My wife and I were baptized in the Mormon church exactly one year ago, June 4.
Since then, I've had so many questions, and every other month, I feel like not attending the church anymore.

Yesterday I called my bishop, since we haven't been to church in two weeks, and told him I don't believe the BOM is true, etc.
He, again, said my children will be cursed if we leave, that I was going to regret it when the police would come knocking on my door telling me my son is in jail. He is just a one and a half year old baby!!! Another major reason why I feel the church is fake is that it says my brown skin (I'm Mexican) is a cursed God put on my ancestors.

I'm ready to leave. My wife says she supports my decision, but if it were up to her, she would stay a Mormon.
I left the Catholic Church because I felt it was too controlling, but man, I got into something worst.

Thanks for your comments.

I'm a nevermo, so I can't comment on what it's like to be a convert... but my husband was a convert and his ex wife and two kids are hardcore TBM. I've seen firsthand how the church was used to divide my husband from his kids. Yes, it is a controlling cult. I think your feelings are pretty normal and you're in the right place.

It takes a while to find out what they deliberately don't tell you up front.

Most of the things you are learning and questioning aren't found in the Book of Mormon. That is exactly why they have you read it as a first step. They've learned the hard way not to tell the full truth up front.

Congratulations on seeing the reality so quickly. Many of us lost decades of our lives to this fraudulent organization before we woke up.

And thank goodness you aren't going to lose your family over this. It's frustrating and you feel foolish, but you just reacted like millions of other people did when you joined. Now you are lucky enough to get out!

Good job!

Some bishops are understanding, personable and basically kind.

the majority seem to be dicks.

seems you got one of the majority

critical thinking type person. That church doesn't like for people to "think" about the history and doctrines too much. They just want you to blindly believe and give everything you have (i.e. money, time, talents, etc). Glad you are seeing the light (or in this case the darkness). The bishops response to you is normal. They use fear and intimidation of eternal punishment, to you and your family, as a way of manipuluting you - don't fall for it. I live in an area where there are a lot of poly's and latinos. For the life of me I cannot understand why any poly or latino would want to be in such a racist organization, given what the doctrine says about your heritage "dark", "cursed", "loathsome", etc. Glad you are a thinker. Wish my poly's friend were "thinker's" too, but they're not, they just buy it all hook, line, and sinker. Crazy.

meaning they tell you the things they think will be easy for you to swallow before they tell you about the crazy stuff. This may answer some of your questions -
http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm

And feel free to ask here. We have learned the crazy and will be happy to share :)

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing a Bishop would say "..your children will be cursed....and go to jail". If he actually said that, then he's a complete idiot.

Just sayin'...

Ron

What's up mate!


Now you know all things mormon are plain fishy!

Judging from the comments other bishops have made to other Mormons, what this bishop told me doesn't seem out of the ordinary. I'm just sharing my story to get advice, I'm not trying to convince anybody. thanks.

I wasn't even a convert (40 year member), and when I was leaving a few years ago I was told that me and my children "will suffer emotionally and spiritually" as a result. TSCC leaders say that kind of stuff all the time. What do you expect from an laymen clergy. Some of these idiots have no clue how to handle social situations. They just say and do what they've been indoctrinated into to say. Mormons take the "common" out of "common sense", and actually they take the "sense" out too when dealing with people who question.

I believe ya. These jerks have no training and the only way some of then know to deal, is thru fear and intimidation. Sorry I don't have any advice for you other than to get out of that organization ASAP and raise your kids in such a way they're never tempted to join.

is ensuring that your wife is on the same page. If she is still a believer, even if she says that she'll support your decision, the church will use it to try to force you back to church, and often if that fails is breaks up a marriage.

I had a few bishops in my time as a member.

some of them were good.... One in particular was very kind and helpful to me when I went through a bad patch (employment)

Some of them were totally up their own theological fundaments.

I'm sorry, but I DON'T have a hard time believing a Bishop would say "..your children will be cursed....and go to jail"

It sounds like maybe you should just take your family and quietly leave. Why call the bishop to discuss your feelings when you know you will only get a dose of his brainwashed perceptions and beliefs? Certainly you won't receive an objective point of view.

I bear my testimony to you that your children will be better off out of the mormon church. Your daughters will not be brainwashed that only marriage and babies are appropriate for them, even in the face of reality: that they will be working and had better be educated to do work they actually have a passion for.

Your sons will grow into an admirable manhood just the way mine did, because you will teach them and pay attention to them and love them! You as your kid's parent keep your kids pointed in the right direction. If your instruction has to fit within morg guidelines, it will be weakened, considering the reality of growing up today.

There are so many contradictions in the morg! Just one example: my son was in the ninth grade. We were sitting through "Priesthood Sunday" in which all the talks were about celebrating the priesthood (bleh). During the teen's talk, my son leaned over to me and told me that very Friday he had watched this guy sell marijuana to another during French class! And here he was a day later teaching us all about what a treasure the so-called priesthood was in his life!

Oh, and another: three years later my son and I are sitting on the back porch. He says to me: "How weird! Tonight I'm going to
"X's" wedding (complete with pregnant sophomore bride) and tomorrow night I'm going to my Junior Prom!" BTW, the groom a couple of months before had also been the teen speaker at that years priesthood Sunday! No kidding!


I have concluded that growing up in the mormon church is very bad for children and especially teens, and anybody who thinks otherwise is being foolish.

Your one-and-a-half-year-old baby is going to end up in jail?! Un-freaking-believable!

I'd get out too. Who needs to pass that kind of thinking onto a child?

The Bishop lied to you. He had no right saying what he did. The lies are just beginning. Run now has fast has you can.

Hey, I'm in the same situation. I think it was about the second week after I was baptised and in the men's group the teacher stands up and goes on about the "sin of homosexuality" and how the church has taken a stand against it. I knew then and there that there was something haywire and started digging deeper. I should have done than digging before the baptism though. Oh well, I'm now one of the 2/3 of the Mormons that are inactive and don't give a flying fuck about the church. As a mather of fact I can't believe how stupid I was to join in the first place. Because if you believe in the Mormon clap-trap, I think you are probably actively working on being stupid.

I am one of those people that it is hard to get me to laugh out loud, but I am giggling..."actively work at being stupid"...love it...been there done that...it is great to have my brain back (not collecting cobwebs anymore) and giggle too! ;)

While I was investigating, I was told by the dear people on this board that I needed to just run. I investigated for app. 3 or so mos. and committed twice and then backed out. I thought I'd never escape everything. They, or the few dozen or hundred I've met, seen, etc. are extremely confident people maybe not arrogant but very confident. They are aggressive, persuasive, coersive, etc. And, oh, the "gift of gab". I almost got in and then researched. I almost couldn't be left alone and I never joined. The people kept calling, coming by, running into them in places(maybe coincidence). Finally, I requested since a transfer with the missionaries came up that my phone # etc. would be removed. Obviously, it did. But 6 or so weeks later a gentleman kept coming by asking me to go to bishop's house the bishop "wanted to talk with me" This gentleman was offering me the sun and the moon, literally. Why, I never joined. Keep posting on this board and you will definitely get the support in which you need. I've received LOTS of great advice on this board. Good luck to you and don't let anyone get you or your family down.

You've probably learned more in one year than I did in my first 28 years of life, going to church every week, 4-years of seminary, 5-years of BYU, 2-years as a missionary, EFY, youth conferences, firesides, so many LDS books. Astounding!

I guess you just have to look at the humor in all of this. You'll "regret" it? You're son will be in jail? Does this not scream, "We're a f'ing cult!"

Maybe you should have told him you can envision him getting kicked in the crotch in the near future.

lulzies!

Kimball, I do believe as well as know that there are so many more resources out there to tell people as myself the things that need to be told. And to the response of mormons being stupid. If you note, there are lots of highly educated, smart people who are, were, almost were, etc. in the mormon faith. Myself, I'm not stupid, by no means but was almost in it hook, line, and sinker. These people know just how to talk to you. They are very smooth. Not only the missionaries, but, the bishop, members, priesthood, etc. are extemely smooth.

Telling you that your children will be cursed, that your son will end up in jail, is blatant emotional blackmail.

Don't let them get away with such underhanded tactics.

Those tactics represent just a drop in the bucket when it comes to emotional manipulation practiced by mormons and their leaders. Some of their tactics may be a lot more subtle, but nevertheless effective, in part because they are unrelenting.

You won't be able to escape psychological manipulation, threats (both covert and obvious), if you stay in the LDS Church. Well, maybe you could if you were famous like the Osmonds.

Start your exit from the church. Here are the name-removal instructions: http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm

Keep studying. There is a mountain of evidence the mormon church does not want you to see. Good luck in your journey to personal freedom!

Warning: some swearing below.

A friend, when apprised of the original poster's comments, wrote this (excerpted from longer comment):

"I'd like to thank the referenced Mormon clergyman for providing us such a nice, naked example of the crude, shameless emotional manipulation on which the entire trade relies."

"I mean, other sects pull this crap in their various guises, sure. But people are so used to it, it's like it almost gets a pass...."

"Ah, but count on the Mormons to make it fresh through sheer audacious nastiness. ..."

"So, again, thank you so much Mr. Standard Issue Vicious F**k of a Clergyman for being what you are so very shamelessly. There's almost an innocence to it, done like that, pal... So artless. So crass. So perfect, therefore. It's like the uber manipulation to which I'm sure all of your stripe must aspire. As close to the Platonic ideal, I'm sure, as we'll ever see in this grubby world of imperfection. Well done."

I remember when I was still Mormon, talking with friends about people who left the Church. It was always, "Can't you just feel the negative spirit around them? Their eyes are so dead now. You can just feel that the Spirit has left them. I don't like being around them."

It's so disgusting now when I think about it. We had ourselves completely convinced of this. It's the perfect example of how you can talk yourself into feeling something which isn't really there.

Then you leave Mormonism and you go, "Where's that negative spirit I was supposed to feel surrounding me now? I feel exactly the same, only better. Much better."

This Bishop is just buying into the whole "things will fall apart if you leave" scenario. Only in the LDS Gospel can you find safety, they believe. Like their children are perfect and never get into any trouble. Yeah, right.

Mormons can't admit that their one-size-fits-all 'gospel' isn't beneficial for EVERYONE...

It's like (the Mormon) God can ONLY deal with 1 type of individual (COMPLIANT, obsequious), one lifestyle (BLAND-BORING); the mormon god created lots of diversity into the race (africans, GBLT, eskimos, etc etc etc)... But can ONLY DEAL WITH white middle & upper class americans....


FGS, they have enough trouble with dealing with members outside the Moridor!

Sorry that they hooked you, pjtj.
Go SLOWLY, or GO FAST, but GO OUT of the mormon culture homogenizer.

How much more cursed can you be? I mean really why don't they try something more original?

You have NEVER been, NEVER Will NOR will you be cursed.

I wouldn't leave until you got to go to the temple so you can really see the extent of the madness...[see about Masonic Video, someone should have a link]. You gotta see the temple to believe just how weird it is.

Look Papi...if you stay your son will pay a hefty price.

For a boy/man Morgdom has perks

You are a man
Girls wanna get married to you
Leadership etc.

The debilitating effects though cannot be understated:
Inappropriate interviews with men who want to know about your little boys sex life
CONSTANT guilt trips
LOSS of passion for life because you cannot be better than the prophet.
For the brown and the black it is hell because of the psychological mental games which go something like this. We are all Gods children, but some are more equal than others.

Now I could go on, but honestly...the bottom line is this there is NO good that will come from this.

Had i known what you know in your first year...I would not be on this board.

I do not wish this on you, and not for your child.

As your for your wife...talk to her. Help her see how tough it is to navigate the world where you do deal with strange racist tendencies only to come to church and have the same continue.

A guy's gotta get a break!

Also the bishop has no rights whatsoever...file a restraining order!

Thank you for all of your comments! Question: Why is it that, although there's so much evidence against the church and its weird stuff, do I feel that there's nothing better for my family in terms of getting closer to Jesus Christ? Please note: I'm not planning to become an atheist. I was born a Christian (Roman Catholic) and I will die a Christian. Thanks!

If you are interested in remaining Christian, there are so many better alternatives. Feel free to go church shopping among the mainline Protestant churches -- the Lutherans, the Episcopalians, the Methodists, the Presbyterians, etc. Attend services for as long as you want until you find a church home. As long as you stick with the mainline congregations, there will be no pressure on you to join any particular group.

I was raised Catholic, so I know where you're coming from. Do try the Protestant churches. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Have you tried the Anglican Church? If you go to a High Anglican Cathedral, then you can get the lovely feeling of pageantry that you get with the Catholic Church, but without the controlling aspects of it. It's very similar.

I felt really comfortable in the Anglican Church. If I'd decided to stay Christian, I think I would have become Anglican.

Your bishop is a sick man to say such things. And I would do the same -- get out as soon as you can. It is all a total fraud, and the higher ups, at least for the most part, know it. Best to you.