups and filled me with emotional abuse just like I had experienced growing up. Fortunately, I was learning the opposite of lies and cover-ups studying at a university. Here I learned the superiority of critical thinking over the MormonCult's magical thinking.

And, that has made all the difference, as the poem says. I was able to see and be part of a world where TRUTH MATTERS. I had found trust.

Casting off the chains, and they are tenacious difficult to break cult chains, of all that mind control of Mormonism takes time. I have shared this with my children....have explained why I changed my mind and the freedom and utter joy this has brought into my life.

What each of my so wonderfully unique children does with this information is up to them. Right now, some are not Mormons and some are. All I know and can share from the bottom of my heart with them is that change is what makes me trust in the goodness of life....to be able to search and discover what is real and worthwhile and not be told by some authority figure what they declare reality is, makes freedom possible. It also makes reaching your own dreams possible.

No matter what path each of my children ends up on, I feel content and very, very grateful that I have been able to both share with them and try to be an example of what critical thinking is. I am very appreciative of discovering this concept. To seek, to ask questions, to gather evidence, and come to a conclusion that might change when the evidence points that it needs to, this is what I sincerely and desperately want for each and everyone of my children.

And, for everyone.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2018 06:30PM by presleynfactsrock.

Hey, this worked for me and my kids!

I was honest with them, the moment I learned the Truth, and I have apologized (probably to excess) many times over for being a duped, brainwashed, BIC parent.

The OP doesn't give children enough credit! Innocent children have a clearer mind than a brainwashed adult. This is why the Mormon cult starts brainwashing little Primary kids at a very young age--with the chants, songs, stories, lessons, and making them bear their testimonies, pay tithing, pray in public, take the sacrament, be baptized--even before they can understand anything.

Innocent children perceive body language and facial expressions, aside from whatever someone is saying. They pick up on "vibes" and interpret them as negative or positive, by their gut reaction to them. Children still think their feelings are valid, and are not yet taught by Mormons that they should feel the opposite. Good is good and bad is bad.

At a variety of ages, from 7 to 13, every one of my children had doubts about Mormonism. The oldest ones thought it was a cult, and they never believe the JS story in the first place. The youngest was preparing to be baptized just because her cousins were, too, but the Primary lessons frightened her, and she didn't like being told she had "sins" that needed to be washed away. Whenever she went to baptisms, and saw men dunking kids in water, and everyone being solemn and weird, she said she didn't want that to be done to her. My children did not like hearing that I was inferior, because I was divorced, single, and working outside the home. They resent being told that our family was NOT a real "Forever Family" and that each of us would be alone in the Hereafter. All of them came to me, at one time or another, complaining that their Grandpa, their school teachers, Mother Theresa, and others were even more righteous than most of our Mormon neighbors--yet these wonderful people would not get into the highest heaven.

Unbrainwashed children seem to have an innate sense of justice. They are more in touch with their feelings.

Caramel Dreams--please ASK your children how they feel in church meetings, and/or how they feel about what they are being taught in Primary in general, and/or how they feel about the Joseph Smith story (both the old one with the Golden Plates or the new one with the rock in the hat.)

Then--LISTEN! Just listen to what your children have to say.

I finally sat my children down, at the kitchen table, and asked them WHY they didn't like church. What they told me was MIND-BOGGLING, as they told me of instances of physical abuse from the adult leaders! I guess our exit was easy...I started to cry--we were all crying--and said, "You don't ever have to go to that church again." All our doubts and what we had learned from our non- and ex-Mormon friends fell into place. We resigned together.

The outcome?

This is the truth, and I'm not just bragging. My children and I felt closer as a family. They had respect for me, for following the Truth. They understood brainwashing, because they had been lied to and manipulated, just as I had been. They accepted my apologies. We love each other very much. My children have wonderful friends who are not Mormon. They married non-Mormons, except for one. They adjusted to their mostly-mormon schools, got good grades, were active on sports teams, dance groups, music, family skiing and mountain sports, after-school jobs, etc. All are honest and moral, have great careers, houses not far from me, and children of their own. They are very happy and normal.

Love your children. Listen to them. Give them credit. Be honest. Apologize.

Don't give up on them. It is your duty as a parent to present Truth and reality to your children.

carameldreams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why should a BIC or kid of a convert have anything
> but mistrust and disdain for the parent who led
> them to the slaughter?

Because we're the ones who saved them from the slaughter.
We're the ones who said, "I cannot in good conscience stand by and allow my children to be brainwashed to sing the praises of a GD child rapist!"
We're the ones who called BS when we realized we were born into an abusive Hero Worship CULT of Joseph's Myth!
We saved them from what we endured.
We gave them freedom to self actualize instead of following the lame Mormon prescription for happiness that leads UT to be #1. in Prozac Subscriptions, Porn Addictions and Plastic Surgery.
Awesome results.
I have 4 adult children.
We left the church when it became apparent our children were being subjected to bullshit lies and coverups of sexual abuse that forced them to remain silent, otherwise they'd face discipline. They are all grateful to me for getting them out. So they could go self actualize without the restrictive nonsensical rules of Mormonism.
My oldest who was 14 when we left, is now a successful comedian screen writer in LA.
My 2nd is married and living in Thailand with his wife where they both teach.
My 3rd is following his own path to success, that doesn't involve Mormonism, but he's a Dad and a good guy.
My 4th is in the military and doing everything she can to double our chances of survival.

They're all good law abiding adults who make good citizens and have not gotten anybody pregnant, unless they were married at the time.

I trust them implicitly, to do the right thing.
They give me hope for the future of humanity.
But you're right, they shouldn't trust us.
Hopefully we raise them well enough to do the math on their own and draw their own conclusions.

"Why should a BIC or kid of a convert have anything but mistrust and disdain for the parent who led them to the slaughter? Who cares that the parent claims to have found, 'the truth about the church'?! The same parent proudly and oppressively claimed to know the church was true, JS was a prophet, and made certain his/her family was all LDS, all the time."

It works both ways. I'm the ex-mo, parents stayed TBM until death. I have nothing but disdain for them as they relate to mormonism. They led me to the slaughter, but I pushed my way out before I was hit in the head with the metal spike.

Asking your kids to really think something out, to reconsider all information, to search beyond the obvious, is not asking too much. What is wrong with challenging your children to rise to a higher level of sleuthing?

At some point shouldn't they learn that implicitly trusting even a parent is not the way to go. Why should it be assumed that the parent is automatically correct just because they are the parent. Parents being at odd with other parents is the tip off right there that something is off with that scenario. At some point you have to learn to think for yourself and trust yourself as you exercise your own reason. At some point it is a good life lesson to find out that you don't have "the one true parent."

And your children should be made to understand that the phrase, "Oops I was wrong." is a glorious phrase and is in fact the hallmark of learning and exploration. And it's opposite, "I"m right, like for sure," is the hallmark of stagnation and the end of learning.

In science, finding out you were wrong is a cause for celebration because it means you are getting closer to fact. Why is that a bad approach for life?

I wonder if the "one true parent" isn't the one who teaches their kids to think for themselves and use critical thinking skills right from the get go? And perhaps the phrase, "Because I said so," should be seen as one of the ugliest sentences ever?