Perhaps this helps others but not me.

Excuses?

They mean well.
They're only trying to help.
They're just telling you what they sincerely believe.
They're worried about your eternal soul.
Etc.

What works much better for me is to remember that into every life some rain must fall. If it isn't mormons, it's some other irritant or travesty. No matter what befalls us we have to grow from it and soldier on and we are stronger that we think.

If robbers or window peepers hounded me in my home, I'd put a stop to them by prosecuting their bad behavior. I wouldn't stay angry once they were stopped from the evil way they act toward me.

It's the same with mormons. If they treat me badly, I don't put up with it. They must stop their bad behavior. Then I am able to move on and consider them as the rain that falls on everyone in life.

I have the luxury of not having children or a spouse who is a believing mormon. Perhaps those who do must simply agree to disagree. I guess that's what I'd do.

That's what I did in my career if someone had a seriously opposing view on a subject. If they had the right to make that determination, I'd write them off and go along if necessary and refuse to discuss the issue. If the situation allowed me to make the determination, I'd explain that and try to help them come to terms with it. Then I'd tell them there's no need to keep bringing it up because we could learn to live and let live.

This is how I've worked through these issues. Others likely have ways that work for them. If so, please share.

The Mormons that "meant well" were the robbers in my home.

No excuses are good enough for them or their ilk.

I felt some PTSD when the children were being snatched from their parents at the border in the news recently. It brought back painful memories of my experiences as a LDS and the separation wrought upon me by those who called me "sister."

Like the children and the parents at the border, the trauma and pain that separating children from parents does lasts a lifetime. There is no excuse or justification for it whatsoever, no matter how TSCC and other "do-gooders" try to spin it.

There will never be closure from that kind of a loss or trauma, not ever.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2018 02:38PM by Amyjo.

>>"If robbers or window peepers hounded me in my home, I'd put a stop to them by prosecuting their bad behavior. I wouldn't stay angry once they were stopped from the evil way they act toward me."

So you wouldn't be at all angry that they just move on to somebody else's home? You wouldn't be upset if they started robbing or peeping at children?

I get what you're saying but I can't just "live and let live" when TSCC is actively destroying lives and making money in the process. Just because their evil isn't being perpetrated on me anymore doesn't mean that it's all over and done -- I know that there are kids out there going through the same crap I was subjected to, and that's so not okay.

I'm fine with consenting adults having opposing views -- that's their right. But forcing kids into it, and forcing it onto desperate or vulnerable people will never be okay.

"But forcing kids into it, and forcing it onto desperate or vulnerable people will never be okay."


A particularly obnoxious characteristic of those behaviors is the unconscious motive: to reinforce the belief system of the perpetrators.


Well, that's what children and the vulnerable are for, no? /s

But then I'm not responsible for Chasing them down and arresting them any more than any good citizen would be.

Then the problem then becomes that there is no "police" for religion. There's no oversight to correct their bad behavior. If everyone who gets out of Mormonism just says "not my problem anymore" and ignores it, the situation will never improve. Don't you feel any responsibility to help others out of that bad situation??

oneinbillions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then the problem then becomes that there is no
> "police" for religion. There's no oversight to
> correct their bad behavior. If everyone who gets
> out of Mormonism just says "not my problem
> anymore" and ignores it, the situation will never
> improve. Don't you feel any responsibility to help
> others out of that bad situation??

As much as I want to say I don't feel responsibility, I actually do. But a lot of them think they have a great deal like my sisters do. I feel like I would be stomping on their fake parade and false fantasy or something. You have to be careful when trying to save the brainwashed, it's like pulling someone out of a matrix. It is almost better to leave them in to a certain extent. It would take a ton of work on their part to be normal which they are not willing to do.

The U.S. constitution's First Amendment gives all persons the right to practice their religions as they choose. By extension, that right also includes bringing up their offspring in that religion. Therefore, if you were to try to "save" others in Mormonism from its cult-like tactics and mentality, you should not expect to get government assistance for doing this. Unless religious leaders are violating some state law by the practice of their religion (polygamy, for example), there is really nothing the state can do to assist you in trying to free others from the religion. In fact, if anything, the state will side with the religious leaders since there is a First amendment guarantee of religious freedom.

It pains me that other children are going through the same thing I did. It's like a scary movie but real and just down the street. The thing I noticed is the end product is pretty much the same. The kid goes mentally ill or commits suicide or becomes a mindless robot for the rest of their lives. Every once in a while a miracle happens and the kid breaks off and is able to live a normal life.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps this helps others but not me.
>
> Excuses?
>
> They mean well.
> They're only trying to help.
> They're just telling you what they sincerely
> believe.
> They're worried about your eternal soul.
> Etc


You are so correct about their excuses, Cheryl.
Reminds me of a sign that I saw:

“HELP IS THE SUNNY SIDE OF CONTROL”

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> “HELP IS THE SUNNY SIDE OF CONTROL”

There is a ton of wisdom in that one

I'll have to remember that quote. It makes total sense with the Mormons. They show fake help to control you.

There’s no excuse for them. They believe things they have no business believing. So it’s not you, it’s them. However, people have a right to believe whatever they want, no matter how stupid.

My dad went through two divorces thanks to TSCC. You think that was fun for me? And being deceived and mindfucked to the point that my life wasn’t mine and I was just being used as a profit center. What if my shelf didn’t break? I’d have wasted my life as the walking dead. So yeah, I was fucking pissed. For many years. I won’t even get into the little Mormon brats who made my life a living hell.

You want to know how I got over it? Really over it except for the impersonal snarky stuff because it’s too much fun. I thanked God for all of the suffering I’ve been through. And I meant it. That unlocked something in me.

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There’s no excuse for them. They believe things
> they have no business believing. So it’s not
> you, it’s them. However, people have a right to
> believe whatever they want, no matter how stupid.
>
> My dad went through two divorces thanks to TSCC.
> You think that was fun for me? And being deceived
> and mindfucked to the point that my life wasn’t
> mine and I was just being used as a profit center.
> What if my shelf didn’t break? I’d have wasted
> my life as the walking dead. So yeah, I was
> fucking pissed. For many years. I won’t even get
> into the little Mormon brats who made my life a
> living hell.
>
> You want to know how I got over it? Really over it
> except for the impersonal snarky stuff because
> it’s too much fun. I thanked God for all of the
> suffering I’ve been through. And I meant it.
> That unlocked something in me.

Did you thank god for the suffering at first? Or did it come later? I am trying to see how you got to that point of thanking god for the suffering as if your suffering was part of God's design to save your ass from that operation. The suffering was enough to break me off but I have not gotten to the point of thanking god for it. Maybe I will as more time passes. I'm just trying to understand how you finally did it and were able to move on finally.

It came later. I think it would have helped me get through it easier. I had to discover this mind hack myself.

Fortunately, I don't associate with Mormons much anymore. The ones that do keep in contact, (usually on FB) are decent and respectful.

I think they have probably accepted that I'm not interested in their beliefs or concern for my "eternal soul."

What profiteth a man if his lame church sucks out his soul?

That's pretty good and accurate. I was soulless near the end of my activity in that operation.

Cheryl, to help you, love the people - just don't love the church. It's the church that is bad, not the people.

D@mn right I don't have to love them either. They only desire to mess with me so I don't need to be a part of their game at all. Even trying to love them. I don't even know what real love is thanks to them.

Great comeback!

Hooray for you, Cheryl!

I wish I knew you when I was a child being abused by my older brother.

"He can't control himself."
"He didn't mean to hurt you"
"It was an accident."
"Your brother really loves you!"
"You're complaining about your brother because you HATE him."
"Everyone feels sorry for your poor brother."
"He's acting out, because he's unhappy."
"There's nothing wrong with your brother."

Oh yeah, my big brother was NOT lovable. Neither was my temple ex-husband. Yet, I was forced to love them, and threatened with punishment if I did not love them. So, I had to pretend to love them. I was very confused about love, for most of my life.

I had to have a psychiatrist tell me that my brother and my ex-husband did NOT love me! That lifted a great weight off my heart. It was OK that I didn't love them. The abuse was not my fault.

My baby brother was similar to your older brother.

He could get away with murder. Whenever he and I got into a scrape I would take the heat from mom for that. So he could instigate away knowing that I'd take the rap.

My dad was my go-between. There again, whenever he and mom would get into an argument I became his daughter. She wouldn't refer to me as her daughter. Aargh! By the time they divorced I was in high school, and my kid brother stayed with our mom.

I went with dad. It was a no brainer. The very day my parents divorce was finalized the hotel mom and my brother were living in burnt to the ground. Mom collected 100% of the insurance proceeds. One day before she'd have had to split them with dad. Coincidence?

Dubious. My kid brother was a pyromaniac. Mom left him alone while she went across the way to do her grocery shopping. The fire started while she was gone. It's my strongest hunch that she left him in charge with a book of matches so he could literally play with fire in her absence. He took the bait and there went the hotel. The insurance company blamed it on the old furnace for want of a better explanation. Neither kid brother nor mummy was talking. Their lips were sealed.

The cat died in the fire. Thankfully he got out alive. Shaken up badly, but otherwise unharmed.

Mom used the insurance proceeds to start life anew 500 miles away to be closer to her mother in the heart of the Morridor.

If he started that fire, innocent people could have died. Bad enough if a pet died. I think I'd prosecute the case if it were my decision.

It was surprising to me there was no serious investigation done regarding that fire. Without evidence of an arson, and no eyewitness other than my brother ... he was there when he heard an explosion (supposedly as the story has been told,) then the fire started, and he ran to tell mom what had just transpired. The furnace was in the livingroom where we used to play and it doubled as a family room. I don't believe it was an arson either. But caused by sheer accident and a reckless child left alone to his own devices.

The hotel was burned to a char and cinders. Nothing was left after it was put out. The fire happened in April. It was spring then, so the furnace wouldn't have needed to be on - or if it was it was on a low heat.

I believe the furnace exploded. I don't believe it combusted spontaneously by itself. It had an accelerant wrought by matches and a careless twelve-year old. There was no one in the hotel except for him. On one side was the town park. On the other side of it was a vacant movie house that had been vacant for decades. I'm surprised it didn't burn down too! We lived in a small town on the border near Montana then. I'm surprised the town is still standing. (jkz)

The same brother did make it past adolescence and puberty. After he became an adult he has pulled some seriously sinister misdeeds while being a 'devout TBM.' I've learned he is not to be trusted over the space of many years. He may smile to your face, but plots and schemes behind your back.

exminion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great comeback!
>
> Hooray for you, Cheryl!
>
> I wish I knew you when I was a child being abused
> by my older brother.
>
> "He can't control himself."
> "He didn't mean to hurt you"
> "It was an accident."
> "Your brother really loves you!"
> "You're complaining about your brother because you
> HATE him."
> "Everyone feels sorry for your poor brother."
> "He's acting out, because he's unhappy."
> "There's nothing wrong with your brother."
>
> Oh yeah, my big brother was NOT lovable. Neither
> was my temple ex-husband. Yet, I was forced to
> love them, and threatened with punishment if I did
> not love them. So, I had to pretend to love them.
> I was very confused about love, for most of my
> life.
>
> I had to have a psychiatrist tell me that my
> brother and my ex-husband did NOT love me! That
> lifted a great weight off my heart. It was OK
> that I didn't love them. The abuse was not my
> fault.

My counselor today made me realize that my parents don't know what real love is even though they said "I love you" a million times, it was just vestigial words. I have never known real love in my entire life I think. No love in the home. I don't think Mormons know what real love is, they say the words yes but they have no backing or feeling behind them. It was always empty and hollow.

I'm so sorry that happened in your family, Amyjo.

Many fire-starter youth are placed in foster care, and the foster parents are almost never warned of that tendency.

Our friends had a 17-y/o foster son whom they returned to the agency that placed him with them. My husband continually tried to warn them that the kid was dangerous. Finally they admitted that they were frightened of him. After he left, our friends found several sites of small fires that he had set all over their 100-year-old home, and in the volunteer fire hall that he hung around next door.

And, that kid was a charmer.

If you ever consider foster care, ask lots of questions and demand lots of answers.

I will say that it totally scared the bejeepers out of him. If there is such a thing as a cure for pyromania, that may have been the clincher.

He was traumatized from the hotel burning to the ground.

But that doesn't stop them. I'm sure you know him best, but I'm still suspicious. Sorry.

He wouldn't have lasted this long outside of prison if he became one. His fetish with matches started in early childhood. He was someone who today would have been identified with ADHD. Back then it was a diagnosis not yet on the books.

He did outgrow that. Not some other devious ways I'm sorry to say.

Bro served eight years in military intelligence. Has earned his Masters degree in business going to night school while holding down a job, married with children. He's still BIC TBM and will be to the day he dies.

He's also the same brother who tried stealing my children when they were babies during a time he and his wife were infertile. My immediate family came to my defense then, and told him to back off. It was a serious betrayal of my trust. He's proven since then he cannot be taken at his word. But he is no arsonist. That much he outgrew. He was twelve when the fire happened. He never played with matches again.

He was someone who may have thrived in a Montessori setting as a youngster. He didn't get the attention he needed as a child because of our parents inability to provide a proper environment for us to grow. I feel he has remained TBM out of a great deal of insecurity to really question his beliefs, because the church provided him with an anchor like a surrogate parent he lacked at home.

Best thing to do? Call them out on their bullshit.

If other says something along the lines as"They are only trying to help," retort with how nosey and busy-body Mormons are.
Call them out on their shit and don't let them try to cover the wool over your eyes.