Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: jan ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 10:46AM

"Faith and Foul Play in Salt Lake City" today on Bio Channel's City Confidential.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 11:15AM

That one's a pet peeve of mine even though Hofmann's high school yearbook got it wrong (my sister was in Markie's class). You'll get more hits with Google spelling it correctly...

Ugh... I'll watch the rest of it on the 3:00 p.m. rerun, but fair warning, I may not be kind. They already featured Glen Leonard, retired church historian and one of the three authors of the LDS Church sponsored bit of historical fiction, "Massacre at Mountain Meadows." That does not bode well...

Nor does the report about Salt Lake having a population of 700,000; I'm at an utter loss to explain that one since the population of the city is only 186,000, and Salt Lake County has 1.2 million inhabitants...

I'll take a nap and hit Costco for some extra bullchip filters to help with the fact checking...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2011 11:15AM by SL Cabbie.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: AIC ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 12:19PM

The murderer who chopped up his preggers wife and threw her in the dump?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: An_Engineer ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 01:26PM

Nope, that's Mark Hacking, with whom I went to Primary, Young Men's, Elementary, Jr High and High School with.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Laban's Head forgot her password ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 02:21PM

I lived a block away from the Hackings and taught Mark in Sunday School - so I probably taught you!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: An_Engineer ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 04:04PM

How cool - my first IRL connection from the board! If you're comfortable and interested, my e-mail is misterphish at hotmail dot com.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Laban's Head forgot her password ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 04:55PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: AIC ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 11:02PM

WOW!

See the Spirit is at work!

Who would have thunk it!


Gosh that was so easy....every time I have tried that it has been a disaster.

Well I am thrilled to have been an instrument in your reconnecting.

YAY!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ExMormonRon ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 11:16AM

Mark Hoffman's dead so we don't have to believe anything he said or did anymore.

Just sayin'...

Ron

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 11:19AM

I don't know where you got that one, assuming you were referring to Mark Hofmann, the Utah forger and pipe bomber who's still an inmate at the Utah state penetentiary...

Sheeshhh.....

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Anonymous User ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 11:20AM

Edited because I'm an idiot...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2011 11:23AM by Stumbling.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 11:23AM

Personally, as was obvious, the claim had me reaching for the cleaver...

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Milo ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 11:20AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 11:22AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: LongTimegone ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 11:30AM

Is Hofmann still cell companions with one of the Lafferty boys? Batsh*t-crazy beliefs validating batsh*t-crazier beliefs.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ExMormonRon ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 11:30AM

He's "dead" to me so I don't have to believe in him.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Rebeckah ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 12:18PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Misfit ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 11:31AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: LongTimegone ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 12:06PM

The Hofmann story is also on an episode of "Who The Bleep Did I Marry?" on the Discovery ID channel (aka Investigation Discovery).

It is told from the perspective of Hofmann's ex-wife Dorie Olds.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Uncle Ed ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 12:09PM

you can punch up a current prison photo of Mr. Hofmann at

http://corrections.utah.gov/services/offender_search.html

type in the last name

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 12:47PM

WHY ON EARTH would Anyone chose to look upon his countenance?

He's little more than a reminder of how FLAWED tscc is....

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: derrida ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 04:46PM

Which is awesome and makes him a useful figure, yes? I don't care what he looks like but I am glad that he embarrassed the church, continues to feed apostasy, and that the Tanners aced the church in NOT jumping on his forgeries.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 12:16PM

'Even The Elect shall be deceived...'

see? the people who were deceived...Are the ELECT!

just sayin'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2011 05:26PM by guynoirprivateeye.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: AIC ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 12:48PM

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Now that was the nail the coffin called for!

Bwwaaaaaa hahahahahahahahaha!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 07:12PM

Okay, first I need to get this rant off my chest early...

Right near the end, LDS Church Historian, Richard Turley--who is a lawyer and not a trained historian--essentially identified Mark Hofmann as "one of us," i.e. an "anti-Mormon."

Seriously... He even went so far as to claim a loss of faith attributable to Hofmann's actions was at the root of an individual's suicide...

Sorry, counselor, but you don't appear to know much more about psychology than you do history. Whose fault is it if the church isn't true? People commit suicide because the emotional pain becomes unbearable; are you suggesting a life of comfortable delusion is somehow worthwhile and viable? I almost wish that nonsense you put forth about "standing before the 'Bar of Justice' of God" was true; I'd use my "one phone call from Outer Darkness" just to call someone to get a description of how you squirmed when you couldn't hide from that one...

Anyway, the reason I could confirm the show was a mixture of old and new was because I've met many of the individuals featured. Two are close friends, and there was even a shot of a taxi cab that I would put circa 1998... Not mine, incidentally...

Kudos, BTW, to Maxine Hanks who was featured extensively and is a friend of Steve Benson. She gave a strong analysis of the forces operating that motivated church leaders to conceal the extent of their culpability in the forgery acquisitions. I don't buy any suggestions church overlords "conspired to produce the forgeries," but the evidence is abundantly clear they did conspire to help him "acquire" his finds, provided financial backing, and when their worst nightmares were realized, no less than Gordon B. Hinckley publicly lied about his relationship with the forger/bomber.

Brent Metcalf gets equally strong marks from me; he's presented at an Exmormon Conference, and I met him at the first ex-Mormon activity I attended around 2001 where I first heard of his relationship with Hofmann.

My guess from the apparent age of Brent and Maxine is those soundbites were taken somewhere around five to six years (anyone who knows either of them well, feel free to chime in; I'm only guessing).

There's less guessing involved with my good friend Joe Redburn, a local talk show host who also owns "The Trapp," now Salt Lake's oldest continuously operating gay bar... I remember Joe from the original A&E program (we talked about it when he rode in my cab a few days later), and he was decidedly younger; that one was probably from the mid-90's...

My other friend is former Salt Lake Tribune reporter, Mike Carter, who only appears in a photo from 1986 but an article he penned was also featured. Mike was convinced at first "the police have the wrong guy," but he changed his mind in the face of the overwheming evidence.

I would also guess the sequences with Sandra Tanner--another I met an Exmormon Conference; this one was in 2002--were shot at around the same time as the Metcalf/Hanks sequences.

I believe the Turley/Leonard soundbites were added later, and what I found disturbing was their presence--to the best of my knowledge, neither was orginally involved in events--suggested the trend in the "Hofmann spin" is exactly what those of us in the know about LDS history realize has always been the pattern. Enough layers of whitewash are applied until even the blackest events are somehow rendered into LDS vanilla pudding. When they're even talked about at all...

Note above that RFM newcomer "AIC" had not even heard of this story... Suprise, surprise... And now another rant about the inclusion of extensive "handcart footage" from a past Pioneer Day Parade. That nonsense was pure propaganda; the human disaster--the largest in the entire Overland Migration--that overtook the Willie and Martin Handcart Companies in 1856 can be laid squarely on Brigham Young's "prophetic mantle."

Others I've met who were featured included booksellers Curt Bench (Benchmark Books) and Ken Sanders (Ken Sanders Rare Books). Both men provide noteworthy and valuable services to the ex-Mormon community with their businesses.

My overall grade: C+ with a note that cable offerings on the Hofmann episode are displaying a decided downward trend in the objectivity department and a horrible move in the direction of propaganda achieved via selective editing and cherry picking of evidence. High grades to the three I mentioned above, Hanks, Metcalf, and Tanner, who represented the Exmormon Community quite effectively...

Those interested in learning about the entire matter should read "The Mormon Murders" or "Salamander" for starters...

Final thoughts: Mark Hofmann's "business model" had much in common with local Ponzi and MLM schemes, with a predictable outcome...

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: think4u ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 09:56PM

The Mark Hofmann affair and murders, and all the surrounding incidents, should have been the absolute END of the mo church.

IMO, this ONE incident, in very recent and modern times, is stronger evidence than ANY other one thing that the church DOES absolutely use cult techniques to numb down the brains of their members.

Any idiot with a brain ( that was working- mind was certainly not at the time) should have been able to easily see through the entire fraud of the mo church, in all it's splendor, at that time.

And no one even looked. Myself included.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: I believed this once, years ago.. ( )
Date: June 07, 2011 10:51PM

Well the Hofmann affair certainly was a turning point in MY membership.

Had this scandal happened if the internet was up and running as it is today, it would have had the same effect as the Catholic abuse scandal in Boston - instant loss of credibility.

Instead I think we are seeing a thousand little leaks in the ship of Moroni, a slow sinking not one big crisis.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **     **  **     **  ********  ********   **    ** 
 **     **  **     **  **    **  **     **  ***   ** 
 **     **  **     **      **    **     **  ****  ** 
 **     **  *********     **     ********   ** ** ** 
  **   **   **     **    **      **         **  **** 
   ** **    **     **    **      **         **   *** 
    ***     **     **    **      **         **    **