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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 03:04PM

After watching some videos on Mormonleaks I could see the leaders of the church have a serious concern about retaining the young members. Amazingly 75% go inactive between high school graduation and age 20 if they don't serve a mission or get married in the temple. In fact so many go inactive in the year between high school graduation and age 19 that the church moved the age of serving a mission to 18.

If the church can't keep it's youth it's history and they know it. So you have the big push to try and indoctrinate the youth more. The Martin Cove Trek, making girls camp more spiritual, doing anything to make the youth feel they are needed. If they just can get a Mormon guy and a Mormon girl to marry each other in the temple then past that point they are more likely to stay in the church. So they have to retain the boys (missions) and they have to retain the girls(marry a return missionary). This old formula is problematic because the mormon single adults are putting off marriage due to the higher cost of living and college education.

So you can see in meetings the apostles are trying to figure things out and really don't know what to do. Apparently giving young people more responsibility retains them better so let's try that.

Also the church really does a lot of window dressing to make it's members believe it's a strong organization. The Conference Center was built to create the illusion every general conference that the church was huge do to the large size of the assembly hall. It makes an impact. Calling more foreigners to high office gives the illusion it's a world wide church when in reality it's core is a few western states in the US.

It's a lot of illusion and if they can't retain their late teen and twenty something members, it's over. They know it. They are desperately trying to do whatever they have to do to retain these people. The temple marriage model seems to be still working for them. That's the only card they have to play. In my own observation. I see more temple married couples divorcing and going inactive or just going inactive. We will see a bigger focus on member retention than getting more outside converts in the future. The reason why is the church is just trying to survive right now instead of grow.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 03:11PM

I completely reject your assertion, because you put an " ' " in the possessive word "its", and used to word "do" instead of "due", therefore ruining any shred of credibility you had regarding this subject.

----------- The Ghost of Hugh Nibley

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Posted by: cinda ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 08:55PM

Chicken N. Backpacks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I completely reject your assertion, because you
> put an " ' " in the possessive word "its", and
> used to word "do" instead of "due", therefore
> ruining any shred of credibility you had regarding
> this subject.
>
> ----------- The Ghost of Hugh
> Nibley


I'm with you, CNB :) Dismissing those glaring errors, I believe that Rubicon does make some valid points



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2018 09:05PM by cinda.

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Posted by: op47 ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 02:24PM

Your rejection is completely invalid because you used the word "to" where you should have used the word "the".

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 03:15PM

I think your analysis is spot on.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 03:24PM

Attrition is their biggest headache-Nightmare.

People, 'leaders' like Bednar aren't helping with (his) authoritarian/overbearing style.

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 03:27PM

Involving youth in 'ministry/ministering' is an open way to, as TSCC, 'involve more members...'

TSCC is at a loss (pun intended) and one method to stop the gaps is recruiting youth into ministry. Xian churches have been doing this for decades.

Give the youth more power then it won't look as scandalous when all the stuff hits the fan in the news.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 04:48PM

If they couldn't make their home teaching program work they aren't going to make their vague ministering concept work. In short they just got rid of home teaching. They have made one melkizedek priesthood quorum at the ward level. They have turned lessons into open discussions. They just are trying to make things more cozy feeling. They are trying new things because the old program wasn't working.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 03:31PM

I agree that the inner workings of the apostles' meetings are fascinating. Now I realize why so many church meetings fail. They try too hard to be spiritual. See members should be discussing current events and important matters. Such as the fear of glorification of pirates!

I actually think the church needs to expand their youth programs.

-Set 10 year olds as Elders! Get rid of the weak priesthood.
-Let 20 year olds serve as Bishops; 22 year old Stake Presidents
-Start missions at 16 and have them serve 4 years. They can have honorary LDS college degrees and have free Wi-Fi for Life!
-Ordain women as Queens, let them have equal say in all church matters
-Allow church members to vote on all changes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2018 03:32PM by messygoop.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 04:53PM

They will lower the age of temple marriage down to the age down to age 13. Get the youth married in the temple early and let them start making some babies and the church will grow. They don't need missions anymore. Nobody is joining the church anyways. Just cut to the chase and get the Mormon youth married.

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Posted by: numbersRus ( )
Date: April 08, 2018 05:03PM

I mean what other church calls 18-year-olds "Elders" and 12-year-olds "priests"?? Meanwhile Jesuit Catholic Priests are ordained priests only after a long period of education and service, like in their late-20s.

Seems like Mormons appeal to their egos to get these sort of lofty titles. Trouble is that after such things have been in place for a few generations the titles start to lose their luster as people grew up knowing you only had to be a 12-year-old with a pulse to be a "priest".

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Posted by: MRM ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 05:15PM

Many years ago it was fun to be a youth. Road shows, trips to amusement parks, sports, etc. Then the inspired leadership came up with the saying we are not here to entertain. The fun stuff ended and now the church is paying the price.

I am always glad when results meets policy.

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Posted by: alsd ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 11:30AM

MRM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many years ago it was fun to be a youth. Road
> shows, trips to amusement parks, sports, etc.
> Then the inspired leadership came up with the
> saying we are not here to entertain. The fun
> stuff ended and now the church is paying the
> price.
>
> I am always glad when results meets policy.

Very true! Even growing up on the east coast we had a lot of great activities. Temple trips were 3-4 day affairs as we had to go to Washington, DC. But we'd do more than just temple stuff on the temple trips. We'd visit the Smithsonian museums, have dances, and even got a White House tour. One year, instead of the buses, we actually flew to Washington and got even more time in DC. Every winter we'd have a stake youth winter carnival. There was the Gold and Green Ball. Instead of the traditional road shows like in Utah, we'd have a big stake "road show" event where we'd all meet in the Stake Center and each congregation would do a show. Those were fun times. Now all of it, every single one of those things, is gone. At best, the congregation where I grew up will have a ward youth temple day, where just the ward youth will make a day trip to the Boston temple. On top of everything else, I feel bad for the youth of the church today because all of the fun stuff is gone.

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 05:43PM

THE (MORmON) church is a marvelous (scam) work and a wonder. It is a marvelous wonder and a miracle, especially for those benefiting from it, that the stupid sham LD$ Inc criminal enterprise has gone on as long as it has.

The MORmON scam has more competition for tithing dollars, because taxes are higher, to the extent that sales tax is close to being tithing in its own right. 40 years ago that was NOT the case.


The MORmON scam has more competition from an entertainment standpoint. Professional sports versus listening to boring demanding old men, who is going to win that one ?

The MORmON church has more competition from a veracity stand point, More and More Science nullifies Joe SMith's MORmONIC claims.

The MORmON church has more competition from an exposure standpoint. They have to compete with the readily available internet information on the matter of what their message really is.

They MORmON church has more competition on a person level. There are MORmON teens who are thinking about cosmetic surgery or the latest cell phone much more than the ( NON EXISTENT) blessings that are supposed to come from paying tithing or going on a mission.

The racism that MORmONISM was founded on is less acceptable and more repulsive than ever.

My super @$$hole resident MORmON enforcement agent male parent had 5 sons go on missions. He might have that many grand sons that go ...... but probably not. That is not the kind of growth that LD$ inc was counting on.


The modern world is a place that is very unfriendly to corrupt scams based on blindsiding people and stealing from people based on LIES and pretense.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 08:48PM

The church should charge $100 per individual for the Second Anointing/Second Endowment. Did I say $100? I meant $1,000. Since it means instant salvation--and even God himself cannot put it asunder--people would jump at the chance, and they might stay active. It's worth a try, right?

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 08:56PM

Can we get group discounts?

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Posted by: numbersRus ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 12:14PM


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Posted by: unbelievable2 ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 08:52PM

Concur with posters. Any one wonder, where is the Holy Ghost in the mess? If He were present a lot of things would be different. My eyes were opened when I left. It was then I realized the Holy Ghost is not in the cult as they claim. The top 15 are moving deck chairs on the Titanic, just trying to figure out what to do next.

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Posted by: NevermoinIdaho ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 09:14PM

I have a coworker whose entire family is in Utah. She told me today she hasn't seen a single healthy marriage among anybody in her immediate or extended family. She more or less ran away - not far, mind you, but this is not exactly a Mormony bit of the state. She didn't want to marry somebody after knowing him for a few weeks after he got back from his mission desperate for sex. Her sister made a huge mistake doing that.

One more millenial down. She even votes for Democrats. Ha!

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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 09:26PM

They are so clueless. The way you retain the youth is to actually make church enjoyable. The fact is the church is a social club. Spirituality is really second. By taking away the fun, social parts and pushing fascist spirituality onto people is not going to make them more desirous of staying.

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Posted by: alsd ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 06:16AM

Ex-CultMember Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are so clueless. The way you retain the youth
> is to actually make church enjoyable. The fact is
> the church is a social club. Spirituality is
> really second. By taking away the fun, social
> parts and pushing fascist spirituality onto people
> is not going to make them more desirous of
> staying.

My two oldest, who are now in their 20s, both left the church (thankfully) because they called it "boring".

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Posted by: Honest TBM ( )
Date: April 05, 2018 11:49PM

Its a wondrous blessing in this peculiar gospel of ours how the young LDS couples who obey the commandment to not use birth control will quickly begin to have children. That way if either parent were to get tempted by some unthinkable possibility, i.e. having a Doubt form in their head, then the realities of life with bills, co-parenting, and everything else will quickly teach them humility to bear their trials/tribulations and realize that their peculiar life blessedly belongs to the glorious whims of the beloved middlemen that Heavenly Father puts in charge of their Wards/Stakes. If not for having these children at such a young age they might get tempted away from the glorious path that the wondrous Correlation program guides us down.

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Posted by: Pooped ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 12:43AM

I worked with a guy in a church owned company. I was the only Mormon working there and this guy told the story of how he joined the church so he could take his girl friend to the temple to marry him. Once the temple marriage ceremony was over he removed his garments and never went back to church, temple, or church activity. He never believed any of it and just went through the motions so he could get the girl of his dreams. It worked. He had a strong marriage but no faith in Mormonism.

Temple marriage does not always result in lifelong membership dues.

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Posted by: Justin ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 03:34AM

Of course they never imagine their youth might be interested in having a relationship with Christ instead of playing church ...

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Posted by: emmahailyes ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 01:28PM

I live in Midwest and haven't been in a chapel for 3 or 4 years but my disabled husband has a dedicated older home teacher who reports all the ward news. The ward's young couples and young adults are 80% Zion imports. There hasn't been a local baptism in years (except a few welfare seekers). Most of the imports just got out of college, have 3 kids, a first time job, and hate it here. The elders not only don't know how to do anything they don't want to do anything in the church. They are not your father's generation. They want to have the life of those around them and do the minimum to be Mormon.

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Posted by: Jane Cannary ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 01:42PM

Welfare seekers? Does TSCC even do that anymore? I had heard from relatives that it's almost imposssible to get help these days.

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Posted by: AlmostMoSusan ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 03:18PM

MRM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many years ago it was fun to be a youth. Road
> shows, trips to amusement parks, sports, etc.
> Then the inspired leadership came up with the
> saying we are not here to entertain. The fun
> stuff ended and now the church is paying the
> price.
>
> I am always glad when results meets policy.

This is exactly why I thought about becoming Mormon. My best friend was Mormon, and I spent a lot of time with her at various church activities. This was a blessing for me because my home life was not the best. I was feeling nostalgic for that time one day and googled "Road Show"; that is how I found this board!

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 05:32PM

I think that's how a lot of young people find churches. I joined a Girl Scout troop at a local ELCA Lutheran church. I was invited by my friends to their social events such as church suppers. I found a very warm, welcoming, family-oriented congregation. The minister used to drop in on our meetings and was the coolest guy. He did not actively recruit, but he answered any questions that I had and made it clear that I was more than welcome there. To this day I have a very good opinion of the ELCA Lutherans.

Another friend invited me to dances at her church. It was also a positive experience (no dress code, come as you are.) The Mormons are missing out on their best recruitment tool. Churches fulfil more than spiritual needs. They also fulfil social and community needs.

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Posted by: goldrose ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 08:13PM

Today a "friend" from BYU commented on a Daily Universe (ByU news) article. And I was able to confirm what I already know....The church loses many young members, but it still has plenty of young arrogant members, most likely future bishops, who will enjoy having power in this fake church



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2018 08:14PM by goldrose.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 08:39PM

I live in a ward that has a population of around 300. A good sacrament meeting is 65. By my calculation that is 21.6% and that is a good day.
Back to an old saying
"You can fool some of the people all of the time.
You can fool all of the people some of the time.
But you can not fool all the people all the time."

If you try to do so you WILL collapse!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: April 06, 2018 08:52PM

75% going inactive between high school and mission/marriage shows how badly the church's indoctrination fails. Give young adults a bit of freedom and they make a break for it.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 12:06AM

We used to have a wonderful older couple who were the janitors at our stake center where I grew up. They probably didn't make much. But they kept the building clean without needing to get the congregation to do it for free. Getting rid of the janitors for mormon church buildings was a big mistake. It shows just how broke and/or cheap the church really is.

When they got rid of roadshows, golden green balls, and other popular youth activities, that spelled the beginning of the end for the church. Real average people quit being involved. It's just a club for geeks and sociopaths now. If you look at the number of people who will ever be active in the church again all at the same time, that number is probably far below the 1975 to 1985 high mark and falling fast.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 01:02AM

It could be that a lot of people are experiencing a revelation, that the church is no longer justified in asking for the sacrifices being asked of the members, and when this possibility arises in some members' minds, they look around and see that leaving the church does NOT automatically result in bad things happening, which further emphasizes the church's lack of justification.

...if you get what I'm trying to say...

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Posted by: FormerHP ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 08:27AM

I get what you are saying...when I left the cult after 40 years, I spent the first year out of the cult waiting for lightening to strike me. In my head, I knew it was probably false, but in my psychocult-conditioned heart, I was fearful of the Mormon God unleashing his wrath upon me. Never happened - but instead I was "blessed beyond measure" (i.e. promotions, raises, health improved, all aspects of my life improved, etc).

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 01:10AM

After having hosted several "executive-level" parties for my now-ex, I ventured to offer my home for a ward party.

I think I contributed some of the snacks, but the attendees brought most of them.

I remember thinking afterward, "What a huge difference. No pall of smoke in my curtains, no drunks tossing their cookies in my bathroom. Hey, I kinda like these Mormons."

That was in my first ward, down South, where it was like an extended family. They were genuinely nice people. Then I moved into the shadow of the Zion Curtain, and it was a whole new ball game.

I left my old ward before the scourge of correlation. I have often wondered if I would still be in my old ward if I hadn't moved.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 04:21AM

I wonder if your old ward still exists.

I don't mean that literally--it probably does--but the atmosphere and dynamics you valued may be long gone. Decades of mismanagement have transformed a lot of the old Mormon communities.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: April 07, 2018 05:37AM

As long as i get to nail the last nail in the coffin i will be happy.

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