I mean, couldn't there ever be a religious group that decided that the Last Days would be in, say, 2315? Then they could realize that to be relevant they had to help people find fulfillment and happiness in normal life activities and such.

Any takers?

Boyd K Packer stood up in Conference and told the saints that up to three generations would come forth before the second coming. He said little kids there at the conference could see their grandchildren born before the second coming.

As he was giving this oration, ushers were handing out brochures about the condos at City Creek, with their 99-year leases...

I hope I'm not sounding too cynical.

What a scam. So the assumption is that when Jesus comes, he will be spending a lot if time at the church's main temple in Salt Lake, right by church headquarters. So if you have a condo accross the street from the temple, you'll probably be seeing Jesus around in your neighborhood all the time. With a 99 year lease and Jesus coming before then, you'll be perfectly situated. I am sure the cost is very high for those condos.

The technique is called pump and dump. The church pumps up the perceived value, sell their product, and then in this case when Jesus doesn't come, the buyers lose a lot of money when the value falls. A hundred years from now, no one will remember what Boyd K. Packer said or promised. He will be dead himself by then.

Boyd is already dead.

So he didn't need the full lease?

Perhaps a fortnight before that event, Boyd had given a fire-and-brimstone sermon saying the US was headed down the tubes. I believe some scoundrel recorded it and then published bits and pieces.

Boyd then gave the speech you describe. I think, in the interim, he had been spoken to harshly and perhaps spanked.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2018 12:55AM by Lot's Wife.

And so they want to think that THEY are the last generation. If history is gonna end, surely it's gonna end with ME, not with some nitwit in 2315?

'Cause the "second coming" always hasn't happened yet.

I suspect it will be that way as long as there are humans who believe the jeezus stories...

Most of the references to the "second coming" in the New Testament indicate that it was going to happen very soon, within the lifetimes of those writing and reading the New Testament documents. So there are fundamentalist and evangelical Christians today who read these statements, ignore the historical context, and just assume that the "very soon" nature of these statements obviously applies to today, and see unmistakable evidence in current world events of the "signs" of the second coming associated with these New Testament statements.

Real power and control for the leaders if they can convince you that if you don't do as they say you'll be standing in front of Jesus any day now at the imminent Second Coming.

All Christians have always believed the end is near during there lifetime, but I think it is just human nature that as we all live our lives we see what is happening in the world and think how can this keep going...blah, blah, blah.

Because their prophets are old. Their last days are always as a prophet.

They ACT in terms of short-term thinking, but SPEAK in terms of 'the Eternity'

I'm 61. I was very much on my way out when I was reading Dialog. There was one edition where they talked about the early years in Utah and how the women would leave their husbands to be sealed to the leaders because it was a ticket into the CK. They were taught THEN that the end was NEAR. That was really eye-opening to me.

cl2 Wrote:
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> They were taught THEN that the end was NEAR.

"My dear brothers and sisters in the one true faith, verily I say unto you, that the end is near.
It has always been near, and always will be. Thus it shall forever be. Amen and amen."

Saying that makes the members feel special. You have to throw them a bone every so often. Helps keep the filthy lucre rolling in.

I think we have lived through a particularly important time being exactly 6000 years since the fall. this is recognized by christians and jews and muslims who all have an end of world belief. For mormons we had to endure the Saturday Night evening of time, Saturdays Warrior phenomenon that lasted a good 20 years. All the McConkieites running around, seriously it's all I remember from the 80's-90's being talked about. That and how the eastern liberals are so wicked and taking over (Benson). But this is by no mean unique to Religious nuts.

It's even worse with the media, The intellectual establishment use to run on and on about the big one that was suppose to hit the wasatch, and dystory all the old houses, and we use to hear about the depleting ozone layers around S. America and how we are all suppose to have ultra violet cancer from running around outside (so never ever go outside again), and then about that gas was going to run out in the 90's and that the Ruskies were going to bomb us. None of that happened, and the planet is doing just fine much to the chagrin of the Academic elites.

Then we had 911 and y2k, huricane Catrina, all reminding us how we need to be prepared and hunker down in our bomb shelters, with our 2 year supply.

So it's all big business, and it's mostly coming from the intellectual establishment (the Bill Nyes) those with big big heads and little brains.

anono this week Wrote:
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> I think we have lived through a particularly
> important time being exactly 6000 years since the
> fall. this is recognized by christians and jews
> and muslims who all have an end of world belief.

No, actually, that's *not* recognized by the people you claim it is. In fact, the vast majority of them accept the overwhelming scientific evidence of a 4.5 billion year-old planet, an origin of humans at least 200,000 years ago, and the idea that the "fall" story in the bible is (at best) allegorical, not literal.

Time for you to catch up?

anono raises an important point regarding the media. It is true that terrible things happen, and it is true that terrible things could happen at any time (such as nuclear warfare, as in the Cold War years or another terrorist attack). But the news media is so often quick to jump in and explain everything in terms of an unmitigated crisis, with solutions to be offered by- the news media, of course. Religion and news outlets both share this common need for there to be crises, to justify their paychecks. Those of us who see things in more nuanced terms with more historical perspective are just not invited to the party.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2018 05:44PM by slskipper.

The fact that crises pass does not mean they were not crises.

I think it's a combination of several of these points. The 2nd coming hasn't happened yet, so it must be soon. This generation is the "most special".

My personal favorite is being told that if you're "righteous" that you'll live to see the last day. What if I'm not "righteous", but live to see 110 years, does that mean that my lack of "righteousness" forced God to hold off on the 2nd coming? Does that mean it'll never happen due to the number of people who have been "promised" this, but fell away from the church? Maybe that's why it's never happened, there has to be a "perfect" generation... Right?

I do remember being a kid in youth programs and even in the MTC, being told that our generation was "it" that we would see amazing things regarding the "last days", the signs were finally coming true! I even remember specifically being told that our parents wouldn't. I've always wanted to ask my Dad if he was told the same thing as a kid and how he felt about me being told that he'd have to die before the 2nd coming. I don't think he'd appreciate the question very much.

It has always been so:

The Saints were going to see the end in 1890 or 1891, according to the Prophet:

Nov 3, 1831. D&C 133:17. "The hour of [Christ's Second] coming is nigh."

April 23, 1834. D&C 104:59. "...to prepare my people for the time when I shall dwell with them, which is nigh at hand."

Nov 25, 1834. D&C 106:4. "The coming of the Lord draweth nigh..."

Apr 3, 1836, D&C 110:16. "The great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors."

Feb 14, 1835. HC 2:182. Joseph Smith preached that the coming of the Lord would be in 56 years (i.e., about 1891). This prophecy also occurs in his diary for April 6, 1843 and HC 5:336. See also D&C 130:14-17. Joseph Smith prophesies that "there of those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till Christ comes." He prophesies "in the name of the Lord God - let it be written: that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old, 48 years hence or about 1890." (The official historians have deleted the last phrase, beginning with "48 years" from the church history, but it is contained in the original diary.) The version in D&C 130 is phrased negatively, i.e., Christ will not come before 1890. It is also made conditional on Joseph Smith living to the age of 85. Joseph Smith says (v 16) that it might merely mean that if he lives to 85 he will go where Christ is, and therefore see his face. But that interpretation would not make sense if the revelation is in response to Joseph Smith's inquiry about the time of the second coming (v 14).

But then, just to be safe, he prophesied that the Lord would NOT come in any year in which a rainbow appears. (March 10, 1844, HC 6:249-254, TJS p 341 - one of the very few prophecies of his which has been fulfilled)

Revelation 1:1-3 predicted that the upheavals described would "soon" come to pass.

The Second Coming (and the End of the World) was promised by Jesus to be within the generation contemporary with him (Matt 10:7, 23, 16:28, 24:32-34, Mark 9:1, 13:24-30, Luke 9:27, 21:25-32). Paul also said this (1 Thess 4:15, 17, Heb 1:2, 10:37, 9:26 ["now in the end of the world he hath appeared"], 1 Cor 7:29; also 1 John 2:18, James 5:8, 1 Pet 4:7 ["end of all things is at hand"]). Jesus says that some of his listeners will "not taste death" until he returns in glory (Matt 16:28, Mark 9:1, 13:30, Luke 9:27). See also Matt 4:17, John 5:25, 12:31 on the imminence of the last days ("soon", "shortly"). Luke is the only one to hedge, saying "the end is not by and by" (Luke 21:9, 19:11).

Joel said (4th cent. B.C.) that Judgment Day was "near" even then (Joel 3:14, 2:1).

Paul and John say that their own time is the end of the world because the signs have already appeared (Heb 9:26, 1 John 2:18).

Daniel said the End was when the Book of Daniel was "unsealed" (Dan 12:4, written about 165 BC).

"that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old"

I think it was Fielding who claimed that since the condition (Smith living to 85) didn't occur, then the entire prophecy was invalidated and we didn't have to think about it ever again.

But that raises the question, why the number 85? Smith didn't even live to see 39. "The Lord" could have used 39 or 56 or 72 and the prophecy would have been equally invalid, but no, it was 85.

So either there was a specific reason for 85 or else "The Lord" was just pulling a random number out of his Lordly ass. And the reason, as you noted, was that Smith was thinking of an 1890-91 time frame.

The other early church leaders (Young, Taylor, Woodruff, etc.) also interpreted Smith's declarations as meaning an 1890-91 end. That's probably why Woodruff caved to the government's demands and issued the (First) Manifesto in October 1890: he believed polygamy would only be suspended for a few months until its millennial reinstatement.

the term 'generations' is an especially ambiguous one in Mormondumb, it means (as most) Anything they say it does (or doesn't)


just sayin'

Because it is the last day! the last one just before tomorrow

A women I knew was told in her PB that she's raise her children in the millennium....she croaked about 30 years ago.

If the Last Day was known to be in 2000 years no one would care. Too big a risk.

There has to be a looming threat, or else why pay this month? The takers have the same needs as the givers, who must always do with less.

If they were a few years ago we would be done already.