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Posted by: milona ( )
Date: April 14, 2018 05:07AM

I didn't want to advise on this thread. My condolences. I've been through it.
For awhile I said that I was struggling with believing in Jesus. I mentioned to my wife many times how untenable a tale godly atonements were becoming for me.

I just didn't get howcomes God (big G) needed to reproduce something with as big a head (godhead) as Himself in order to sacrifice it for Himself. God can forgive people so why was Jesus needed?

After a few years of disparaging The Savior I took aim at the big guy himself and I still am questioning with my wife the whole concept of "God."

She was very concerned when I brought up Jesus and needed me to confirm that I "still believe in God."

She is still with me. I honestly think it might have more to do with our relationship than anything else. Mormons are baffled as to why she would stay with me. And it gets worse if they know I'm not a Jesus believer. They seriously think my wife is going through life with one of the biggest challenges their gods could devise - shackled to an unbelieving spouse with their eternity up in the air.

I hope this insight shows someone that it is dealing with their beliefs crumbling in front of their spouses that it might not mean divorce but I will tell you I was wondering.

My problem was as I was changing from a somewhat believing Mormon into an apostate and then a dreaded atheistically inclined agnost I also was losing my "give a crap" sensitivities. I've lived over half of my life. That is a wakeup call. When it comes to choosing which delusions to support, this religious beliefs one seems to me to be the most absurd and difficult to support. I think sometimes cognitive dissonance is preferable to cognitive deceptions if you are trying to support a partner in their beliefs. I would prefer to compartmentalize my conflicting beliefs than attempt to try to believe something for the sake of another which I find absurd, potentially harmful to myself and completely unappealing to me.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: April 14, 2018 08:12AM

My own Christianity--after being raised essentially an atheist with Jack Mormon parents--took a fatal hit studying Egyptology where I was exposed to the Osiris Resurrection story and the notion of "eating the blood and flesh of a god," also present in the complex and convoluted Egyptian religion that existed and evolved for thousands of yeas...

I find a faith in a "benevolent consciousness/energy within the Universe" to my liking; I may be wrong, but it is comforting, and as an old "spiritual adviser" of mine (who was a bishop's son) once noted, "It is a useful energy."

Per another old professor: "Grace empowers the will to choose to do other than it had previously done."

/cue up Zen Master voice

First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is...

#sound of one hand clapping

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Posted by: deja vue ( )
Date: April 14, 2018 08:16AM

The further I get away from the whole religious thing, the more impossible and preposterous it becomes. From denouncing Mormondum to Christiandum took me about two weeks. Both experiences were incredible freeing and uplifting.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: April 14, 2018 08:29AM

You're right. The whole godhead atonement thing makes no sense to me. It smacks of trying to combine a bunch of made up versions of old tales.

Many of us here can relate.

My husband waited for me to catch on by myself. It took me 10 years to study my way out. I was a reader and questioner.


There is a good chance your wife, at this point, would be incapable of reconsidering her entire world view. Many have too much invested to back out. They are emotionally and socially wired to dismiss any amount of nonsense if their needs are being met by the church.

There are many here married to a believer who doesn't believe. We see mixed outcomes.

Your wife is constantly being reminded that A words (apostate, agnostic, atheist) are the most horrible things that exist. Like you said her eternal God club status is in jeopardy. She must have a lot of conflict. Here is what she might be thinking:


-I can't financially leave

-He'll see the error of his ways

-I'll keep praying that his heart will be softened (or whatever dumb phrase they use)

-God will sort it out

-He'll see when we die and accept the truth

-I'll find a worthy person in the CK who will want me

-Maybe husband is right. I can't let myself go there mentally though.

-I am not as worthy or good as others. I have an unrighteous husband. (This is cruel but they get this message.)


Thanks for letting us know how you've decided to handle your situation.

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Posted by: Paintingnotloggedin ( )
Date: April 14, 2018 12:17PM

Interest curiosity humor accetan e chemistry a dancr courtesy caring embrace

The irony of any love for eternity starts today unloved
Any unloved animosity critical uncaring contemptuous insensitivity locked in eternity mocks a sense of *God is love*
Let alone 'eternal love one set of 2 at a time

Well if that's so show me where it is? Is it at hone? Is it even out there? Is it even here?

Be bitterness be disengaged be rage but man don't be my best friend venting on near me again -dude! Bubba GOD!

Seriously don't invest in irony of being hate bringing no fun no love no entertainment no humor no kisses no hugs no how ya doin and then call it love

I'd wait for love for a thousand years rather than live in the hate expressed here. Temple marriage barricade temple marriage deluged in hate. GOD love me it's gotta be better than a dream on a page.

Be there any winners , the real love starts today. /Its a verb/ not a religious word -be the verb Be Love. Not an empty "beloved"

That all said something about me or my spouse tweeking our temple m my old abandonment danger horror story narrator theme. Ne,t time I want to be shook up _ watch a horror movie! Not sit philosophizing about IF there was a speculative eternity I would be better off without thee -- or of eternity exists I would shelf define with out thee / twist the knife already! Horror story @ _____s house.

Why bring the horror story narrator home to your house today? I have a narrative where I see this story where I see hugs and loves and compliments and logics and learn ings and , what was that, ooo ever it, it what's that h today?!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 14, 2018 02:47PM

The Bell Shaped Curve offers all the information I need to cope with the how and why of both expected and unexpected events.

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Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: April 14, 2018 03:40PM

You might want to look at Jordan Peterson’s bible series. He approaches the Bible stories from a perspective of evolutionary psychology. Christ, God, the devil are all inside us. They’re aspects of our mental makeup that evolved with our species.

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Posted by: Paintingnotloggedin ( )
Date: April 14, 2018 08:43PM

Great idea! Expand the ideas (in the "box" ) to be incorporated by the inhabitants gradually politely positively
With a learning activity , and the container of ideas expanded without being expounded upon <sort of like a beautifulshelf partial built kit . Is only partially built with not allassembly required is done yet, being hit by a hammer pounding scars in it instead of adding more wood, expanding to assemble it)
Not swinging hammers in the sand box , expanding words, rebuilding the shelf plans instead.

Explore the metaphor
Expand the vocabulary
Starting at shared points in the Bible vocabulary

Great idea. That's a great idea.

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