Sex is so messed with in modern cultures and human life as to be a subject of absurd proportions.

I was molested as a kid. What hurt wasn't what was physically done to me but what emotionally happened from my perspective.

I think our culture considers people who are not sexually conforming to some standard as somehow broken so when the people did what they did to me it was more who they were and what I meant to them then what it did to me sexually.

I was abused by people who used my admiration for them as a license to take my clothing off and use me as they saw fit.

I'm not a broken person. I don't have some kind of broken sexuality. I was hurt emotionally. I was in a society which doesn't deal with human sexuality well - the Mormonism of Utah County in the 1980s.

Many people suffering from childhood abuse have been hurt much more than me. Some of them do have lifelong adult issues as a result but this like most things in life isn't a black and white subject as much as organizations like Mormonism would like it to be. So please, if a victim of abuse hears you voice an opinion that all kids who were abused are messed up for life sexually know that you are just spouting in ignorance something you know nothing about. Now if you are an adult who has had their adult sexually adversely effected as a result of your abuse know that I can empathize with you. It is terrible and our society is as much to blame in my opinion as your abuser.

We love simplistic black and white and Mormonism feeds on this penchant we as a society have. Know this. Black and white thinking is literally codified in The Book of Mormon. Don't continue to perpetuate this kind of thinking. It don't matter if you are black or white. Our existence isn't so easily reduced regardless of how good it feels to reduce it. Pray about it if you must. The Book of Mormon has a narrative where God wanted people to find other people sexually unattractive because of the color of their skin and it tells you to ask in prayer if "these things" are true. You get a gooey feeling in your stomach? You are loving the Lehi reductionism of the 19th Century to place "opposition in all things" and reduce your world to a melodramatic "war in heaven" where things can be reduced to nice little boxes and people can be considered sexually tainted even though they were victims.

Sex is not the sin next to murder. People aren't reducible to things. We aren't always broken when we are bruised.

Thank you, Elder Berry.

Enlightening.

We do tend to put everything into little boxes.

Generalizations and stereotypes abound.

It is hard for many to comprehend what abuse/sexual abuse is about if they have not come across it or experienced it themselves or with someone close to them.

It is shocking to me to begin to comprehend how prevalent it has been in our society. We do tend to think that every experience is like our own and "everybody thinks" or "everybody knows" certain things when that is manifestly not true.

It's a shock and a tragedy to find out about widespread long term abuse in sporting and other organizations that we may have looked up to. It's coming out now about decades of abuse of all sorts in the RCMP here in Canada - our national icon. Heartbreaking to think of the misery suffered by those who had no voice at the time.

Of course, many suffer abuse by family, friends, teachers etc in their individual lives apart from sports, work, entertainment and other fields, we now know.

It has helped increase awareness that several Cdn hockey players have recently spoken out about sexual abuse by coaches when they were young players. We just didn't know. It's almost impossible to know what to say, or do. Or how to pay recompense, if even possible.

I appreciate you for explaining your experience and feelings. We are not ignorant out of lack of caring. Graceless though, undoubtedly, in some ways.

We just didn't know. It didn't happen to us. Or anyone we knew/know, that we are/were aware.

It helps us all to talk about it. Painful though, for sure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2018 02:02PM by Nightingale.

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It helps us all to talk about it. Painful though,
> for sure.

It does. I don't have many people to talk to about it. We are all so different but with honesty in looking at our individual human behaviors we tend towards hiding and hiving we can help each other. We don't want to be labeled a victim of abuse. We don't want to look like we have received inhumane treatment that wasn't human from our fellow bees. We let the queens rule in a stereotyped, simplified, hive of conformity and conditioning.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2018 02:53PM by Elder Berry.

Thanks. You're right there are so many additional levels that can be heaped onto something that you think really has not had that much affect on you until you get triggered. The "protect mormon children" movement has really been a trigger. I need to tell this story.

So a 13-year old girl is scared because her little sister wakes up in the middle of the night with blood-curdling screams and after daddy comes in and sends sister to get it bed with mommy, she tells daddy she's scared too. Daddy lays down with her to comfort her. She loves it because Daddy never touches her or shows her any affection otherwise. Daddy must think she was asleep when he touched her in a way that made her feel really really good. She realizes after that that she can touch herself in that same way and she loves it. It comforts her and helps her go to sleep at night. Daddy never needed to comfort her like that again. She never equated it with anything bad, bad things and sexual things were never talked about in their household. How would she know.

Then about 2 years later, Mommy buys her a book. Mommy wanted to talk to her about things but never knew how. Mormons to the rescue, the church put out a book. The book was titled "About Life and Love, the Facts of Life for LDS Teens." Yes, an LDS sex book written in 1969 by two LDS doctors. You can only imagine. I'm sure. The only actual info was a couple of diagrams of male and female genital insides and a paragraph describing the male laying face to face with the female and the two coming together. (Yes, I thought they just layed face to face until a timer went off or something that told them the sperm had been deposited). But I digress.

The main crux of the book was about how to stay pure and clean. There was a story of a girl, one of their patients, who had been an honor student, active in church, blah blah blah. And then all of the sudden one day she became withdrawn, lost a lot of weight, she got failing grades, she wouldn't talk to anyone. (Yes, I realize now the story was made up). Her mother took her to all kinds of doctors and they did all kinds of tests. They could find nothing. Then one of the doctors prayed and God told him the answer. Yup. She'd learned that something she'd been doing to make herself feel good was bad bad bad naughty naughty (gee, where would she learn that?) God wouldn't love people who did that. They were unclean. They couldn't go to the temple. They would never be allowed into God's presence.

So the holy priesthood man came to the rescue and asked her if maybe she was...ahem... "touching herself." She started weeping and admitted it. He told her about repentance and that she could confess and never do it again and God would forgive her. So she did and it never happened again and immediately she was back to being her normal self. Message: If you have discovered this vile practice, you can repent too.

Only problem, It wasn't as easy as it was for the lucky girl in the book. "What is wrong with me?" the now 15-year old asked herself. How come she could do it and I can't? So the girl works super hard in school and gets straight A's and attends church so that no one will ever suspect she has the same problem. But she is full of self-loathing because she knows she must confess but can't. She is so ashamed. She hates herself.

But can we let this young girl work it out and not be ashamed? She would go weeks, maybe a few months sometime without being sinful. Isn't that good enough? Of course not. When she's 16 she gets her patriarchal blessing. It has two whole paragraphs about staying pure. It tells her to guard her virtue with her VERY LIFE, because NOTHING is as important in her life as staying pure and clean before her heavenly father. It's because God knows and is telling her to repent. She adds the blessing to the book and reads them both regularly to remind herself how awful she is. But she just can't confess. Still in all this time, she never once thought that her daddy touching her was bad. SHE was bad because she liked it and because she did it herself. She'd have figured it out soon enough anyway, but she was sure no other girl in the church ever knew about that or did anything so sinful.

She had such a horrible self image at that point. Not only did she hate herself, but she got signals all the time from family mostly, telling her (in her mind) that she was the ugliest creature God ever created and she would probably never find a husband, let alone a worthy one to take her to the temple. Lucky for her, the ward weirdo family had a boy her age. He was weird and perverted and weird, but he wanted to date her. So they start dating. He's active in the church. Raging hormones made him seem not so bad.

But at 17 a new bishop had been put in. A good family friend and her father's business partner. She had to have an interview with him. It was uncomfortable enough having to be behind closed doors with him, but he starts asking all kinds of questions that horrified her. What could she do? It's the bishop, you have to answer him. He wanted to know exactly what she and boyfriend did, exactly how they touched, where they touched, how they kissed, whether she'd ever felt his groin getting bigger against her, whether any non-clothed skin had been touched and yes, whether she ever touched herself. Day of reckoning. But, nope. Couldn't do it. She lied.

After that, she didn't just feel like dirt, she was pond scum from a radioactive waste dump. She lied to the bishop. Whenever he saw the young women he always wanted to hug them. It made her cringe. She just wanted to go to college, get a good education and job and take care of her sorry self and give up on ever being worthy to go to the temple.

Fast forward--she goes to BYU, no self-esteem to think she could find a boy to date. So high school perv boyfriend comes home from mission and they marry. I mean, she was at least good enough for him. But even on her wedding day she was slightly ill knowing she really wasn't worthy to have entered the house of the Lord. But since it was so weird--back in the slit-your-throat days, it didn't seem like anything she wasn't good enough for. She would just have babies and raise them well and be a good wife and mother. By this time she realizes that what her dad did when she was 13 was so wrong, but it just never was an issue. It had never really affected her. And she'd finally done something to make Daddy happy--married in the temple. That's all she ever wanted--for Daddy to be proud of her.

She didn't realize that decisions she'd made that brought her to a really unhappy marriage, unhappy having given up her education, unhappy being poor as dirt had their roots in that molestation. Until she comes across a situation where she had every reason to believe perv hubby had inappropriately touched one of her daughters. Hubby denies but adds "she was sleeping, she wouldn't know it even if I had, which I didn't."

That was the beginning of a long long journey to change her life. Eventually she ends up jumping on the divorce train, going back to school and getting a degree, raising her kids while learning truths about the cult she'd been raised in--the one that made a not-so-ugly, very smart teenage girl want to die. Leaves the cult and eventually so do all the grown kids. She just wanted her daughters to have a better life and self-image than she did. Didn't want them to be affected by sexual abuse--whether inappropriate touching or inappropriate sex talk by someone in an authority position over them.

But she never really did have her head on straight. Issues from their effed-up family life were never really resolved. She went crazy trying to protect her granddaughters from inappropriate touching by the same pervert boy from her high school days who was now a grandfather. She felt so responsible for all her kids' problems--even in their adulthood. She's pretty much lost all communication with her children and grandchildren.

But as the Wynonna song goes, "when you hit rock bottom you've got two ways to go--straight up and sideways." She's not lingering in the bottom going sideways. She's trying to finally find the peace that has eluded her. She's finally found a really good counselor who can help her put it all in perspective. She has said goodbye to her abuser, even though he's not quite to the other side yet. If she can be happy where she is, she has nowhere to go but up. She has real friends, not assigned ones. She knows her granddaughters will be fine, whether she's in their lives or not. Maybe she'll get the chance someday. After she learns not to project herself and her abuse onto them.

Broken? Who isn't? It's not that any sexual abuse is benign, because it wasn't. But it's the added guilt and shame from a stupid stupid stupid cult that can break you. But what doesn't break you makes you stronger. At least it's working that way for my friend.

Thank you; I don't know whether the incidence is higher in the Mormon culture and its sordid, hidden history, but there are thousands who've proven recovery and healing are possible...

My own abuse wasn't sexual (that came from elsewhere), but working through all of this--much of it while participating on this site--has been some of the toughest stuff I've done. Shame "hides its own existence" from the consciousness, and it's best, IMO, to revisit it therapeutically at one's own pace.

SL Cabbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My own abuse wasn't sexual (that came from
> elsewhere), but working through all of this--much
> of it while participating on this site--has been
> some of the toughest stuff I've done.

Me too. I've not read about yours but would like to if you care to share.

You can drop me a line, sl_cabbie@yahoo.com...

Per the late John Bradshaw, the "key" is frozen shame, and I may be able to provide you with some "road maps" to release a lot of that. My own view is a therapist is absolutely necessary even though we "do the work" ourselves...

Line dropped. :)

Thank you for your story.I'm sorry you were abused by LDS people who dovn't have respect. LDS and all religions that force celibacy on anyone, especially encourages sexually deviant behaviors. My son was raped by a man in this Church. The Bishop had no words to help us. The man was run down two weeks later, and is dead. The ward is in very rural Republican Bible belt, the pasture at a local Church told me there are LDS people called the avenging Angels a still actively revenging gay behaviors by Church members. What is your understanding of this term please? A gang of lds
thugs? thanks!

Who me?

I think everything in life impacts each individual in a different way. Something the lds doesn't consider. It is one size fits all.

I don't know what I would have done without my therapist. He has literally given me back my life. He is different than any therapist I ever went to. My son says it is a paid friend, but it is a friend WHO LISTENS.

Everyone thinks you should just GET OVER IT. It isn't so simple.

I agree with your assessment. I am a strong believer in healing and recovery. I've seen it, and know it's possible.

Thank you.

I was molested. I have problems because of it as an adult. I agree, you can't just get over it. It is not possible. Nor it is acceptable to excuse the act as boys being boys, etc.

I've never said you can just get over it. I'm not broken. I was bruised and I healed. IT will always be a part of me. It isn't something I'm ashamed of any more. I didn't do it to me.

I am sorry you were molested and proud that you can talk about that. It was in no way your fault and you did not deserve that. I hope you can find a good therapist or friend to help you feel whole and healed and that you then can help others with similar trauma in their past. Thanks!

I have nothing but admiration for you Elder. As you know, many sex offenders were victims of abuse and they become abusers.

Fortunately, there are many more wonderful folks like you who did not repeat the abuse with the associated emotional hurt to others.

My concern with current societal mores is objectification of those most vulnerable for others’ sexual gratification.

Very best wishes my friend!

BYU Boner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As
> you know, many sex offenders were victims of abuse
> and they become abusers.

I know stats are stats but I've read consistently 30 percent themselves become abusers. I took comfort in that number. It is way to high but put me at closer to the average.

My wife was both molested and broken. We NEVER has any semblance of a normal sex life.

I'm sorry. Words fail when it comes to this kind of human frailty when people become monsters who never leave a psyche alone.

I suffered this type of abuse that started when I was 2. It was terrible physically and emotionally. I've had periods of time when I've had to deal with the aftermath off and on during my entire life. But, I refuse to let it define me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2018 08:03PM by Aquarius123.

You are a bright star.

Amen to that. I was also abused, but I don't consider myself "broken" or "damaged goods". I would not want to give my abuser that much power.

I can't say the abuse hasn't caused me problems or "issues", but I also can't say it ruined my life.

Thank you for writing about this. It's a good reminder to everyone.

Humans can rise above, recover, and thrive after suffering adversities. Your post is an example. It reminds me of the threads that assumed separating children from parents would permanently damage children for life. This happened to me and I survived and prospered. It isn't a kindness to tell someone they must be broken and forever miserable because outsiders want to make a point.

Scientific research shows that separation from one's parents at an early age dramatically increases the probability of lifetime problems of all sorts. Not everyone suffers long-term damage, but most do. That is particularly the case when the children are under three years of age at the time of the separation.

These facts have been well-known since the work of John Bowlby in the 1950s and 1960s. The findings have been replicated many, many times. That work, furthermore, antedates recent electoral developments and hence is not motivated by any political agenda today.

Cheryl, however, is convinced that she had an experience comparable to that of the Central American children; she is also convinced that she suffered no permanent damage therefrom. Asking us to accept those assertions without question, she then intimates that her anecdotal experience disproves the decades of data-based scientific research.

What is the import of this, you may ask? Cheryl informs us that "outsiders," ignoring the truth as demonstrated by her anecdote, are telling the children that "they must be broken and forever miserable" because those outsiders "want to make a point." What is the point they are trying to make, Cheryl?

What is the point you are trying to make? Avoid the innuendo and state it explicitly. Own it.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2018 05:31AM by Lot's Wife.

Twisting with the wind, telling me what I think, explaining what "experts" say, exaggerating and tweaking. Don't ask the point. Read and reread without the mind reading.

You suggest that I am misrepresenting the views of "experts." I would ask you which of the following denunciations of the separations policy I am misconstruing.


The American Medical Association:

https://wire.ama-assn.org/ama-news/doctors-oppose-policy-splits-kids-caregivers-border


The American Academy of Pediatrics:

https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/AAP-Statement-on-Executive-Order-on-Family-Separation.aspx


The American College of Physicians:

https://www.acponline.org/acp-newsroom/acp-objects-to-separation-of-children-from-their-parents-at-border


The New England Journal of Medicine:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1703375


The American Psychological Association:

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2018/06/family-separation-policy.aspx


You are welcome to disregard the "experts" if you so choose. You are free to describe them as "outsiders" who are trying to make some "point" beyond the effects of separation on children. But we are talking about little kids, the vast majority of whom are suffering very significant harm. Some of us take that seriously and will challenge you to back up your assertions.

What an idea!

Who you misrepresented was me.

I have no interest in the links.

I know you have no interest in the links. You have stated many times that studies, research, and expertise don't matter to you.

As you wrote, "There's no rule that forces us to believe that the thinking has been done based on links, studies, or what someone considers to be expert opinion." All opinions are equally valid regardless of reality.

The links may still be of use, however. Other posters lamented the materialization of a post-factual "reality" (remember that thread? It was largely inspired by your obscurantism.) and some of them will care about what the data say.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2018 01:18PM by Lot's Wife.

>>Not everyone suffers long-term damage

This is the point Cheryl was trying to make.

Cheryl made two points. The first is as you suggest: of those children who suffer separation from their parents, "not everyone suffers long term damage." That is true. It is only the vast majority of kids who suffer lifelong harm.

Her second point was that "those who tell someone they must be broken and forever miserable" are "outsiders [who] want to make a point." The context is “the threads that assumed separating children from parents would permanently damage children for life.” So, in her words, Cheryl thinks outsiders are overstating the danger of the child separations “to make a point.”

I would simply like to see the cards on the table. What “point” does Cheryl believe the “outsiders” are trying to achieve by exaggerating the danger to the separated children. Are those organizations trying to interrupt the administration’s immigration policy? Or is their goal something else?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cheryl made two points. The first is as you
> suggest: of those children who suffer separation
> from their parents, "not everyone suffers long
> term damage." That is true. It is only the vast
> majority of kids who suffer lifelong harm.
>
> Her second point was that "those who tell someone
> they must be broken and forever miserable" are
> "outsiders want to make a point." The context is
> “the threads that assumed separating children
> from parents would permanently damage children for
> life.” So, in her words, Cheryl thinks
> outsiders are overstating the danger of the child
> separations “to make a point.”
>
> I would simply like to see the cards on the table.
> What “point” does Cheryl believe the
> “outsiders” are trying to achieve by
> exaggerating the danger to the separated children.
> Are those organizations trying to interrupt the
> administration’s immigration policy? Or is
> their goal something else?

I just wanted to say that the Dawg and I are so glad you're here. Thank you for being you.

It must be terrifying to be one of the immigrant babies incarcerated in our current prisoner of immigration camps. The Church teaches us there are blessings that come with suffering and surrender. But those blessings are not a justification that one was not deeply wounded by the abuse. Everyone's sexual abuse is different, some people are truly destroyed by their abusers, we cannot measure our pain or our abuse. Someone who is still healing us not less than someone who quickly "Rose above". I admire those survivors who truly attend to their recovery from abuse. They should be proud, even if their healing takes longer than someone else's. Thanks!

My friend was molested by her 3rd grade teacher. She forgave him knowing that it must have been a heavy cross to bear so it must've been ever more scary for him to get the help he needed. She did come fwd to the police about it, though.

I'm sorry, but her third grade teacher was a pedophile. He was most likely attracted to teaching because of his sexual perversion for young children (that's how pedophiles find their way into scouting, priests in Catholicism, etc.) They do not rehabilitate.

Which is the rationale for Megan's Law, to alert the public when such convicted felons move into their neighborhood/s.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2018 08:05AM by Amyjo.

You're right about that.

Homeless studies have shown that teen homeless have a disproportionate number who were molested as children. They have mental health problems stemming from that. Addiction problems related directly to their upbringing. And the prostitutes and gigilos on the streets were most likely molested as children, studies have born out.

Elder Berry, your post is a good reminder that people respond to trauma in different ways.

A few years ago, I had a student who was just the sweetest, most delightful child. He was the sort of kid who could bring joy into just about anyone's day. He was a handsome little fellow as well.

I knew that he had been removed from his mother, and was living with some relatives. While the living situation with the relatives was not perfect, it seemed good enough. The relatives were attentive and caring.

Towards the end of the year, I sat in on a meeting about this child. The school's social worker was present. While she didn't share every sordid detail with me, I learned enough about the abuse and neglect this boy had suffered at the hands of his mom to be horrified. She had quite literally, and with deliberation, put his life in danger. At that point I developed a new level of respect for social workers, who must see so much darkness in society at first hand.

And you never would have known any of this by looking at this kid. He was just a cheerful, happy-go-lucky little boy. Hopefully he will continue to be just that. His family moved away to a better situation, so I have not been able to keep up with him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2018 09:25AM by summer.

Kids from the worst situations do not always suffer the heaviest damage. It depends on personality and how they are able to deal with their problems. Having a good support system is also helpful,

I warn parents and other adults to not predict terrible outcomes because that can exacerbate problems.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elder Berry, your post is a good reminder that
> people respond to trauma in different ways.
>
> A few years ago, I had a student who was just the
> sweetest, most delightful child. He was the sort
> of kid who could bring joy into just about
> anyone's day. He was a handsome little fellow as
> well.

I was that little boy. My sisters were nicer to me than my brothers. There were 3 girls and 3 boys in a row. One of my sisters was my idol and I suffered for it. And then when I went to scouts I was courted by the "master" without a clue I was being groomed.

Your post took me back but it also put a smile on my face. I was a curious little kid who told tales and loved to bring smiles to the faces surrounding me. Ah those childhood days.

I'm touched by those who have suffered long-standing hurt, and impressed by those who emerge from it at a later point in life.

Sexual abuse is but one form of harm that is inflicted upon children. There are others, and I hope I'm not unduly misdirecting this thread by mentioning intellectual, disciplinary (often physical), emotional, and religious abuse.

I just spent two weeks with my brother. We were brought up similarly, in an intact two-parent home in Christian Science. Yet for some reason, he feels, even in his 70s, to be still suffering from that religious environment, and never had a long-term intimate relationship or employment. I, for some reason, do not, feeling that it is a dead issue which no longer affects me.

Go figure. I can only theorize that different people have an emotional and psychological resiliency that others, unfortunately, do not, just as some have tougher immune systems than others. Luck of the gene pool, perhaps?

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Go figure. I can only theorize that different
> people have an emotional and psychological
> resiliency that others, unfortunately, do not,
> just as some have tougher immune systems than
> others. Luck of the gene pool, perhaps?

I think so about the gene pool. There are many studies about how genes are activated in youth from many forms of abuse.

About the immune system I think it is a poor comparison. Some of these genes when not activated by abuse make people into amazingly resilient adults ones who are motivated to protect their children.

People are built to survive. What is harder surviving are the effects of culture. Sex is a dirty unmentionable part of human existence is a terrible meme. It isn't a psyche pathogen but a ideological plague.

The issue is complex, and the first thing I always try to do is "make one of my big speeches" about the issues involving dichotomous thinking (i.e. "black and white").

You've identified the "nature versus nurture" argument we encountered as undergraduates; as I see it, we must look for solutions in the former, although the "psychiatric community" would probably disagree with me.

The literature on dysfunctional families all "dovetailed" in the 1990's (the late John Bradshaw was one of the luminaries in that field), and I was working in the field and considering a PhD "track"; that didn't happen (and I don't consider that unfortunate), and seriously, the politics in the mental health/addictions field terrify me.

I have "done my own work," seriously (including issues growing up on the "fringes of LDS, Inc. and the associated trauma); I won't claim any special virtue since I was "forced" by my own diseases of alcoholism/addiction/codependency to revisit, reprocess, and grieve a lot of my own dysfunctional psychopathology.

And one of the wisest analyses of "our journey" was from the late Sheldon Kopp's views where he speaks of a "sharing of tales."

I try to stick to that agenda and remain as honest as I can...

"I can only theorize that different people have an emotional and psychological resiliency that others." That is true. There is a strong genetic component to it.

Socially what matters is aggregate data. There are no black-and-white rules, but there are probabilities. Some kids go through horrible abuse and escape more or less without damage. But most suffer long-term and sometimes permanent harm, and some go on to perpetuate the dynamic in the next generation.

That's why society has cracked down so much on most forms of child abuse. More has to be done, surely, but a lot of progress has been made. In the meantime we can only feel happy for, and respectful of, those who have managed to build good lives despite abusive childhoods.

My daughter is a social worker with CPS,and I have heard some stories from her that are unbelievable. One of them is about a 10 month old baby boy. His mother got pissed at the father and took scissors and castrated the baby. Some little ones are forced to live in a horror story situation unless somebody comes to the rescue. That is why I got so upset when someone on this board who quite obviously was not rowing with both oars, talked about wanting a child repeatedly. Some of us tried to be the voice of reason, and others encouraged him like he was talking about a puppy. Some people never get it together and should not have children.
That all aside, Elder Berry is so right. We all take things differently. Some victims of sexual abuse suffer more damage than others, and some use their coping skills better. (((Elder Berry)))) You're a trooper!

I have a MSW and almost took a job working for DC Child and Families. I thank God I didn't take that job because I think it would really cause me nightmares. People can be just horrible.

knotheadusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a MSW and almost took a job working for DC
> Child and Families. I thank God I didn't take
> that job because I think it would really cause me
> nightmares. People can be just horrible.

Knotheadusc, I am a USC grad, also, as are my childen! :^)
I don't know how anybody deals with the social work. My daughter has her way of working through this stuff. And, even so, sometimes she threatens to quit.
Most recently, a 13 year old girl who was already blind in one eye, made her mother mad. The mother retaliated by taking a fork and blinding the child's other eye. That's what can happen when somebody who is crazy and mean has children. (Of course everybody who is mentally ill is not violent, not by a long stretch, but when they are...)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2018 12:09PM by Aquarius123.

An older boy molested me in Pennsylvania. He wasn't Mormon. It was very disturbing, but my sex interview with the bishop was worse. I pushed the boy off of me, but I could never push off the oppression of the men at church. My mind was molested by Mormonism. My body was molested by a boy.

You are one of the most brave, kind, and gentle people I know.

You broke the cycle. You. Are. Strong.

Bethie is right Don. I think you're a wonderful person who has

dealt with so much shit in your life and come out a gently and

sweet man. I'm so glad I know you.

I love both of you right back!

donbagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My body was molested by a
> boy.

Who only saw you as a physical object to use?

This was also emotional abuse in my opinion.

I love you too Don!

Never was molested but I do wonder if I am permanently broken on the inside.

Badassadam1 Wrote:
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> Never was molested but I do wonder if I am
> permanently broken on the inside.


Insulting to people who have been molested sexually, which is what this thread is about.

Thank you.

I disagree. I think we were all broken. I do remember a time early in life developing the skill to save or repair myself. Some dont and some have faced circumstances where it has become too evil to recover from. No one knows how big or small it takes for the circumstance to become that way. I just know that I started one brick at a time. Sometimes its fast, sometimes it slows and sometimes its blocked out for years before I can start. And its a personschoice at when to heal like #metoo.
But we are all broken and left shuddering in the street.

Two of the most evil ideas in Mormonism are

- In the preexistence you chose your earthly parents, and

- God will never allow you to suffer more than you can endure.

Those teachings shift responsibility from the abuser to the victim. They are logically and morally wrong.


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I agree with you that there is no such thing as full recovery abuse. Humans are the sum of their genetics and their experience. There is no escaping those things and their interaction.

Sometimes a person has more genetic resilience; the damage from abuse is more limited. Sometimes there are support structures in place that mitigate the harm. Often people will use time and therapy to come to terms with what happened or to reinterpret it in more positive ways. But it occurred, and for better or worse it left its mark.

What Elder Berry says about "bruised" versus "broken" is entirely reasonable. Every individual's experience is unique, and I suspect he is one of those who emerged from abuse without too much harm, perhaps subsequently living in ways that reduced the damage still further. A lot of people, however, are not so strong/healthy/lucky. Some escape through denial and all it brings; others spend years or decades trying with more or less success to heal.

But in virtually every case, surely, it would have been better if the abuse had not happened.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> What Elder Berry says about "bruised" versus
> "broken" is entirely reasonable. Every
> individual's experience is unique, and I suspect
> he is one of those who emerged from abuse without
> too much harm, perhaps subsequently living in ways
> that reduced the damage still further. A lot of
> people, however, are not so strong/healthy/lucky.
> Some escape through denial and all it brings;
> others spend years or decades trying with more or
> less success to heal.

I believe I was finally able to start my recovery when I grew older. I had suppressed many memories of my molestations. Mormonism facilitated and accommodated my denial of my abuse. I never forgot everything. There was certain incidents I could never forget. It was interesting in talking with my wife early on about it and her questioning me about it ever happening and if I had made it up.

But then in my 30s I discovered Joseph Smith was a sexual predator. I had experienced sexual predation. I had also experienced family members telling me that I was wrong when I was a kid about how I didn't like certain people touching me. So to continue to idealize and idolize Joseph Smith wasn't possible. I had questioning in my blood and the "prophet" being a perp crashed my Mormon world.

So I began the long protracted journey out of Mormonism and in tandem recovering lots of memories of sexual abuse.

It was difficult. My family as well as many Mormon families dismiss abuses physical as well as sexual. I was physically abused by my father and my sister who also sexually molested me. It was life. I'm not a violent person. I'm verbally aggressive but not physically. I did my own share of verbal abuse towards my family especially the person who taught me to do it and did it to me a lot - my mother.

You have to understand I was probably a classic case. After the most intense sexual abuse as a scout I turned to substance abuse. I had been a very gregarious, outgoing, and happy child and early teen and then I went dark. I was bottling so much anger.

Long story short I Stockholm Syndromed my substance abuse and turned back to Mormonism to get clean. It was a loop. I turned to the thing that helped perpetuate my abuse as a way to turn from destructive coping mechanisms. I eventually married and brought children into the cult. No wonder I was suicidal when my shelf collapsed.

But I think genetically I have more "happy" genes and they have helped me be resilient. Blocking is a terrible coping mechanism but it appeals to people like me who want to forget the bad things.

> But in virtually every case, surely, it would have
> been better if the abuse had not happened.


Amen.