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Posted by: nomoremon ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 10:47AM

So the mormon story is essentially "mormons were persecuted" and "Smith was innocent".

The real story is that Joseph Smith attempted to murder the governor of Missouri. The Missouri government tried to extradite him, and try him in court. Smith escaped arrest. (with the help of his followers of course)

The municipal court of Nauvoo, acting outside of its authority, discharged Smith, and ruled not to extradite him to Missouri. Now, remember that Nauvoo was a town formed by mormons, and nearly all the people in Nauvoo were mormon. In other words, not only were the people in the town followers of Smith, so were the people in the court. So naturally they sided with Smith on everything. And also remember that Smith was the mayor of Nauvoo as well as the chief justice of the court that let him escape extradition. So basically, he used his own power to escape being tried for when he attempted murder.

Naturally, the people of the neighboring town, Carthage, thought that Smith was abusing his power. (because he was). So they requested that the Governor send in a militia to arrest Smith. The governor declined. So Smith wasn't arrested because of the governor.

So a paper was published by the Nauvoo Expositor. The only paper they ever published. The Nauvoo Expositor was a newspaper that was created by ex-mormons and other non mormons in Nauvoo. The paper reports the story and all the details of Smith's abuse of power. It was also critical of things like the doctrine of plural marriage and exaltation/becoming gods. Smith as mayor, along with his city council made up of his followers, ordered the newspaper to be destroyed.

This caused a huge uproar, because obviously, it was a huge attack on the freedom of speech and of the press.

Smith was charged with causing a riot. And naturally, the court controlled by Smith and his followers dismissed the charge.

Nearby cities began raising a militia to capture Smith.

The governor came and warned him that if he didn't surrender, the milita would be sent out.

Smith declared martial law. And sent out his own militia of Nauvoo, called the Nauvoo Legion, made up of his own followers, to protect himself from arrest, and the militias that would be sent out because of his refusal to comply.

The governor sent some people out and put an end to Smith's martial law. Smith managed to escape into Iowa. Somehow his followers convinced him to return.

He was then arrested for treason for declaring martial law.

As you can see, it is rather obvious that Smith was not wrongfully arrested. He was a criminal.

While awaiting trial in Carthage, he was killed by a mob. This part was wrongful, as they should have just let the justice system handle it, instead of taking it into their own hands, but Smith was nowhere near innocent. He would have been in prison for a very long time if not executed.

Because of Nauvoo's abuse of power,it was stripped of its charter.

A large part of this I got from Wikipedia along with other details I added. Here is the link. It's under the section on Nauvoo.

Wikipedia may not be the best source, but all the info I got from Wikipedia does have citations to other more reliable sources. So the info does ultimately come from good sources, and it is all true. You can check those sources if you want.

I know this is long, but it's important. And the details are all important. We should know the truth.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 11:21AM

The idiots who assasinated Smith made him a martyr. This made Smith’s image more powerful. If they would have let justice work the church might have just fell apart without a martyr’s image to rally behind. Smith would have been just another crooked politician.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 11:29AM


When you consider, though, that Smith had weaseled out of arrest/prosecution so many times previously, it's not hard to see why some of the non-mormon locals thought it might happen again. That doesn't justify their mob action, but it does make it easier to understand.

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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 12:20PM

Exactly...especially because the congregations regularly sing Praise to the Man

1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

2. Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "Brother Joseph" again.

Text: William W. Phelps, 1792-1872

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Posted by: nomoremon ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 12:28PM

I've hated that song, "praise to the man" for a very long time. And Mormons wonder why some people think they worship Joseph Smith.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 09:30PM

I was deeply shocked.

First, because they had usurped the music from "Scotland the Brave," which I had always loved. Even more, because of the blatantly sycophantic quasi-worship of Joseph Smith.

I remember my neverMo mother saying tartly, "To hear them [Mormons] talk, you'd think that Smith was God." I remember kind of cringing inside, because I knew that she was right. And this was well before I began seriously questioning on my own.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 17, 2018 05:13AM

Your mother was right.

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: May 19, 2018 07:58AM

nomoremon Wrote:
> I've hated that song, "praise to the man" for a
> very long time.

> And Mormons wonder why some people
> think they worship Joseph Smith.

No need to wonder!!!!

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Posted by: Mother Who Knows ( )
Date: May 19, 2018 12:58PM

The mob didn't really "assasinate" Smith, eithr It was a shoot-out. Joseph Smith had a gun, and killed one or two guards. (I don't remember all the details, because I'm trying to forget Mormonism altogether.)

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Posted by: nomoremon ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 11:52AM

I agree with both of you.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 12:11PM

This was the highlight (or lowlight, depending on your perspective) of my Nauvoo Vacation a few years ago. I pissed off my wife, and shocked the sister missionary who was approached us at the Carthage visitor center, when I corrected the missionary's spiel that JS had been martyred rather than murdered.

And more recently, during our latest argument about the church and Joseph Smith, my wife went on about how great and brave Joseph Smith was when he refused to renounce his faith to the very end; therefore, how could I expect her to renounce her faith merely to save our marriage.

(Quick aside: I never asked any such thing of her. In fact, it was her insisting that I convert.)

I pointed out that, if not for the idiots who murdered JS rather than letting justice take its course, there may not have been a Mormon church to convert her 35 yrs ago because JS would have been exposed for what he really was...a fraud. Then again, that may be be wishful thinking on my part.

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Posted by: nomoremon ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 12:25PM

I remember standing on the spot where Smith died when he was shot and jumped out of that window. I wished that he died much earlier on so the church didn't grow so much and instead went the way most cults do.

But I also wonder what would have happened differently. Smith wasn't the only person creating cults at the time. I heard that there were a lot of them at the time. Smith's was just the one that got lucky and made it big. Or maybe he was just more charismatic. Or maybe it was just the fact that he joined forces with Rigdon.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 17, 2018 05:17AM

Add he was the only one espousing he'd seen and spoke to God and son, Jesus Christ in the flesh. No other charlatan blasphemied themselves to the same degree as he was willing to do to gain a following.

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Posted by: Cabbie nli ( )
Date: May 16, 2018 12:58PM

By Emma and his inner circle. Samuel W. Taylor's out-of-print "Nightfall at Nauvoo" is an excellent account of what took place.

The Nauvoo Expositor was published by former Second Counselor William Law and his brother, Wilson.

Smith was armed and fired several shots at the mob that ultimately killed him.

Okay, I'm having a "weak moment" after Googling up the link to the Law interview. There's a FAIR--Frantic Attempt to Ignore Reality--link titled "What Caused William Law to Apostatize from the Church?"

Not worry, I'm running a tub, and I'll wash off any "Mormonite Infestation."

There's some historical truth in their miasma, but then we have,

>>William had economic quarrels with Joseph, and was probably too fond of his own financial state, rather than helping the poor of the Church. William and his brother Wilson had bought the higher land on the outskirts of Nauvoo; the Church (through Joseph) owned the land in the river bottom. Joseph declared that new arrivals should purchase lands from the Church (this was in part an effort to help liquidate the Church’s debts), but William objected to this plan as prejudicial to his own financial interests.

JS also likely attempted to draw Law's wife, Jane, into "spiritual marriage," and...

>>It is not clear whether Jane and William Law were ever sealed. Alexander Neibaur and Hyrum Smith both reported that Joseph told William he could not seal him to Jane because the Lord forbade it; Neibaur indicated that this was because William was “a Adulterous person.

>>In the clash that followed, William began “casting the first stone,” at Joseph’s supposed failings, and the man which he had once admired as honourable and without cause for complaint became, in his newspaper, a “demon,” a power-mad tyrant, a seducer, and someone who contributed to the early death of young women.

Okay, excuse me...

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Posted by: wheredoigonow ( )
Date: May 17, 2018 12:05AM

In 1844 plural marriage was not doctrine. It is claimed that JS received the revelation in 1843 but it was never put before the church and made doctrine. In fact into the 1850s plural marriage was still denied. In 1852 BY put it to the church andmit was accepted. That means that according to the D&C any plural marriages before 1852 were against church doctrine. Ergo all of JS plural marriages, both polygamy and polyandry, were illegal in OH,MO, IL, the US, and in the sight of God.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 17, 2018 05:23AM

What happened to Smith in Carthage was 'frontier justice' of the vigilante kind. True, had there been due process played out there may have been an entirely different future for Mormonism.

Smith was seen as such an existential threat to the rule of law, people bypassed that to restore peace and order.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2018 05:29AM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: May 17, 2018 10:20AM

Give Brother Joseph a break.

Although bullets combined with falling out of a second-story jail window probably gave him a few breaks...

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: May 19, 2018 08:02AM

What happened ? Joe had his best and only real revelation ever.

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Posted by: Bill ( )
Date: May 19, 2018 11:05AM

I have been to Nauvoo and Carthage many times over the years. In my opinion, yes the mob acted with frontier justice, which has proven to be a mistake because it gave Horny Joe Smith martyrdom status BUT I have tried to place myself w/in the minds of the good Americans in that mob. And by the way I congratulate each of them for the disposing of a truly evil diabolical menace to society at the time - even the deplorable Horny Joe Smith.

I believe these men, not only were angered by the unlawful behavior of Horny Joe relative to the misuse of power within Horny Joe's mayoralship, the city council, etc. BUT no doubt they had heard horror stories of Horney Joe enticing new converts to Nauvoo - the young women whom he and his leaders exploited, the teens, the children, the preversions. The moral outcry had to be tremendous in the "mobsters", and I hesitate to use that word because they were hero's in my perspective. Praise to these hero's. Wish I had been with them.

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Posted by: Bill ( )
Date: May 19, 2018 11:07AM

Oh by the way, when Horney Joe hightailed it across the river to Iowa, I believe it was Emma and Hyrum that went after the coward, and brought him back.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: May 19, 2018 11:36AM

JS is portrayed as a brave, innocent martyr.

Jesus is portrayed as a brave, innocent martyr.

It's what religions do.

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Posted by: mikemitchell ( )
Date: May 19, 2018 01:34PM

It just goes to show that if you screw over enough of your own followers and have sex with their wives, bad shit will happen to you in the end.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: May 19, 2018 01:58PM

Joe died of lead poisoning.

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