has anyone here ever asked the tour guides (or any GA type) why the signs are on the SL temple?

any response or explanation given?

I don't know anything about any occult signs on the SL temple, but their existence wouldn't surprise me.

During the time when Joseph Smith was inventing his new religion in the 1800s, in American culture at large there was enormous interest in all things which were generally in this same category--including mediumship, "animal magnetism" (a.k.a. hypnotism), psychometry of many types, seances, etc.

"Occult signs," to me, would indicate that Joseph Smith was trying to appeal to the avant-garde as well as the (by the standards of the time) lower social classes.

I suspect that cult signs (and the whole temple ritual in general) were brought into the mormon culture to make it a richer-feeling tradition. Much like L.R.Hubbard did with scientology, Joseph Smith sought to make the church more real-sounding by bringing in a lot of detail that lends credibility to the story because it is so detailed no-one could have possibly made it all up.

Unlike L.R.Hubbard, Joseph Smith stole a lot of material from other sources, like the masons.

I must admit that the symbols make the temple more interesting even though I know it is all a scam. Mormons do believe that the masonic tradition was more true than false so it is no surprise that the symbols used were the same.

I create video-game environments and this technique of borrowing art to make your world seem richer is used over and over again. Of course you can make up your own symbols but they don't have the same impact as the ones people have already know about.

Think about it, if I were to create a throne room for a satanic-worshiper it should have some of the symbols we all agree on as being a part of satan-worship; like the sign of the goat, the pentagram, heavy candelabras, and other devices that help the viewer feel the purpose of the room.

Of the buildings in temple square that I admire (from a weird cult perspective) I like the Visitor's Center the best. You know - the one with the giant Jesus statue in the star-painted celestial room. To me this room serves the same purpose of the Pantheon in Rome (and the Notre-Dame Cathedral for that matter). These are structures that were built to inspire a certain set of feelings to the people who visited them. Feelings of pride in being a part of something greater (like an empire), feeling small but a vital part of the whole creation - that sort of thing.

The Pantheon is a good example of using similar symbols that were all stolen from elsewhere - the Greeks in that example. There is nothing original about the gods presented in the Pantheon since they were all Greek in origin. The key difference is that the Romans took it a step further by creating the world's largest cement dome. It was meant to be a mind-blowing scene...stepping into this huge dome surrounded by the gods standing in the heavens. It would feel familiar since the Greek gods were well known but different because of the new dome the likes that no-one had ever seen before. Imagine how it must have felt to a Roman citizen to see that for the first time? You probably do know how that feels because a TBM stepping into the visitor's center feels something similar.

praydude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suspect that cult signs (and the whole temple
> ritual in general) were brought into the mormon
> culture to make it a richer-feeling tradition.

I think that's a very good possibility. Likely, even.

And what's ironic about it, is that many of the cult signs they used were from Masonry, which had done the *exact same thing* a few centuries earlier. Something Smith didn't know.

This is a great post to explain the emotional connection to the occult symbols and how someone can feel connected to the group through the rituals and symbols. Very interesting. Thank you.

In the late 1990s a tornado appeared in Salt Like City (it never happens) and blew the window out of the visitor center in front of the Christ statue and the blew the doors off the tabernacle. I find it extremely interesting the Greg Olson wrote about the Nephilim and the fallen sons of God at the same time. I believe he was wrong about Jesus ever appearing to Joseph Smith, but he believed the leader of NCCG, who is wrong about everything on his website, and his church is just a glorified Mormonism stuck in occult powers.

anonthegreat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the late 1990s a tornado appeared in Salt Like
> City (it never happens)...

Actually, Utah averages two tornadoes per year, with a category F2 or stronger tornado (like the one in 1999 you referred to) forming on average once every seven years.

So, rarer than, say Oklahoma? Yep.
Never happens? Nope.

Oops.

I was told they were merely innocently decorative with no accultic intent. Never could quite understand why they continue to be used after the connections to the occult were pointed out.

More Masonic than occult (if you can see them, are they hidden?)

Anyway, Heber C. Kimball said that the Endowment was a restoration of the Masonic ceremony, JS being a big restorer and all. He also restored boinking lots of women. But I digress, again.

As I remember, the bronze doors of the DC temple had an array of the symbols. Don't know if they are still there. I don't think they have been used since.

I did a brief search of the symbols on the DC temple and it looks like they are still there.

Wikipedia has a nice article on the SLC temple and the symbols that were used in that building.

I wonder if the art and design direction were better if more people would have bought into the cult more?

The mormon symbols seem rather pedestrian...

You Too? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More Masonic than occult (if you can see them, are
> they hidden?)
>
> Anyway, Heber C. Kimball said that the Endowment
> was a restoration of the Masonic ceremony, JS
> being a big restorer and all. He also restored
> boinking lots of women.

The statements of MORmON ASSpostHOLE self appointed experts on religion and culture are both comical and grossly errant.

AS IF the Masonic ritual needed to be restored, AS IF Christianity needed to be restored .......AS IF the Masonic lodge was pro Christian !!!!!! STUPID ASS MORmONS !!!!!

I'm often surprised that modern Mormons have no idea how much influence Freemasonry had on Joseph Smith from the very earliest stages.

The Book of Mormon is full of thinly veiled allusions to the issues and controversies that raged through upstate New York in the 1820s, during the Anti-Masonry movement--particularly in the wake of the tell-all book published by William Morgan around 1826. Secret combinations, corrupt judges, the use of the word "anti" prefix in weird places, the obsession with names that use (at least phonetically) the name Morgan, with just one or two letters changed (Mormon, Moron, Moroni, AMoron (think williAMMORgAN) and so on.) If anyone doubts that Joseph would have been obsessed with Freemasonry the way that everyone else in the region was (just prior to the Book of Mormon being written and published), just recall that Lucinda Morgan, William Morgan's widow, became one of Joseph Smith's plural wives.

Then recall the fact that Joseph Smith was formally inducted into Freemasonry in Illinois shortly before he got the endowment "revelation" (essentially crudely copying much of the Freemasonic lodge initiation rituals--just think about the word "initiation" here.)

All of the top leaders were Masons. Brigham Young used to pose for photos proudly wearing his compass & square pin.

The whole temple thing is hugely influenced by Freemasonic symbols. Aprons, beehives, the handshakes, the "Five Points of Fellowship". It's a wonder that Joseph got away with such blatant copying. (Or maybe he didn't, if you consider what the whole Carthage incident may have really been about.)

Pervert MORmON founder Joseph Smith was grasping at straws when he started his MORmON scam religion, ANYTHING that might lend him some credibility ......that he so completely lacked.

Did you know that Pervert Joe endorsed Muhammad as a true prophet of God at one point. Joe had also declared via his BoM that anyone who denies the divinity of Christ is of the devil. Muhammads book of scripture, The Koran, says Christ is not divine. See any epic problem /conflict there ?????

pervert Joe Smith was grasping at straws!!!! at anything and everything around https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVqr0SgKTck

I don't think JS is on record as having said anything about Islam--other than in 1838, when he declared he would be a modern-day Mohammed, presumably leading Mormon armies to conquer the world.

But BY got closer to Mohammed. Both JoD and Teachings of the Prophet Brigham Young have him saying that for several centuries Islam was the closest to "truth" of all the world's religions. The reason wasn't that Mohammed was a prophet in an Old Testament or Mormon sense but rather that Judaism and Christianity had gone astray and Islam remained nearest to the original faith.

Let me know if JS said more about Islam. It would be good to know.

When we believe the occult origins of the fallen sons of God created Mormonism using the occult powers of God, then we also have a great theory of the origins of Islam and the origins of Koran, and quickly, the world makes perfect sense to know good and evil ideas by using reason to figure out the mess.

https://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites/sinister-sites-temple-square-utah/


This guy covers the symbolism if you’re looking for the dark stuff.

The symbol of the goat was used by Jesus to represent all the ideas of the goats that will eventually be destroy by reason. Those who love God's power will be drawn into the occult. Those who love reason and God's Character, will be drawn to be poor in spirit and enter the first heaven as mortals, continue into the "soul world" in the second heaven, waiting or the resurrection into the third heaven. Or, like Abraham and Israel, they will be reincarnated into mortal bodies during the third temple era to be translated into eternal life without any physical death.

Unfortunately for us, throughout history the goats and sheep ideas have contended with each other based on different conflicting assumptions about power. A goat is harmless as well as a sheep in eternity, but the goats will discover Lucifer has lied to them when they figure out the real Cosmic War by thinking deeper about the Biblical ideas. But it will be by freewill and not power forces.

Then the brain of reason will fix everything instead of the idea of the survival of the fittest based on power assumptions the world will use the Golden Rule. Reason will tear down the mental pyramid structure like the flood covered all the ancient pyramid structures on earth that used occult power to provide water and electricity for the people to be slaves of the pyramid philosophy. Third temple will be built, and translation with reason will be like death is today. The world is not going to end like the religions and theologians claim. Yahweh is in control of good and evil, and soon, the evil will be removed by reason and not by power.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2018 01:50PM by anonthegreat.

You have great material for the improv

These ideas are not anywhere else on the earth. They have been privately investigated without a public forum. They are not based on visions, audible revelations from God, or miracles. Reason and valid evidence rules.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2018 05:25PM by anonthegreat.

As you subscribe to random access reality there is no reason to give your words any credence. Word salad pretending at reality.

What you assert without evidence is to be dismissed without evidence.

I have confronted these assertions on the other thread.

Up the carpeted steps I went from being anointed, garmented and re-named to join my Dad in the Garden Room for my endowments. First thing I notice is the upside down pentagram on the walls of the SLC temple. Whoa! Huh? What?

But my Dad is there, dressed to kill, or at least pretend to. So I'm okay with it all because, well, Dad. Can't wait to have the heavens opened and the eternal secrets revealed. And Mom on the other side of the aisle with the veil. Huh?

Had to look over at the walls again. Yup. Upside down pentagons. ????? And me? Elias! Why did I get such a special name? I must be better than I thought.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And me? Elias! Why did I
> get such a special name? I must be better than I
> thought.

Little did you know that everyone who went through that day got the same special name!

I know. Millions of people had gone through the temple so far and *I* get the name Elias! Why didn't the bells go off then? The brainwashing was good.

The upside down pentagram has only been associated with Stan for the last hundred years or so. Before that, it was associated with Masons and also as a symbol of protection.

Interesting. At the time I only knew it as a sign of the evil occult club of Stan. I was wondering for a minute as I sat there if the Ouiga boards were next, haha.

Thank you for that clarification. A lot of people simply assume that Occult = Satanic When in reality a lot of those symbols are just borrowed from much older traditions. The pentagram and inverted pentagram are occult but neither have meanings that have anything to do with the devil, until later on as you mentioned.

It's like the swastika, a benevolent symbol used by various cultures for thousands of years...and now people only think of Hitler and Nazis when they see it, even though it was used for less than 2 decades by the Nazis. Try wearing a swastika pendant as a Hindu, Navajo or Buddhist and see what happens. ;o)

Funny thing is that the commies used the up-pointing pentagram (colored solid red) the whole time they were busy painting entire nations red with the blood of tens of millions of dissidents, counterrevolutionaries, Kulaks, wrongthinkers and so on...and everyone is just fine with up-pointed red stars. lol.

I guess asking for a little consistency in a crazy world is...well...crazy.

I doubt TSSC will acknowledge they are of the occult. They have a hard time accepting Joseph's Masonic symbols to anything other than inspiration. His entire religion was plagiarized, stolen or borrowed.

The standard apologetic line on this is that all of these things were part of the original perfect church. After the great apostasy, the Freemasons, secret societies and other groups held on to some of them, but didn't really understand them.

They were only restored to their full glory when the amazing wunderkind Joe Smith appeared on the scene and got everything back as it should be based on his direct pipeline of revelation from Gawd.

To which I typically respond by asking:

"So in which context do bloody penalty oaths involving the acting out of the manner in which a person will be physically executed for revealing secret passwords, handshakes, symbols and signs make more sense? Do they make sense in a subversive secret society that is seeking to build up a secret network for the purpose of secretly manipulating institutions for the profit and benefit of members of the secret society? Or...do they make more sense in the context of worshiping a supposedly omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God who presumably would never have any need for secret passwords, handshakes and such to get things done or to determine who is worthy to get into heaven?"

I think the answer is pretty obvious. Apologists usually change the subject at this point and pretend like my question never was heard.

Of course the next obvious conclusion as to why Joe actually introduced these bloody oaths of secrecy, along with passwords and secret handshakes is that this was part and parcel of the secret (not sacred) polygamy club that Joe had formed at the same time in Nauvoo, with prominent initiates including luminaries such as Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball and the rest of the secret harem gang.

While all of these men were practicing polygamy and getting multiple wives in ceremonies in the temple, all with the accompanying oaths of secrecy, they were publicly denying that any such thing was happening at all. Joe went so far as to destroy William Law's newspaper print shop when William Law had the audacity to simply report the actual truth about what was really going on.

This is Mormon history that is obvious and undeniable...and yet Mormons continue to pretend that it's just not there. "What? Who? Can't see it. Nope. Not there. Never happened. I feel so much better when I say it never happened."

Thanks for all your contributions, they were very informative.

I hope this will clear things the next time someone is curious / asks' starts a new thread.

We saw some pretty strange things last year, but it wasn't at temple square. Our daughter and son in law were thinking of moving to a newer house. We looked at a beautiful, large square footage home in the south part of the Salt Lake Valley. In the yard were a couple of benign statues of monks. In the house were some Rosary beads draped around a statue. Ok, so far so good. The room that was an office had beautiful office furniture and decorations in it. But then, I noticed something a little strange: there was wallpaper borders all along the bottom of all four walls. It was a dark background with...skulls every couple of inches apart on the background. The things that make you go hmmm...

I was having lunch in the Joseph Smith Memorial Building and was pointing out to the staff the pentagrams, sunstones, other pagan symbols in the buildings in Temple Square. They were like "oh cool."

Backstory: my woman is a Wicca, which is both her belief and business (she owns an enchantments store). She credits Mormonism's roots in magic and naturalism as a large part of reason she gets a ton of orders from Utah and why she doesn't get harassed for her beliefs here, unlike most other conservative Christian places. Witchcraft is big with urban hipsters these days, so Mormons out in flyover states like Utah seem to appreciate being associated with that.

Now, you will get escorted out by the Temple Square mall cops if you point out the same symbols and ask if that Mormons are devil worshippers and baby sacrificers. Don't blame them for that reaction because that is the same grief my woman gets from other conservative Christians.

No, see, no matter how weird, occult, satanic, blasphemous or stupid something other people do is, if Mormons do it it's sacred.