OT question for you handy-minded people or those who have survived a remodeling / renovation:

How hard and pricey is it to move entire rooms to another part of a house?

For example, if we want to move a laundry room, or a bath, or even the kitchen to the opposite side of the house... how realistic is this?

I'll eventually get a contractor, but I'm pretty handy (my friends call me Jack Hammer) so I'll do a lot of the work myself - sheetrocking, etc. But plumbing isn't really my thing... just want to know upfront what to tell the wife about her big hopes of a gourmet kitchen... and hell, my stomach wants it to work out too (she's a fine cook!)

Before I'd tackle anything as extensive as you're talking about, I'd move.

You are looking at the price of a new house for a remodel like that.
And you didn't say whether or not your existing house has a basement.

It's ridiculously expensive because of the plumbing, electrical and gas lines involved. Move a kitchen to another part of the house? Don't even think about it.

Move a bathroom? Not quite as bad, but damned expensive.

Laundry room? Same thing, too expensive to run feed/drain and 220 lines (or gas lines) to another part of the house.

Just sayin'...

Ron

Homes are built with all the electrical and plumbing planned in. If you want to move those rooms you have to put those in from scratch.

Kitchen and laundry would require 220 and or gas. Both would require water and sewer. Your looking at tearing out drywall and likely some flooring at least. In a basement if sewer is not already present you'll be jack-hammering out concrete.

We just remodeled a laundry room in a basement and moved the 220, sewer and vent to another wall...but it all there already. We just ran it to the corner.


Not that you cant do it but is it really worth it.

In a down real estate market buying another home that it closer to what you want may be the better option.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2011 12:42PM by badseed.

You would most likely have to move wall and/or doors so you would have to be aware of which walls are load-bearing. Tearing out a load-bearing wall without the proper supports in place could cause the building to collapse.

You would have to move sewer, water, electrical and possibly gas lines.

It would be a HUGE job.

But, if you're serious about doing it, you should call a contractor to give you an estimate. If for no other reason, it will give him/her something to laugh about until the economy picks up.

One other thing to consider. Doing so would probably add very little to the value of your home compared to the cost so I agree with Jan. If you want a gourmet kitchen that bad you should move to a house that has one. It would most likely be cheaper.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2011 12:28PM by Mnemonic.

The fact that it is a family property and will stay in the family certainly changes the cost/benefit analysis, but it's still going to be expensive.

Good luck to you.

If you do decide to do it, let us know how it turns out.

Aw, damn. I figured as much, but hoped otherwise.

Gillian won't be happy to hear this... anybody else want to tell her? She'll probably shoot the messenger, lol.

Maybe rather than trying to work within the existing floorplan, I can just add on to the back and build in a new kitchen there? Moving isn't an option.

If you plan it so that the exsisting plumbing is in line whith the addition, it won't be too bad. Plumbing has to tie into exsisting line and drains, and you need to vent too... Running new electrical not that hard.

You can run pipes anywhere you want. THe questions are how much are you willing to pay, and how much dust, noise and mess are you willing to put up with and for how long are you willing to put up with that? But the really big question is, How strong is your marriage? Remodeling can take its toll on relationships.

I have done it (very similar) and I am in happy valley-- it can be done and if you are handy and contract it yourself it is doable.
You will need a building permit and some engineering done.
What is your general location ?

Thanks for everyone's input.

I'm in east Texas. Like I mentioned before, moving isn't an option. This place has been in my wife's family for three generations and she wants to be buried here. Can't really tear it down and start over either for that same reason - she wants to keep the basic original structure as intact as possible, at least as far as the exterior is concerned.

Building permit won't be an issue - I checked on that already. Dust, noise, and mess... again, not a problem. Gillian is great about that.

I think it's just the feasability and cost that has me worried.

If you do ANYTHING to an older house, make sure the original can handle an increased load. You don't want to invest the time, money, and bloodshed to a snazzy kitchen add-on, only to find out the sinks drain so slowly it takes an hour to empty.

Kitchens eat astounding amounts of electricity. You try to get away with jerry-wiring it yourself, you'll blow circuits/fuses every time you plug in the toaster when the dishwasher is running. Thinking about adding two more breakers to the circuit box? Well, you'll need a licensed electrician, and a permit, and you may discover that the county codes require the entire house to be up to code for that. Got an extra couple thou to rewire the entire house?

If you want to add onto the house, unless you are on several acres, you have to check the lot setbacks. If the rear setback is unreasonable, you might have to design a gourmet kitchen that is only three feet wide.

Consider gutting the kitchen you have, and maybe popping that wall out a couple feet?

~VOW



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2011 01:10PM by voweaver.

Regardless, you'd never EVER get your money back out of the house upon sale.

Ron

It also depends on how bad the current floor plan is, how good the new one will be...etc. etc. etc.

If you have a basement and it isn't finished.... Its expensive to move a kitchen but not prohibitively so. Plumbing would be the most expensive. If its an older house you would like re-do the electrical anyway and it is not hard(probably not a DIY job tho) to re-wire a house.

I think its an option. Make sure you get at least 3 bids from good contractors.....Maybe design build firm, they would be able to design the project too.

No basements here - the water table is too high.

Wife's parents had all the electrical and insulation brought up to code in the 80s. Still, I agree than a good electrician is a must. I can do basic stuff like install lights, but running wires and messing with circuits isn't my thing.

There is plenty of land to expand onto, so easements aren't an issue. The old floor plan is pretty typical of older homes where everything is "closed off" into little individual rooms. Gilly would like a more "open" plan and is pretty damn talented at designing such.

Ron, I know we'll never get our money out of it, but it is a nice area and has lots of sentimental value and great memories. Jill grew up here and wants to stay... for us, that's worth sinking a little money into.

including moving the shower, toilet, and sink to opposite sides of the room. It required new plumbing and electrical work. He is very handy too, like me, and he spent 2-3K for a plumber and electrician. If you are in a city, you gotta be concerned about local building codes to an extent. He did everything else, and it looks great. Plumbing has gotten so much easier with the use of PEX tubing. I just changed the breaker panel out in my cabin (100amps), and it wasn't any big deal. I needed a few more 220's, and I ran my own line to an electric water pump w/ no problem. I had a licensed electrician come out before hand, and consult with me for a small fee. If your handly, you can figure a lot of it and do it yourself, and cut way back on the cost. Hey, they do it on the DIY network all the time..lol.

All I can tell you is that nine years ago we blew 125 K on a project less ambitious than yours. It did involve a kitchen redo and adding on a bathroom. But we didn't have to move any water/sewer lines. To meet code, we did rewire the whole house and put in a new service entrance. Noise and mess wasn't an issue, since we didn't move in until the job was finished. We did go first cabin on cabinets, counter tops, etc., so we could have gotten by for less.

But-I-must-say-we've-enjoyed-the-result-ly yrs,

S

equation.

I would hire an architect. I love to draw out floor plans too, but there are so many ramifications I could never understand.

It isn't just the direction of the drains, but the depth for the slope needed for extra length for example.

An experienced professional can come up with solutions no amateur could dream up, and can save you money in the end.

I totally agree that it changes the cost/benefit equation, Heresy. Thank you for understanding (rather than suggest we just move).

Like I said, it's been in the family for generations and we plan on being buried here. There is a small family cemetery on a back corner of the land... some people think that's 'creepy' but we don't.

My nephew is a professional hydrologist, and he has agreed to review any water/drainage issues. You are right that we need a good architect though.

I just wanted to know if this was feasible without spending a fortune. Gillian doesn't care about granite counters, but she would like a dishwasher, so it's not like we want high-end things. It seems like it is possible (even if many of you don't think it practical) and I think if I do a lot of the stuff that I am capable of and contract out the stuff that has to be done just right, we will be a-okay in terms of budget.

Granite is not that expensive..our quartz countertops were much more than granite and the colors were better.

The house means so much, I'd just find a way for it to work.

Not many people are lucky enough to have a family home.

stormy

It will probably be super-expensive. But not necessarily so.

Here are some questions --

1) Do you have a crawlspace? Is it fairly easy to get into?
2) Do you have a large room you'd like to use as the new kitchen without moving any walls?
3) Can you clear out the "new kitchen" and have it completely sealed off from the house during construction?

If so, you can just build a new kitchen in the "family room." You can take your time, rip open the walls to install plumbing and wiring, change windows, and hook it all up via the crawlspace. When you're done with Kitchen #2, you rip out Kitchen #1 and turn it into a living room/den/whatever.

The big costs come when you:
* lose access to any kitchen during construction
* need to bust through basement ceilings and walls to add plumbing and wiring
* need to move existing walls
* need to add on to the house
* need to tiptoe generally
* need to make the project happen fast.

My suggestion
1) make up a basic floor plan of your house, on graph paper, to scale. Photocopy it, and fuss around with it to make a couple different proposals.
2) call a couple random architects out of the phone book, find one that sounds interested, reasonable and competent, have him/her come by and take a look. Give you ball-park estimates of what is feasible, what isn't, and what will be expensive and what won't.
3) talk to any friends within 100 miles that have had kitchen renos, go look at their kitchens, ask them frank questions about whether they're satisfied, how much it cost, who did the work.

No harm in dreaming, won't cost you anything but time to do these things. But just keep your sights realistic.

If all you need is a dishwasher and more food-prep space, then consider putting a mobile diswasher in the dining room or lavatory and configuring a food-prep area in your dining room. There's a lot of non-conventional, but functional, changes you can make with a $2000 budget.

My thoughts, (I'm 10 months into a 1-yr home renovation)

RG



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2011 03:40PM by reinventinggrace.

If you're in the country, you could also build a new kitchen separate from the house, connected by a breezeway. Kind of like a garage. Then you can design it however you like, put in a vaulted ceiling, you're not constrained by the existing house floor plan, and construction can occur without distupting your day-to-day lives.

RG

It took 6 weeks start to finish for the kitchen and it took five weeks for the custom cabinets to come in. No kitchen and two small boys. Good old microwave. We made due and we grilled outside a lot. You can do it.

stormy

Great thoughts, RG. I appreciate it.

We didn't move the kitchen just tore down a wall that separated the dining area from the kitchen. By we, I mean the contractors. All I did was pick absolutely everything I wanted and told them where I wanted it. It was a middle top ofline remodeling and it cost me over $50,000..but it was worth every penny because I love it. It's done in soft, natural western rock colors. It makes me smile.

Getting ready to do the bathroom...and that won't be cheap either and we're not changing the area or the orientation of the plumping. Just can't help I like nice things. The most fun thing will be the air bubble tub. I can hardly wait to sink in it.

I'd move before I moved those rooms elsewhere.

stormy

A lot of good information here from board members. As a professional kitchen and bath designer for 37 years (now mostly retired) I'm surprised that no one mentioned working with a designer to see if the desired location for the kitchen really works as envisioned or not. I've had clients who dreamed of a kitchen for years in another area of the house but when I drew up plans for that area the kitchen wasn't as functional as where it was currently located. Working with an architect is advisable when major structural changes are required but "space planning" can be invaluable before jumping into a project. Two or three inches of available wall space can make or break a plan. Sometimes a client wants an kitchen island and when the plan is laid out, there isn't enough room. You don't want to be disappointed after spending thousands of dollars and months without a kitchen.

Walking --

Good point on "architect" vs. "designer".

I'm strictly a "do it yourself" guy, I didn't know there were professional "designers" out there.

Jack n Jill, let us know how your decisionmaking proceeds,

RG (not logged in)

RG

You can study code and do it yourself if you are a smart monkey, you don't need a whole new house.
Study applicable code for your area. Your county should fail or pass your permit based on these codes.

We are doing everything you mention and then some on our own, but one of us has a background in electrical engineering. That is the one part I would recommend a novice contract out.

Pex is really awesome stuff, but soldering copper pipe is fun too. We brought in a plumber for a "side job" to do our drains for everything under the slab because we didn't want to have to dig that back up if we messed up, but tied it into the fixtures ourselves.

The more people who will work "on the side" for you, the cheaper this whole project will be.

So much info is available online these days! Make studying what you want to do your new hobby, and you'll do well. :)

Me and my roommate just did quite a bit of renovating on our kitchen using nothing but our limited knowledge and a lot of time on Google. Granted, we did not have to mess with plumbing or electric, but here's a few tips for keeping the budget down otherwise:

Don't get new cabinets. Unless your old ones are falling apart or something, you can easily paint or stain them yourself and add some new hardware and have what looks to be new cabinets, but for under a hundred bucks. New cabinets are insanely expensive.

Granite is not really your best option, unless you're going for style. If your wife cooks a lot then she'll most likely want some sort of heat-proof counter-top (i.e. NOT formica) but what we're working on at home is just doing a heat-proof material (we haven't decided between granite, quartz, etc yet) on the island. Then I have somewhere to set hot pots and pans, but we don't have to spend 20k replacing counters that are in perfectly fine shape. In the meantime, I got on the website for Okite and ordered a full set of samples, which I laid out on the counter to create a slap-dash but effective method of keeping me from singing the countertops.

How big is your kitchen now? How much more room do you think you need to make it work? Installing a dishwasher shouldn't be a massive task, really. Unless there's zero free space anywhere, I guess.