So I was talking to a close relative about church and he mentioned that recently he was sitting in priesthood and as an activity they went around the room and each had to share what they did for a living and about their family.

Everyone is doing really really well. They were mostly in their 30's and said they are CEOs and computer programmers, etc, (no one like me in retail, or factories). They were all married with great families, perfect kids. Everyone seems to have lots of money, and they are all really really really smart.

Now I come from this same area and know people around the county and all my friends and co-workers (blue collar, pink collar) hate going to church, they hate the parade of wonderfulness. So my question is why can't mormons attract poor people to their meetings more? Does the leadership even care about ordinary people?

It is so ingrained in the Mormon church that righteous people are blessed (especially financially), and the wicked are punished. If you are poor, it is probably your fault, so they would rather look down on the poor instead of help. Helping is tantamount to admitting that Gawhd doesn't bless the righteous.

Many Mormons are really smart because you have to be to talk yourself into believing it. For all of their big talk and supposed success, remember they drank the Kool Aid.

Mormonism is a prosperity gospel, so if you have money you must be more righteous. If you haven’t received monetary blessings, God doesn’t like you as much. That’s why the happy face is virtue signaling. Who doesn’t want to hang out with the cool kids?

I think the church is reaching out to poor people in places in Nigeria. And telling them to pay up.

It depends on the ward. Some wards help the poorer members because they want to. Others do it out of obligation. What does it take to change the vibe? Could you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2018 08:54PM by babyloncansuckit.

That is not my experience. In all of the wards I have EVER been a part of, the leadership cared very much for the "ordinary" and poor people. If people were out of work, ward leadership tired to find employment for them. I have seen first-hand ward leadership provide food, clothes, MONEY, employment, and housing for those in need. Unfortunately all too often though, people took advantage of this kindness extended from ward leadership.

Growing up in my home ward, my father (as a Bishop and as a regular ward member) was known for personally paying for missions for those whose family couldn't afford it for their kid. Many times my father would pay the bill for a catered ward picnic of dinner. Once my father (as a Bishop) rented a house (using his personal funds and ward $$$) for a family of eight. After six months or so, my father realized that the father of the family was a hustler and gave him a 30-day notice to vacate. Upon leaving the house, the father of eight who had been assisted for months, filled the sinks and toilets in the house with cement before departing.

My father, as "leadership" and an ordinary member treated the "ordinary people" of the ward better than he treated his own family.

My take is that if all your friends and co-workers hate going to church and hate the parade of wonderfulness, the problem lies with THEM, not the ward leadership.

Sounds like your dad was a great guy and a very generous bishop.

Somehow my experience does not include this “parade of
Wonderfulness”.

Hating going to church is something that I expect to be supported at RFM—-not judged for.

Hmmm, I have to wonder what part of the world you are from. Or...if you are wearing some glasses with a particular shade of rose.

There are people in the world who for one reason or another, mental stability, capacity etc, that will always need to be cared for. These people should take advantage of the church. That's what tithing should go to and would go to if they were truly following the teachings of Christ.

I have found very few instances of the poor taking advantage of the church. 99.9% of the time it has more to do with the capabilities of those in need.

Yeah. I reported Jaxon's comment. If I want to be told that the Mormon church is a parade of wonderfulness I'll hike on over to an LDS site. Maybe he was being sarcastic?

I think your brush is too broad. I know a number who do just that.

I think the bigger issue is that Mormons are broke. They've given 10% when the average charitable annual donation is 3.6% total. LDS members on average are just financially tapped out and time sunk in the religion.

What is left to reach out from?

A lot of discretion is given to individual bishops for how much help to give out, technically there is plenty available but how much is given varies greatly ward by ward. And I have known people who have been helped immensely by the church welfare system in times of need. I’ve also known people who weren’t. Now, as to why many active members are, or seem to be, well off is really because they do dang good job of alienating anyone that’s not doing well for themselves. Mormonism is a prosperity gospel, whether they admit it or not, and there is so much pressure to achieve financial wealth, or at least appear that you have (usually through significant debt, no savings, and precarious finances) because your financial situation is literally tied to your worthiness. Working class people who can’t or simply (smartly) won’t jeopardize their financial security to appear wealthy are made to feel unworthy and unwelcome and either leave the church or become inactive. Not to mention, you tell someone who’s barely scraping by that they’re expected to just hand off 10% automatically, they’ll probably find their way to the exit sooner than later.

In the mission field, probably anywhere in the world now, the poor are the only ones who can be suckered into sitting still and listening to the missionaries.

And the missionaries can find so few poor people to teach, that they seek opportunities to do service and chase after 'inactives.'

Well, they did reach out to impoverished Africans, but then they demanded money.

Those are the people that show up to church. The poorer ones tend to be too busy, or are too ashamed of not making their tithing.

The church also facilitates proud behavior, if you ever listen to a sunday school class, you'll get plenty of people showing off what they know. They aren't discovering anything in these lessons. Everyone has heard it all before, they just want to show how smart/righteous/humble they are.

>>they hate the parade of wonderfulness

Low income people are not going to voluntarily go to a place where they feel marginalized. Many have to work on Sunday, or work 2-3 jobs, or have both spouses working. The Mormon church frowns on all of that. They are also less able to fork over 10% of their income since most of it is needed for necessities.

Poor people are SMARTER. Poor people have nothing left to give. No (extra) TIME. Poor people sometimes live on the edge, or at least enjoy simpler/ different pursuits. Don't have time or inclination to give/ waste HUNDREDS of pointless hours and THOUSANDS/ Tens of thousands of dollars to a unacountable, corrupt, blaspheming, laughingstock of a SCC (so 'called' "church").

People are givers and the LDSC is a taker. They TAKE people's tithing/ money... EVEN IF THEY DON'T HAVE IT (In This Lifetime) [BDT - before death time]

It's not the people's job to find money (and waste it on TMC) any more than it is for the "church" find "poorer" people.

"... why can't mormons [Mormonism] attract poor people to their meetings more? Does the leadership even care about ordinary people?

Care? Hahaahaha
Only about itself baby

Ordinary people are smarter than that. Some can see right through it.

You do the math: 1 wealthier family (and lots of kids supporting TSCC) or thousands or your poor people.

It must be true as stated by all the above posts, ordinary people are marginalized and can't afford the tithing. Working on Sundays is also a necessity for many.

But being an active mormon is a nice thing if you can afford it (and tolerate policies).

anono this week Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It must be true as stated by all (not "all"; not mine) the above posts, [that] ordinary people are marginalized and can't [/don't want to] afford (the?) tithing. Working on Sundays is also a necessity for many.
>
> But being an active mormon is a nice thing if you can afford it (and tolerate policies).

WHAT POLICIES? We don't teach that...

LIVING on Sundays is ALSO a necessity for many.

WHAT is a "nice thing".
How is it nice?
How nice is it?
Panently nice?
Consistently nice?
Predictably nice?
Guaranteed nice?
Honestly (nice)?

If you can afford what?
Do you fancy that to truly afford living above the pottery line you must first [be forced to] give a LARGE sum to your "spirit-Lord" (like your landlord but in not real SPIRIT only) so you could enter the abyss of the only way to die?

That by paying your "leaders" a ten % tax/ cut of your income (no matter the outcome) for something you'll never see, or need, or be able to own, before you light your way, gas up for work, or put threads on - or food in - your skin?

Is that some way to live? Backward?

Giving up ALL control, ALL power, ALL free-agency and ALL natural and edifying feelings, thoughts, and practices because it's nice tolerating policies, least they be your own?

Rich or Poor, I ain't dead yet.
Mormonism would kill me.
Do you feel me?
Can't fool me.

I can't tolerate (LDSays God's) hateful "policies". I "can't afford" being an active - or passive (or agressive) - moron.I can't!

M@t

As mentioned, poorer people often have to work on Sundays, and many times, both spouses have to work in order to provide the basics of food and shelter.

They CAN reach out to poorer people.
They just don't want to.
Not enough tithing coming in from them, and they're just not the "right kind of people" (wink, nod).

As others have commented, though, I'd bet real money that the crowd bragging in the OP's meeting aren't all doing as well as they claim to be. Putting on a fake air of "success and happiness" is part and parcel of mormonism. No doubt several in that group are doing just that.

That too far.

They can't reach them.

Get them a camera and a news media crew and they will.
Missionary Efforts, and to make themselves look good.
"Look at us! We're soooOOOooo good and caring."

When I was a member there were a couple of families living the Mormon Dream,the Mother was always mentioning in RS how grateful she was that she did the right thing and married in the Temple etc etc,any poor wee woman listening to that week in week out must have despaired,one of these perfect morons was so pleased that her husband was a CEO,one Sunday I arrived at Church and this sister was crying in the hall,her husband had been made redundant,she said she had barely slept since they got the news,that Christmas was cancelled for the family and she was sorry that no Christmas cards would be sent to members,absolutely pathetic,her Husband was an OK Guy,he did charitable things quietly.

They have no money to contribute to the "Prosperity gospel"

from what I've seen and experienced, most men who become bishops become assholes. I had a really good friend who was great until he became a bishop.

The ward I live in is a low middle income group of people. We have a seminary teacher and the new bishop builds kitchen cabinets (his father's company), a plumber. The engineer moved out of the ward. They are the nicest ward I've ever lived in.

The fact that they talked about this in PH was in VERY POOR TASTE. Make anyone who wanted to show up feel like never showing up again!

The wealthy like this ward you talk about don't want to be around the poor as they might become one, just like if someone gets a divorce often everyone shuns them including not mormons. I've seen it many times. Your bad luck might rub off on them. The ONE PERSON I thought wouldn't abandon me when my husband left, I haven't heard from her since she found out over 20 years ago.

When my wife abandoned me over a year ago, I almost ended my life. I could have really used some support. I’m not necessarily “poor”, but I don’t really fit into my ward’s demographics (relatively wealthy neighbors). In 18 months, I’ve had FOUR visits from ward members. FOUR. I live one small block from the church. Four visitors, 18 months. Bunch of sanctimonious assholes — they can all suck it.

They say pay 10% and you will magically get out of poverty.

It's the result of the following premises:

1. If you're living the Gospel you will be rewarded with blessings.

2. If you're not living the Gospel, you're doing evil.

3. Avoid the very appearance of evil.

I'll leave it to you to draw the inference.