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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: May 13, 2018 04:23PM

Does this mean when crap hits the fan we all believe in something? I believe in my dead friends when things get overwhelmingly difficult for example. Sounds crazy but i feel they are more reliable because they actually know what's going on. They see my therapy, they see all my surgeries. But anything beyond my friends i have no true confidence in.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 13, 2018 04:30PM

It's supposed to be the last word in an argument with any atheist. If the atheist wants to challenge the statement, the theist says something like, "Yeah, well, come back and talk to me after you've been in a foxhole, under fire!"

But the truth is that there have been any number of individuals who faced death and never called on a deity. ...their moms, maybe, but not a deity.

And there are plenty of last-seconds-before-tragedy radio transmissions that document that the most popular final expression is "Oh, shit!"

Unless 'shit' is a new deity...

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Posted by: sonofthelefthand ( )
Date: May 13, 2018 08:26PM

That's pretty much what all deities are. :)

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: May 13, 2018 05:11PM

And example proving the statement is false: Pat Tillman quit the NFL to to join the Army after 9/11. He was an atheist. He was killed in Afghanistan by friendly fire. Some suspect it was intentional, committed by fellow soldiers who didn't like his atheism. (Or maybe someone wasn't a Cardinals fan.)

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Posted by: Jane Cannary ( )
Date: May 13, 2018 05:15PM

My father spent many days in foxholes in WWII. He was an atheist. He may have invoked God's name but dollars to donuts it was followed by "dammit".

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: May 13, 2018 06:23PM

One of the main driving forces of the fall of religion in Europe was the two world wars, which were in may ways European civil wars with colonies included. The horrors of those wars led to many people deciding that God was nowhere to be found.

Americans have largely escaped these horrors. Many Americans have concluded that it's because we are under the protection of God, and so any trends toward non-belief are unpatriotic. That worked for many years. But times are changing.

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Posted by: mormon nomore ( )
Date: May 13, 2018 06:25PM

There are no living people in any actual fox hole. Foxes don't tolerate anyone but their own ilk. They tear them apart and then eat em up, regardless of social background.

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Posted by: nli ( )
Date: May 13, 2018 07:36PM

The Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers has adopted the catch-phrase "Atheists in Foxholes" to emphasize that the original statement is just an aphorism and not a fact.

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Posted by: mormon nomore ( )
Date: May 13, 2018 08:30PM

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: May 13, 2018 09:26PM

mormon nomore Wrote:

That is the most evil thing on this planet. A brainwashing center.

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Posted by: Whiskeytango ( )
Date: May 13, 2018 09:07PM

I actually became an atheist in Iraq. As did many other soldiers. After seeing the overall debacle that Islam was and how religion in general simply did not jive with reality. The world is simply too fucked up for their to be some wizard in the sky that controls everything.

Foxholes create Atheists.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2018 09:07PM by Whiskeytango.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: May 14, 2018 07:47AM

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Posted by: Visitors Welcome ( )
Date: May 14, 2018 03:27PM

For years I've been trying to find a good comeback to the old "no atheists in foxholes" hogwash. And there it is:

Whiskeytango Wrote:
> Foxholes create Atheists.

Thank you so much!

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: May 14, 2018 03:33PM

That is pretty good.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: May 14, 2018 03:43PM

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Posted by: Whiskeytango ( )
Date: May 15, 2018 02:25AM

Your welcome. Glad to be of service.

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: May 15, 2018 05:06PM

Years ago the Hinkster made that statement about no atheists in
foxholes in a talk to the American Legion. It got a lot of press

One of the replies was from a Vietnam vet who had been an atheist
in a foxhole. He recounted once when they were under friendly
fire that he had to take the phone from the communications
officer to call in that they were there and to stop shelling
the area.

The communications officer was too busy praying.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: May 15, 2018 06:14PM

The first time I heard this was soon after the Korean cease fire in 1953. I was 17 years old at the time.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: May 15, 2018 06:52PM

(swearing ahead...)

It's meant as a thinly-veiled insult:

That the atheist doesn't REALLY not believe in god ('cause, you know, everybody REALLY does), and if put in some kind of life-threatening situation, they'll stop lying about not believing in god, and start praying.

Which is, of course, complete bullshit.

It's also a way for them to feel "superior" (even though it's complete bullshit). With a sort of, "Oh, just wait until your life is threatened, you'll come around to my belief!"
No, I won't. I don't pray when things are going great, I don't pray when things are going shitty, I don't pray period. 'Cause I don't believe praying does any good (in fact, I can show that it doesn't), and I don't believe there's anybody to pray to.

But those that do it (and to be clear, it's not all believers) aren't concerned with facts, or being accurate or honest, or with trying to understand atheists. They only want to put them down with insults, and assert their faithful superiority. So they can be ignored anyway.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 10:32AM

It is also amazing how angry some believers become when they get even a whiff that somebody may not believe as they do.

My wife was set off once when I declined an invitation pray for our dinner. "If you don't thank the Lord for our blessings, how do you expect him to answer your prayers when you need his help?" Uh, I don't.

Another time was when I suggested that, even if...IF...God existed, I doubted whether he had either the time or the desire to answer the countless prayers for his help. If God truly were our father, I imagine him to be the type of father who would have greater respect for his children who managed to solve their own problems without constantly running to him for help.

That reminds me of a story my dad told of his strict German mother. (My dad was the oldest son among 13 kids; he had two older sisters.) In her later years, she admitted to my dad that he and the other older siblings were bastards/bitches because they dared to defy her, but she respected them for being both competent and secure in who they were. However, she had no respect for the younger siblings because they were emotionally dependent on her approval and so easy to manipulate.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2018 11:45AM by GregS.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 07:06PM

Great posts, you reassured me in some things that i think as well. Would god want a dependant child all the time praying constantly? Most likely not.

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Posted by: nomoremon ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 06:20PM

Some people actually become atheists in foxholes.

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