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Posted by: forgotmyname ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 10:44AM

A Facebook friend posted a link to this very strange article:

There's a lot to digest (and roll my eyes at) here, but after reading this I think I finally hit on what the root of the problem is for Mormons:

Someone else's religion is none. of. your. business.

That's what Mormons don't seem to get, including the author. Your uncle, your parents (unless you're a minor in their care), your adult kids, your friends, complete strangers -- their religious beliefs are nobody's business but theirs. If I want to change religions every single week, that's literally none of your business.

The correct response isn't "simply love them," it's "treat them exactly the same as you did before."

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 11:19AM

Yeah, but what’s the point of being proud of your mormonism if you can’t slut shame women with bare shoulders and shun people who aren’t in lockstep with you!

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 11:55AM

They still hammer in the concept that people leave because they feel offended. That's how every article of "why members leave the church" begins. That's their way of patting themselves on the back believing that it has nothing to do with the "wonderful" church leaders and their divine church organization. No, it's just that a member has thin skin because Bishop Asshat is a sort of a "misguided" jerk and every faithful member knows that and should look the other way when it comes to his shenanigans.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2018 11:58AM by messygoop.

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Posted by: mr. jones ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 12:01PM

Church is just another church.
Sitting in church while openly admitting this leaves makes congregation treat you as defective project.
Withdrawing name from record stops contact from people who treat you as defective project.

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Posted by: Leaving ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 02:04PM

messygoop Wrote: "They still hammer in the concept that people leave because they feel offended."

I WAS Joseph Smith.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: September 15, 2018 01:30AM

because somebody whom I had liked and considered as a friend actually reamed me a new one over a lesson I had sweated blood over. I spent hours on it, brought in all sorts of confirmations of the basic point from a number of ecumenical writers who agreed on the same premise.

I thought I had done a bang-up job on it. I delivered it enthusiastically. I got the sisters to divide into groups to mull certain points, and report back about their conclusions. It was the kind of project that made every grow, at least a little. Most of the sisters got a lot out of it.

I won't go into the really gruesome part where the RS Prez ripped me a new one a few days later. Suffice it to say that I never taught another lesson for TSCC, and shortly after, I wrote my "I'm Outta Here!" letter.

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Posted by: mikemitchell ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 07:22AM

"They still hammer in the concept that people leave because they feel offended."

Which is ridiculous to keep saying. People are offended everywhere, in jobs at school, etc. It is human nature that there are jerks everywhere. People don't leave because they are offended, they put up with others because what they are involved in is important. But when someone realizes that the Book of Mormon is bullshit and the church is not true, there is no reason to put up with the jerks who are offending anymore. People leave because they finally accept the truth, that the church isn't real.

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 07:38PM

messygoop Wrote:
> They still hammer in the concept that people leave
> because they feel offended.

What's so stupid is that they actually believe that if I thought for one moment that this organization held my eternal future in their hands that I'd let some jerk take that away from me.

I was offended lots of times. I send, "Jerk! Idiot!" and I carried on. I wouldn't let a fool push me out.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 12:13PM

Wife beaters ask the same thing. What’s her problem?

Sure, I’ll come back. Just stop lying, manipulating, and controlling. Zebras and their stripes.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2018 12:30PM by babyloncansuckit.

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Posted by: koriwhore ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 12:16PM

That MORmONs are NOT offended upon learning Joseph's Myth sent his followers off on overseas missions so he could rape their wives and teenage daughters, speaks volumes about their morality.

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Posted by: angela ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 12:42PM

Why people don't return?

Because it's false.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 12:47PM

I thought they never "left it" alone?

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Posted by: sparty ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 01:11PM

While there was plenty to dislike about that article, I do think the author was on the right track, and delivered a message that a lot of Mormons need to hear: people don't want to be projects - if church members can't respect that, it's better to just stay away. If there were more Mormons like the author, I might have gone back. Since he is the extreme minority, I resigned and never looked back.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 01:30PM

Basically, people leave because they are offended, and stay away because members continue to offend them by acting offended that they left.

I agree with OP, one's religion (or lack, thereof) is nobody's business but their own.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 01:58PM

Well, La Deeee Daaaaah!

Tiny hints at the ugly history, and Joseph Smith's "mis-steps" mixed in for a faux verity while the major focus is still on people being offended. Show love show love show love he says. How original. Poppies. That'll fix 'em.

So instead of Joseph we now have the "very lovely and praiseworthy" Oaks, Bednar and Wendy the Wonderful along with daft old Nelson? At least Joseph was colorful if nothing else. Didn't bore anyone to death and knew how to make them glad to give up their money. Does no one have charisma anymore? Maybe that would get some of the offended people back.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 02:27PM

So the alcoholic trys to dry out, falls off the wagon, and hits the bottle. But he feels bad for his lost drinking buddies.

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Posted by: midwestanon ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 03:47PM

Although the author does strike me as sanctimonious, his tone seems different than the typical ‘outreach to the lost sheep’ type. Just verbalizing ideas about being accommodating to those who aren’t zealots about the rules of Mormonism is progress.

I think he articulated, in some ways, what frustrates a lot of us about people who have their head up their ass when they are trying to get inactives to become actives or ExMormons to become Mormon again.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 04:00PM

One more Mormon who doesn't "GET IT." I commend his effort, but he's still way off target.

It's my observation that most people are leaving the Mormon Church because it's not true. Very simple. Not true. None of the claims are factual. Period.

The crux of the falsehood, of course, is the Book of Mormon which is fiction about imaginary people, places and things and plagiarized other works, including the Bible. There are no such people. No Lamanites, Nephites, etc. Never were. Making little figures and drawing pictures of imaginary people, places and things and putting murals in the temples does not make imaginary people become real. Not possible. Total fiction.

If the claims are not factual, everything they do is impotent. It's all void.

Take your power back and own it and enjoy your life without artificial intrusions that are totally unnecessary.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2018 09:11PM by SusieQ#1.

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Posted by: oregon ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 09:44PM

That is why we left. How can I defend this fraud to my kids? Friends? I have an absolute obligation to protect my kids from FRAUD PERIOD. EVERYONE SHOULD.

Everyone that is in the church and knows or refuses to seek the truth are cowards and accomplices in the fraud.

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Posted by: midwestanon ( )
Date: September 15, 2018 12:11AM

I know a lot of people who took issue with the way the church acts - globally or locally- and fell into inactivity or left, and the found out it was all bullshit after the fact. That or they never really believed anyway but went for whatever reason, probably family.

To a TBM that may seem like a variation on ‘I was offended’ or something, but not wanting to attend a church that has historically marginalized various groups of people seems as reasonable a reason to leave as any.

Just offering a different perspective. Personally, I don’t know that the claims the church makes about its truth or it being the true church were really the initial catalyst for my disbelief. I just knew it made me miserable, and no one liked how many questions I had, including me.

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 04:05PM


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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 08:47PM

I never have wanted to go back. It was so freeing to leave, to finally realize it was false. I had my answers to all the questions I'd had for years.

The mormons don't need a list of how to treat the exmormons like this guy gave. Just treat them like they are a human with no ulterior motives. I'm not trying to convert them out of the church, so please give me the respect of being an intelligent human being who doesn't believe as they do. They just can't believe we DO NOT BELIEVE.

I didn't have a faith crisis when I left. I started having a faith crisis before I even met my future husband and it continued on for years. I didn't enjoy getting together for activities or ward dinners. I don't like groups. I don't like to socialize. It was a relief not to any longer.

I'm more at peace in my life than I've been ever. Leaving the lds church was one of the things I needed to do before I could come to that point.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 06:43PM

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
I agree. It's total freedom. I can live in peace and harmony with a World View with no fear. I am relieved of oppressive guilt and shame, also. I have no regrets.
I'm a woman who owns my own power. I will not relinquish it ever again.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 11:48PM

I didn't leave because I was offended. Mormons chose to offend me because I left.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: September 14, 2018 11:56PM


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Posted by: Leaving ( )
Date: September 15, 2018 12:55AM

That is better chiastic structure than anything found in the BoM.

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Posted by: Justin ( )
Date: September 15, 2018 05:45AM

I left because people I thought were my friends kicked me out of the church because they didn't like my religious opinions. If they had left me alone I would still be a member.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: September 15, 2018 12:14PM

The author never did address the all-critical issue of mormon narcissism. I will never go back to being a member of the church. But I still feel like I have the right to some closure and justice that will never occur, only because it would hurt someone else's over-bloated pride.

This is extremely unlikely to ever happen, but here is what I expect. So the Bishop was probably in his forties at the time and is maybe in his seventies now. He and others who were involved at the time are probably still alive now, somewhere on earth. Have the church use their databases to find them, where ever they are, and call them in for questioning now. Show them how their own fuck-ups from thirty years ago affected others, and what the results were, from what they've done. Tell them that they owe myself and certain others, apologies and maybe even some kind of restitution in cases where there were gross injustices. If they don't cooperate now, then excommunicate them and let them know that they're banned from church membership for the rest of their lives or until they make the proper apologies and possible restitution, whichever comes first. Tell that former bishop in his seventies that if he comes back in his nineties, wanting to join the church before he dies, that if he hasn't taken the steps that were requested of him, that he will probably die being a non-member. Don't let him off the hook if he doesn't cooperate. Do the same for others who were involved in the injustices. If the culpable former bishop or culpable others have left the church themselves, then the person with the grievances needs to receive a written apology from the church on church letterhead, apologizing for the injustices on behalf of that former bishop or culpable others who church leaders protected at the time. This might sound unreasonable to some people. But it's no more insane than mormonism itself is insane.

If the church would make this kind of good faith effort, I might remove them from the category of cult, and put them in to the category of churches that are just doing their best to make this world a better place for all of us. I still wouldn't join them again. But there is no hope for the church because they believe they did these things (major fuck-ups) while acting in the name of God. What higher level of narcissism could possibly exist, than that? There is no hope for these people, nor for their church. No amount of friendshipping nor love can fix things until my specific grievances and those of others, are addressed and resolved with fairness. When a church leader says in General Conference " those who have left the church, if we've offended you, we're sorry" (I heard them do that once), all it does is piss me off even more. That's a pathetic, token effort that means nothing when so much more could be done and they choose not to do it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2018 12:25PM by azsteve.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: September 15, 2018 11:24PM

Can you say false doctrine ?
I knew you could.

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Posted by: grendel ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 06:11PM

The author dances around things like disturbing history, etc. but never does he say that there are facts such as lack of Jewish DNA in Native Americans, many statements in BOM that cannot possibly be true, BOA evidence, etc. We could go on for awhile with these evidences but the bottom line is that TSCC is verifiably a man made organization disguised as J. Smith's bastardized view of Christianity.

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Posted by: Afraid of Mormons ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 08:26PM


Is that what I felt when I found out that the bishop's ugly high school senior son molested my little 11-year old girl, while she was sleeping in her sleeping bag at a church campout? And then, the bishop threatened all the kids who heard her screaming, and who witnessed what was happening, that they would be punished if they told anyone.

Is "offended" the feeling I got, when the Mormon leaders told me that I and my children will forever be the possessions of a thug who beat me (and others), because of a silly throat-slitting pseudo marriage ritual? My assailant was never punished, allowed to marry two more women in the temple, given eternal possession of my children (by second husband, several years later). I was shunned and blamed for the divorce.

Was I merely "offended" when I found out the whole Mormon religion is a hoax, and I had been paying money for big business and malls, and donating my time to perpetuating the lies and hurting others?

"Offended" is not in my vocabulary.

I resigned to protect my children from Mormon abuse, which prompted me to find out how to escape from the temple, also, which led me to find out the Truth.

I left for two reasons. I would have left for either single reason. I will never go back, for the same reasons.

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Posted by: Void K. Packer ( )
Date: September 16, 2018 09:15PM

I dunno. Maybe it has something to do with every single thing of any substance being a lie along with emotional and financial extortion? What a puzzler.

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