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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 05:38AM

--A Final Thumbs-Up for the "Rolling Stone" Prophecy--

In what proved to be his last General Conference talk, then-Mormon president Gordon B. Hinckley boasted that the LDS Church, like some kind of big bad stone, would bounce on down the hill and roll forth to fill the entire planet, thus saith the Lard in the Lard's folksy kinda way.

You tell 'em, Smash Gordon:

"Now, my brothers and sisters, we live with an interesting phenomenon."

(Listen up, folks. The prophet is about to utter something important about "an interesting phenomenon"):

"A soloist sings the same song again and again. An orchestra repeats the same music. But a speaker is expected to come up with something new every time he speaks. I am going to break that tradition this morning and repeat in a measure what I have said on another occasion."

(Darn. And we were all hoping for something new and exciting).

"The Church has become one large family scattered across the earth. There are now more than 13 million of us in 176 nations and territories. A marvelous and wonderful thing is coming to pass. The Lord is fulfilling His promise that His gospel shall be as the stone cut out of the mountain without hands which would roll forth and fill the whole earth, as Daniel saw in vision (see Daniel 2:31–45; D&C 65:2). A great miracle is taking place right before our eyes."

{Gordon B. Hinckley, "The Stone Cut Out of the Mountain," 178th Semiannual General Conference, Sunday Morning Session address, October 2007, Salt Lake City, Utah, at: http://www.moroni10.com/General_Conference/Gordon_B_Hinckleys_Final_Talk.html)

Looks like Switzerland didn't get the memo.
_____


--Mormon Shrinkage, Led by the Swiss--

The Lard's Church has since announced that, come July 1 of this year, the under-performing Geneva Switzerland mission will be shut down and folded into an already existing one in, well, France.

An article on LDS Church "growth" headlines the bad news for latter-day stone-rollers everywhere (OK, so maybe they're not exactly everywhere):

"'France Toulouse and Switzerland Geneva Missions to Consolidate Into the France Lyon Mission This July."

As Jim Morrison and "The Doors" would say, "Roll, baby, roll" . . .

"Missionaries report that the France Toulouse Mission and Switzerland Geneva Mission will combine into a single mission this July. The mission will be renamed the France Lyon Mission and administer LDS missionary work throughout southern France and Francophone Switzerland. Some areas will also reportedly be transferred over to the France Paris Mission as part of the consolidation."

Roll, baby, roll . . .

"This mission consolidation as well as others that will occur this July are part of a redistribution of mission resources from less productive, more self-reliant areas to more receptive, less self-sufficient areas and also represents the challenge of expanding mission outreach worldwide with a finite number of LDS missionaries."

Now, roll out the spin and spin, baby, spin . . .

"The consolidation of missions in less productive nations often does not significantly affect the number of convert baptisms and often convert retention rates remain constant or improve as a result of greater involvement of local members in mission activity. Consequently, we are most likely to see additional mission consolidations in North America and Europe in the coming years."

Spin, baby, spin . . .

"The primary reasons for the limited number of LDS missionaries include a decline in LDS birth rates in the United States, consistently low rates of North American members serving full-time missions (where the bulk of the LDS missionary force originates), and the failure of developing totally self-sufficient missionary manpower in the nations which draw the greatest numbers of missionary resources."

All night long.

("LDS Church Growth," posted by "I'm a Mormon," 6 February 2011, at: http://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com/2011/02/france-toulouse-and-switzerland-geneva.html; see also, John E. Evans, "Switzerland Geneva--News Item: Mission Closing," 6 Februaray 2011, at: http://www.mission.net/switzerland/geneva/news.php?nID=5622)
_____


--Switzerland Moves Against the Mormons, and the Mormons Try An Endrun Through the Halls of the U.S. Congress--

A mere two months prior to prophetic public notice that this stone cut out of the mountain without hands was getting a sizeable downsizing at the hands of an unbelieving, uncooperativbe world, media reports were broadcasting the news that the Swiss government was making Swiss cheese out of Mormon plans to conquer their country.

The Swiss government, you see, has moved to limit in-country LDS missionary activity on the basis of foreign worker labor law.

Damn the Mormon God, full employment ahead.

From the "Salt Lake Tribune," on Swiss government restrictions placed on Mormon missionary work per immigration employment rules:

"Washington--Thirteen members of Congress are urging Swiss authorities to allow Mormon missionaries to continue serving in the country beyond 2012, when a new rule would forbid non-European Union citizens from serving as missionaries.

"Senators Bob Bennett and Orrin Hatch, both Utah Republicans, and Rep. Jim Matheson, D-Utah, joined other Mormon members of Congress in urging the Swiss government to meet with leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to figure out a way for missionaries to continue serving in the country.

"'It would be a great tragedy for our two nations if the long-standing missionary program of the LDS Church in Switzerland were terminated,' the members wrote. 'Switzerland can have no more enthusiastic, lifetime ambassadors in the United States than these young people when they return home.'

"Switzerland entered into an accord with the European Union in 2002 that allows European nationals to seek employment in the country while restricting work permits for citizens of other countries, according to a report by Swissinfo.ch. A recent court ruling found that missionaries are considered "gainfully employed" and subject to the accord.

"The existing transition agreement allowed a maximum of 80 Mormon missionaries from the United States into the country this year and 50 will be allowed in 2011 but no more after that,' the news agency reported.

"'This is really an employment law issue,' said Robert Smith, managing director of Brigham Young University’s International Center for Law and Religion. 'It has to do with how to regulate the inflow of immigrants. The catch is that they’ve ruled that missionaries are employees and therefore subject to immigration restrictions.'

"The basic idea for the Swiss government, Smith said, is 'to treat all religious groups equally.'

"Even if the government were 'inclined to allow missionaries from one church to come in,' he said, 'they would be concerned that they would have to be fair to all. I don’t think there’s any effort to target Mormon missionaries.'

"Church spokesman Scott Trotter said Tuesday that the Utah-based church has a long history with the country dating to 1850 and that missionaries who have served there return with 'great love and respect' for the country.

"'We hope a solution can be found that allows missionaries, regardless of their country of origin, to continue to serve the Swiss people,' Trotter said.

"The church built its first European temple in Bern, according to the letter from the congressional members, a point they say underscores the importance of the relationship between the church and the country.

"Bennett said Tuesday he wasn’t sure what to make of the response by then-Swiss Ambassador Urs Ziswiler, who wrote in October that it would be up the 'relevant communities' to decide whether to allow missionaries in.

"'It isn’t a flat no; it isn’t a "You guys are right" kind of response,' Bennett said. 'We certainly will continue to press on that issue because Mormon missionaries have been in Switzerland for over a century and for [the Swiss government] to decide now they’re not going to let them in anymore is, I think, aside from the impact on the Mormons, I think a demonstration of the level of intolerance on the part of the Swiss that is in no way consistent with the Swiss tradition.'

"The Swiss Embassy in Washington responded to a request for comment by forwarding a copy of Ziswiler’s October letter."

(Thomas Burr and Peggy Fletcher Stack, "Swiss Urged to Continue Tradition of Mormon Missionaries," in "Salt Lake Tribune, 14 December 2010, updated 23 March 2011, at: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50871951-76/missionaries-swiss-church-mormon.html.csp; see also, "[Mormon] Church Statement Regarding Switzerland Missionaries," 14 December 2010, at: http://newsroom.lds.org/article/church-statement-regarding-swiss-missionaries)


Complicating matters for the Marvelous Work and a Wonder Magic Mountain Stone Cutters, CNN reported on Mormon/U.S. governmental efforts to get around the Swiss government's actions limiting LDS and other denominational activity within that country's sovereign borders:

"Because of changes in Swiss immigration and labor laws, the Mormon church and other religious groups soon will be unable to send any non-European missionaries to Switzerland.

"But Mormon leaders and some U.S. government officials are hoping to find a way around that change in policy.

"Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints officials issued a statement on Tuesday saying Mormons have 'a long history in Switzerland dating back to 1850. We hope a solution can be found that allows missionaries, regardless of their country of origin to serve the Swiss people.'

"A group of 13 Mormon members of Congress, including Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid drafted a letter in August asking Swiss officials to reconsider their decision, especially as it applies to Mormon missionaries.

"'We earnestly petition the Swiss government to reconsider this decision and to work with us and the LDS Church to find a solution which would permit LDS missionaries to continue to perform their missionary service in Switzerland as they have done since 1850,' states the letter from Sens. Mike Crapo, R-Idaho; Orrin Hatch, R-Utah; Robert Bennett, R-Utah; and Reid, D-Nevada; and nine members of the House of Representatives.

"The Swiss ambassador in Washington, Urs Ziswiler, said in response to the letter that the ban is the result of a 2002 change in Swiss immigration and labor laws that makes it easier for European nationals to find work in Switzerland and harder for everyone else, including missionaries.

"Since 2008, missionary work in Switzerland is 'considered as being for gainful employment,' Ziswiler said, even though LDS missionaries are not paid for their time or service.

"Norbert Baerlocher, the spokesman for the Swiss Embassy, . . . explained that the law does not apply just to the Latter-day Saints, but to any religious group that wants to send non-European missionaries or religious caregivers to work in Switzerland. Swiss courts decided that missionary work is 'almost always linked to money, and therefore you have to have a working permit.'

"Baerlocher said the number of permits is decided by the Federal Council of Switzerland and that the number of permits can vary depending on the economic situation inside Switzerland. If the nation has high unemployment, it might reduce the number of permits, but can increase the number to meet the demand for labor during an economic boom.

"Though not part of the European Union, Switzerland has made bilateral agreements with the EU that allow freedom of movement for Swiss and EU citizens. Immigration rules will keep out non-European missionaries, but churches can send as many missionaries as they want, as long as they are Swiss or from the EU, Baerlocher said.

"According to church records, Switzerland is home to almost 8,000 Mormons and the Bern Switzerland Temple, the oldest LDS temple outside North America, which was completed in 1955. There are 100 Mormon missionaries currently serving in the Switzerland Geneva Mission and 171 missionaries in the Alpine-German Speaking Mission, though not all of them work in Switzerland because the mission boundaries overlap several different countries in the area.

"The church was only able to send 80 non-European missionaries to Switzerland this year, it is limited to 50 in 2011, and none will be allowed into the country starting in 2012."

(Kelly Marshall Smoot, "Mormons, U.S. officials Seek Way Around Swiss Missionary Restriction," by "CNN,", 16 December 2010, at: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/16/mormons-u-s-officials-seek-way-around-swiss-missionary-restriction/)


The effort by Mormon-minded members of the American government to get the Swiss to extend special treatment to LDS missionaries in their proselytizing campaign to baptize their nation into submission along with the rest of the known Universe hasn't exactly cast Mormonism's persistent prophet/profit peddlers in the best light.

Here's an article from the Swiss press that probably won't be running anytime soon in the LDS-owned "Church News," headlined, "U.S. Lawmakers Criticize Swiss Missionary Ban":

"A group of senators and representatives in the United States is calling on Switzerland to allow Mormon missionaries to continue working in Switzerland after 2012, despite a de facto ban.

"U.S. Senator Mike Crapo is leading an effort on behalf of 14 members of Congress who sent a letter to the Swiss embassy in Washington . . . urging the government to find a way forward for missionaries from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

“'We expect an ongoing dialogue with the Swiss government representatives and US officials to ensure that responsible religious missionaries have the fullest possible opportunity to continue their work abroad with the minimum of bureaucratic hurdles,' Senator Crapo told 'swissinfo.ch.'

"The new regulations stem from a bilateral accord on the free movement of people between Switzerland and the European Union that came into effect in 2002. In effect, this agreement allows European nationals to seek employment in Switzerland while significantly restricting work permits for people from all other countries.

"A decision by the Swiss courts established that missionary work is considered gainful employment and therefore subject to quotas.

"Hope and a Prayer

"The Swiss embassy responded to the request by Congress members--who included Harry Reid, Majority Leader in the Senate--in an October letter offering hope for a possible solution through dialogue and other means.

“'Laws can be amended and regulations can be changed but it will be up to the relevant communities involved to initiate those changes,' Urs Ziswiler, the Swiss ambassador at the time, wrote in the correspondence.

"Ziswiler told 'swissinfo.ch': 'We have several similar cases from other countries and to make an exception for the Mormons would create a precedent.'

"In response to the correspondence, Senator Crapo told 'swissinfo.ch' that he appreciates the invitation to 'continue discussions' to find a way for Mormon missionaries to continue their services. Most Mormon missionaries who come to Switzerland are from American states, including Utah, Missouri, Idaho and Arizona.

"Under an existing transition agreement, a maximum of 80 Mormon missionaries from the U.S. were allowed into Switzerland in 2010, and 50 will be permitted in 2011. As of 2012, there will be no future admissions of missionaries of any denomination from any third party states, according to the Swiss embassy.

"Long History

"In their letter, the members of Congress pointed to the 'special relationship of the LDS [Latter-day Saints] church with Switzerland,' adding that Bern was chosen as the location for the first LDS European temple.

“'Today, there are a substantial number of LDS Church members in the United States who proudly claim their Swiss ancestry. It would be a great tragedy for our two nations if the long standing missionary program of the LDS Church in Switzerland were terminated,' the senators wrote.

"They added that LDS missionaries are in Switzerland as unpaid volunteers performing ecclesiastical duties only and as such do not compete with other workers.

“'On a reciprocal basis, young Swiss members of the LDS Church are able to serve their 24-month missions in the United States without restriction,' they added.

"The Mormon church has a long history in Switzerland dating back to 1850, and the Church of Latter-day Saints certainly wants that tradition to continue. 'We hope a solution can be found that allows missionaries, regardless of their country of origin, to continue to serve the Swiss people,' Michael Purdy, a spokesman for the Utah-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, told 'swissinfo.ch.'

“'In our experience, the Church’s missionaries return home after service in Switzerland with great love and respect for the people, history, and culture of the country.'"

(Karin Kamp, "U.S. Lawmakers Criticize Swiss Missionary Ban," in "swissinfo.ch," 13 December 2010, at: http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/foreign_affairs/US_lawmakers_criticise_Swiss_missionary_ban.html?cid=29015098)
_____


--The Mormon Church Is Called Out In Its Attempt to Circumvent Swiss Law, and Called to Account--

So, let's cut through the smiley-face door approach and get this straight:

Stormin' Mormons have secretly been trying to get the Swiss to allow foreign LDS missionaries to continue to mess with their country, their people and their laws--and the Swiss haven't been playing by the Mormon God's rules.

Time to call in the Danites.

As one account of this bumbling attempt describes it:

"The story [has] leaked out that all 13 Mormon members of the United States Congress sent a strong letter to the Swiss Ambassador to the United States. The 13 letter signers were protesting the Swiss Government’s banning of Mormon Missionaries from that county. . . .

"The one-page letter signed by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) and four other United States Senators and eight House members was sent to Swiss Ambassador Urs Ziswiler and said, 'We earnestly petition the Swiss Government to reconsider its decision and work with us and the LDS Church to find a solution which would permit LDS Missionaries to continue to perform their missionary service in Switzerland as they have done since 1850.'"

(For a copy of the actual letter from the Mormon water-carriers in Congress to the Swiss ambassador, see: http://local.sltrib.com/upload/2010/12/12923537608.19.10%20Ziswiler%20letter.pdf)

"Swiss Ambassador Ziswiler’s letter back to the 13 members of Congress: Thanks, but no thanks. In his letter, the Swiss Ambassador refers to one recent meeting to discuss the situation between high ranking Swiss Government officials and the United States Ambassador to Switzerland Don Beyer, and at least one top Mormon Church leader, a Mr. E. Weidman."

(For a copy of Swiss ambassador Ziswiler's actual reply to the Congressional Mormon Battalion, see: http://local.sltrib.com/upload/2010/12/1292358459letter_.pdf)

"How much other lobbying, regarding their missionaries, has Senate Leader Harry Reid and the other 12 Mormon members of the U.S Congress done before with foreign government leaders?"

Apparently when it comes turning Switzerland into Saintsland, not enough.

This brazen behind-the-scenes effort by Mormons in Congress to employ the auspices of the U.S. government in order to advance the missionary probings of the LDS Church into foreign countries such as Switzerland has raised an enormous red flag and, in fact, has led to demands for a wider U.S. State Department investigation of Mormon, Inc.'s proselytizing practices across the board:

"The group that signed [the letter to the Swiss government] was led by United States Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV). Reid was joined by both United States Senators from Utah, Orrin Hatch (R-UT) and Robert Bennett (R-UT), Senator Michael Crapo (R-ID) and Senator Tom Udall (D-NM).

"There were eight House Members who also signed the letter to the Swiss Government, Jeff Flake (R-AZ), Wally Herger (R-CA), Howard 'Buck' McKeon (R-CA), Mike Simpson (R-ID), Dean Heller (R-NV) and all three House members from Utah: Rob Bishop (R-UT), Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) and Jim Matheson (D-UT). . . .

"Because the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints . . . was in direct contact with officials of a foreign government, and even used a United States Ambassador on its behalf, [it is] hereby request[ed] [that] the United States Department of State conduct a full investigation of all lobbying activities and all other actions taken by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and members of Congress with the Government of Switzerland and all other counties that the Mormon Church is in direct contact with.

"cc:

"The Honorable Hillary Clinton,
Secretary of State

"The Honorable John Kerry,
Chairman, U.S Senate Committee on Foreign Relations

"The Honorable Howard Berman,
Chairman, U.S. House Committee on Foreign Affairs

"The Honorable Barbara Boxer,
Chair, U.S. Senate Select Committee on Ethics

The Honorable Zoe Lofgren,
Chair, U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Standards of Official Conduct"

("Switzerland Throws Out Mormon Missionaries; All 13 Mormon Members of Congress Fight Back," in "Rights: Equal Rights," archived under "Mormon Category," at: http://www.rightsequalrights.com/category/mormons/)

*****


--A Rocky Future for Mormon Missionaries in Places They Aren't Appreciated--

How can the Mormon Church roll forth like a giant stone cut out of a mountain without hands---smashing through national boundaries and filling up the globe--when it's being blocked by some immigration limitation regulation?

The Mormon God's been foiled again--and if Mormonism's front men in Congress have anything to do with it, this has gotta stop.

Next thing ya know, Elohim will be forced by the Feds to give up polygamy and--even worse for the latter-day light-skinned--be pressured by the Gentiles to give the priesthood to Black people.

Stupid laws.



Edited 62 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2011 02:36PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: Gorspel Dacktrin ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 06:51AM

You know, the way he gave the commandment to practice polygamy and then prepared the way for the practice to continue unhindered by governments of men, after seeing the many sacrifices made by faithful Mormon women in obedience to the commandment and...oh...wait. That's right, God just kind of left them hanging on that one too.

I guess the sacrifices of generations of young Mormon missionaries and their families who scrimped and saved to send them on missions to places like Switzerland just wasn't enough. Anyway, what can God do? The Swiss and the EU made a deal. I mean we're talking about high-level government action here. God is, as he says, a god, and everything, but some things are just beyond his pay grade.

I was in Interlaken a while back and cycled past the LDS chapel there on a Sunday morning. I cycled past it a few hours later on my way back. It was a nice, clean, but smallish building...and it was as quiet as a tomb. I think there was one or two cars in the parking lot. Probably the 2-3 active members were inside wondering how to remodel the building to make it into a nice fondue restaurant. ;o)

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Posted by: axeldc ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 07:19PM

You have to love the irony of Mormons crying about "intolerance" as they declare June 2011 "Mormon Hate Month" against gays in the most recent Ensign.

Mormons expect "tolerance" for their sales force, but intolerance against gays around the world who simply want to live their lives in peace free from Mormon theocracy.

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Posted by: faboo ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 08:45AM

"The primary reasons for the limited number of LDS missionaries include a decline in LDS birth rates in the United States, consistently low rates of North American members serving full-time missions (where the bulk of the LDS missionary force originates), and the failure of developing totally self-sufficient missionary manpower in the nations which draw the greatest numbers of missionary resources."

I like how they're basically blaming the members for coming up short. :/

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Posted by: imalive ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 11:42AM

No, that should be LDS missionary FARCE.

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Posted by: AIC ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 12:44PM

How are you?

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 08:55AM

Someone gets it.

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Posted by: Gorspel Dacktrin ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 09:30AM

would really like to see it grow in Switzerland to the point where there's a nice, reliable net cash flow from Swiss members to SLC.

But in reality, so few Swiss are even remotely interested in the Mormon MLM product that the Swiss government should probably reconsider the policy as it relates to Mormons.

The missionaries aren't taking away any jobs from anyone (unless the Swiss like to pay to watch young men go everwhere in twosies wearing identical white shirts).

The missionaries pay rent, buy food and so on and don't draw any form of income from any Swiss businesses.

At the end of the day, the missionaries probably put more money into the Swiss economy than they take out of it.

So, in terms of economics, there's no loss for Switzerland and maybe even a small profit in letting Mormon missionaries loose on the streets. On the other hand, it could be an issue of national pride. No nation wants to be thought of as having a population gullible enough to believe in the nonsense of Mormonism and the sight of Mormon missionaries roaming the streets is a constant reminder that "yes, someone thinks that we are that stupid!"

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Posted by: Leah ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 11:55AM

I seriously doubt the Swiss will make an exception for Mormon missionaries.

Reading through the letter, it looks to me like the Swiss government refused very politely - but it was a refusal nevertheless.

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Posted by: hotwaterblue ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 10:12AM

My older brother served in this soon to be defunct mission. He was there in the mid 60's when you learned the language on site and spent an awful lot of time there. He hated every single minute. Not because of the country, conditions, work etc. But because the pompous a$$ thought he should be in charge of everything, and an Assistant to the MP, and adored by other missionaries as the Mr. Perfect missionary. Instead, he got to tract and bitten by fleas. I think I would have spent a lot of time at the beaches eyeballing the locals and tourists.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 11:15AM

An obscenely wealthy american corporation is utilizing the politicians that it owns to meddle in the internal affairs of another country ?

Where have I heard this before ?

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Posted by: imalive ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 11:43AM

hhhhmmm now that does sound familiar . . . . LOL

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Posted by: american jesus ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 11:41AM

i am actually surprised the church hasn't found a way around this. I was illegally in a south american country for the entire 2 years of my mission. The church sent me there on 60 day tourist visa, expecting my formal visa to come through within 60 days, but it never did.They came through for some in my group but never for me. I almost went to jail a few times but was able to talk my way out of the presence of law enforcement.

How's that for being "honest, true, chaste, benevolent" or "being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law", for that matter?

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 11:57AM

"The Lord is fulfilling His promise..."

The Lord just has problems with math. He's always been like that. Remember, this is the same Lord who thought Noah could fit all the animals on the ark.

The Big Guy should hire an accountant, a census taker/pollster, and an atheist. Then he'd be able to give accurate revelations to mormon profits.

The Big Guy's next still-small-voice communication to Monson: "I hired some experts, and man are you mormons sucking wind! Please predict that you will dwindle to a few thousand diehard fans holed up in a Utah compound within two decades. Thank you. Heavenly Father, over and out."

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 12:33PM

Fred Karger's article was written in December of 2010, and he cc'ed Hillary Clinton and others. Do we know if Clinton et. al. called the mormons in Congress on the carpet for this?

Excerpt from Karger's article (to which Steve Benson linked in the original post):

"Because the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Church) was in direct contact with officials of a foreign government, and even used a United States Ambassador on its behalf, I hereby request the United States Department of State conduct a full investigation of all lobbying activities and all other actions taken by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and members of Congress with the Government of Switzerland and all other counties that the Mormon Church is in direct contact with.

cc:
The Honorable Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State
The Honorable John Kerry, Chairman, U.S Senate Committee on Foreign Relations
The Honorable Howard Berman, Chairman, U.S. House Committee on Foreign Affairs
The Honorable Barbara Boxer, Chair, U.S. Senate Select Committee on Ethics
The Honorable Zoe Lofgren, Chair, U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Standards of Official Conduct"

I would also question Harry Reid's claim that the missionaries are unpaid volunteers.

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Posted by: Bryan O'Neil ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 11:57AM

It's just not the Swiss who have been stopping the stone. The cult tried to establish a branch in my area back in 2000. I told the branch president that it would not work....too many Southern Baptists control everything. He laughed and said "oh you have no idea about this work! It will roll forth like a stone cut without hands as the scripture says...blah, blah...".

Well after eight years the branch folded and left town shortly after the branch president had a heart attack and died. So much for covering the entire earth!

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 12:37PM

The list of diplomats, err, make that Congress Critters of mormon persuasion:


Harry Reid (D-NV)
Orrin Hatch (R-UT)
Robert Bennett (R-UT)
Michael Crapo (R-ID)
Tom Udall (D-NM)
Jeff Flake (R-AZ)
Wally Herger (R-CA)
Howard "Buck" McKeon (R-CA)
Mike Simpson (R-ID)
Dean Heller (R-NV)
Rob Bishop (R-UT)
Jason Chaffetz (R-UT)
Jim Matheson (D-UT)

Do mormons in Congress lobby other nations when it comes to the business of the LDS Church?

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Posted by: LordBritish ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 12:51PM

The Law of Man!? Pish Posh...Joseph Smith would have missionaries there til the end of time! Just tell that to all the married women who were married to other men when he married them!

Since when should articles of faith get in the way of the actual hidden 'truth'. "We have God's seal of approval. We can do whatever we please."

Man's law is nothing in the eyes of God's Law. And it's NOT how you serve...but WHERE.

Paraphrasing, "I have God's authority...you were married under man's law. My law, God's, trumps your law, man's,...now get naked."

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Posted by: Fetal Deity ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 05:39PM

Let's see ... how to get around this one? I predict a new type of Mormon missionary--a "slightly" more aggressive approach to proselyting in Switzerland: Airborne Paratroopers!

(And "D-Day" will come to be known as "The Day of the Danites!")

Thanks for the post!

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Posted by: Merovea ( )
Date: June 12, 2011 06:28PM

Thank you Steve Benson and others for this great information.

It also implies that there are no EU citizens willing to serve missions for this blood sucking Mormon organization!

Norbert Baerlocher says it well "as to when missionary work is concerned, it almost always relates to money!"

Most Europeens are smart and well educated, they KNOW Mormonism is BS!

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Posted by: devilman ( )
Date: June 13, 2011 01:53PM

Sheesh! What the hell's the big deal anyway? It's not like they're restricting anyone's religious freedom to join or belong to the Mormon church. They haven't banned Mormonism in Switzerland, they're just not letting in any non-EU missionaries.

So all the Mormons have to do is replace the 100 or so American missionaries with 100 EU missionaries and ... Ohhh ... OK, now I get why it's such a big deal.

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Posted by: Mateo Pastor ( )
Date: June 13, 2011 02:03PM

...it will be combined in one topic with the other thread on the same subject:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,214935,215086#msg-215086

Both are very enlightening.

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Posted by: devilman ( )
Date: June 13, 2011 02:11PM

Regarding GBH's quote: "A soloist sings the same song again and again. An orchestra repeats the same music. But a speaker is expected to come up with something new every time he speaks. I am going to break that tradition this morning and repeat in a measure what I have said on another occasion."

Back when GBH was still prez I was TBM and decided to read a book that was a collection of many of his talks over the years. I really enjoyed reading it at the time but then, after I finished, I had the saddening realization that none of his (then) current talks were original. They were ALL rehashes of talks he'd given prior to '95 - '98 timeframe. I don't just mean they were the same topics, I mean the stories, quotes, poems - all of it was the same. That example quoted on this thread was hardly the first time he'd done that. Then I realized it wasn't just him that was doing it.

Oh, and actually, those soloists ARE expected to learn/write some new songs after their current tour or whatever. Yeah, they can play the same setlist for one tour and maybe keep the same "best hits" for later tours but if they aren't adding SOMETHING new over time then their fan base will definitely move on.

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