So, this is a little long but please help me out if you can...

I was baptized a year ago. I was really drawn to the church. I moved to Utah, met an RM and, well, fell in love. He is a great person, a wonderful person, really, and when he said he wanted to marry me and that he wanted to get engaged in the next few months I was naturally overjoyed, being a hopeless romantic and all.

Now, though, I'm just confused. I'm starting to feel like I'm trapped, like I'm caught in this web, and like all the things he's said to me were programmed into him somehow. I've really never had any exposure to Mormon teachings before and I feel like I am suffocating. He tells me a whole lot of unromantic things about marriage--it's commanded by the prophets, it's in D&C, etc., etc. Yeah, he says he "loves" me, and he is very persistent, and very committed, but still...something just isn't right. I feel like he just wants to be married in the temple, not married to ME. He's also said a few things about being a stay-at-home mom, the evils of day care and nannies, and him being "the head of the household" that honestly totally freaked me out. He and his family are basically convinced that we WILL be engaged and I am just so torn and confused. This all seemed so wonderful, and he's never mean or cruel to me at all--I just feel like I've been manipulated to believe that this is all sooooo happy and perfect, when actually, I'm being roped into being this person's "eternal companion" (because naturally we canNOT get divorced, ever, he says) and he's almost a robot. Help?!

I'm sorry for your confusion. Look at this way -- can a man who's programmed to think in these ways and base the selection of a mate on a cultural checklist and the commandments really marry for purely because he loves you and believes you're compatible?

Mormon dating/mate selection is mostly comprised of a checklist rather than finding a compatible mate you're attracted to.

Listen to your warning signs--your intellect and your spirit are trying to tell you something is off about this relationship and about Mormonism. I nearly walked away from my temple wedding -- and I was "an older" bride. 20 years later, I wish I had. Go now while you can.

I wish you well.

Do you want to be a stay at home mom?
Do you want to have a career?
Do you feel marriage should be an equal partnership or that the man should have the last say?
What are his views about sex? Do they match yours?
Just because he is a "great wonderful guy" does not mean you will be happy married to him.

Don't rush into anything. Figure out what you believe and what you want out of life and see if it matches what the church teaches.

...there's no rule that says you cannot take a step or twenty steps backwards from this relationship. It does not sound like this is what you want and you just need reassurance that it is okay to step back. You love this man but that does not mean he will be a great partner for you. It's okay to love someone but not marry them.

Marry the wrong person and life can be difficult, bringing children into it, makes it a million times more difficult. Do not do this if you are uncertain. Marriage is much better when it is with someone who has the same goals and desires as you.

Drop him now

they should also be warning signs about Mormonism in general, because marriage is a central tenet and the sound bytes you provided do indicate that his views on a spouse are basically church-dictated.

That's not to say that there aren't happy and successful Mormon marriages, but I'm just saying from my experience growing up Mormon in Utah, if these things are issues with this guy chances are there will be general, basic issues with Mormonism, as he sounds perfectly representative of the religion.

The very fact you're on here asking strangers is probably a cue you should consider breaking off the relationship. Don't go in to marriage with this level of doubt about your potential spouse. Listen to your instincts on this one. Your brain is trying to warn you about something, even if you don't consciously understand it.

My advice is to find a person that loves you for ALL of you, the way you are normally, without wanting to change you in any way, and without you wanting to change to please him/her. You need to feel the same way in return about your potential spouse. I promise you that you can find such a person. I can also promise you it is worth waiting to get married until you do.

Obviously breaking up with anyone you love is emotionally devastating. I learned the hard way that just because you love someone doesn't mean you should marry them. Learn from the mistakes of others. A little emotional pain now can save you thousands in legal fees, and a horrific hellish experience! ;-) Good luck!

If something is not right, put it right. Do a RAQ procedure.

RAQ = RUN AWAY - QUICK!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2010 07:36AM by matt.

The church also teaches that every individual - especially LDS church members - is entitled to personal revelation. Perhaps you should listen to what "the spirit" is telling you - what you have just told all of us. You are not locked into any course of action, You can break off the engagement, postpone it, whatever you think is appropriate.

If you are tending not to believe in Mormonism at this point, my advice to you is similar. Listen to your gut. From what you write, you are feeling as if something is not quite right in paradise. I see no reason for you not to heed your instinct in your situation. Is your RM intended in love with you - for who you are? Or is he in love with the idea of following the directives of church leaders and you happen to be the first female he came across? Marriage is an important commitment and should not be taken lightly.

I would suspect that you would want to marry someone who is in love with you for who you are - someone who will support you in your life's journey. Why would anyone care to marry someone who just needs anyone of the opposite sex to fulfill church commandments with and to insure that HE makes it into the CK? Take care of yourself and don't allow yourself to be used by someone who only needs to use you for his own personal goal. In the end, I doubt that such a relationship will be all that satisfying. Marriages have enough turmoil to be endured without outside expectations that will interfere with the couples ability to bond with one another.

"The church also teaches that every individual - especially LDS church members - is entitled to personal revelation. Perhaps you should listen to what "the spirit" is telling you - what you have just told all of us. You are not locked into any course of action, You can break off the engagement, postpone it, whatever you think is appropriate.
"

The best advice I've heard...

-YOU- can have, about yourself, a mormon-spirtual revelation about YOUR life and how to live it...You don't have to go by just your boyfriend's revelations....

I agree with everyone who says to listen to your instincts. I have a friend who was actually being married at the altar, in the temple, and something inside of her yelled, "Run!!!!" It startled her so badly, but she stayed because she thought, "I can't run now. It's too late. What would everyone think?"

In her wedding pictures, she looks like a deer caught in the headlights. She says it was all a blur as she was screaming inside. She ended up going through a divorce 5 years later and is no longer a Mormon.

Of course everyone's case is different, but as long as your instincts are feeling doubtful, that's not the time to marry. You need to at least step back a pace and regroup your thoughts.

Definitely let him know your thoughts on being a stay-at-home mother and how you feel about having a career, and being an equal partner to your husband. It may be that if your hopes and dreams don't match his, then he'll rethink whether he's got the right partner as well.

You can't go wrong in being honest, and honestly communicating with a man you're considering as a husband. Believe me, this is not the time to keep things to yourself.

Women covenant to be subjected to their husbands (in righteousness - whatever that is supposed to mean). What I was taught in SS or EQ was that the woman is slightly less "equal" to her husband. If they disagree on something, then the woman is supposed to seek confirmation that what her husband tells her is correct. The husband is supposed to have already done this with HF. If the wife still feels strongly that he is mistaken, she can tell her husband so. If he insists, she is to again go back and ask in prayer to confirm what her husband tells her. No such directive is directed to the husband. His involvement in the process - as exemplified in the temple ceremony - is with HF and as the head of the home (over the wife).

Its easy to deal with the the things you like in a person.

I would be more concerned about the things that make you uncomfortable.

Timothy

Marrying the one you love and who loves you is the only way to go. If you are unhappy about marrying this man, then you know you are not in love.

Ask yourself this- How long are you willing to cry while you hang in there until the painful divorce and possible church discipline?

There is a common perception in the LDS church that any two people who are living the gospel can be put together and have a successful lifetime marriage. That is not necessarily true, and is a hold-over from the Polygamy days where men would marry everyone they could get their hands on, in order to become higher gods.

This young man from your description is interested in sex, and securing himself a place in the Celestial Kingdom through temple marriage. If he really loves you he will consider a civil marriage where you two will promise yourselves to Each Other before consecrating each other to the church in the Endowment and Sealing ceremonies.

Faith is a tricky thing. Let's say you get married to this guy and a couple years and kids (because you will get pressured into having kids ASAP) later, you lose your faith. Are you prepared to fake it for the rest of your life, or are you prepared for the possibility (likelihood) of him leaving you if you leave the church? Also, I believe religion factors heavily into custody decisions in Utah.

Unfortunately, the picture is very big and the simple act of a temple wedding is very small in comparison to the problems ahead.

You said something very telling: "I've really never had any exposure to Mormon teachings before..."; you got what LDS calls Milk Before Meat, which means they wanted to get you baptised as fast as possible with warm fuzzy feelings and promises of the Celestial Kingdom before you discovered the man-made doctrie & weirdness that comes in the Temple, etc.
Nothing against your fiancee, but his programming says: "Get a wife--NOW!" You are A) A way to get sex and a big family, and B) A trophy that will help in his "corporate rise" in the church toward the CK.
Sorry to sound so rough. He may genuinely love you, but it's also part of his morg programming--that's all he knows and what he thinks is expected of him. Ultimately he is merely a cog in the machinery of the The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Even under mormon standards. You are wondering if your decision may be right? You are getting the feeling that it is not, but yet are being tempted to fold due to peer pressure.

I think you know what you should do, but the question is, do you have the courage to do what is right and let the consequence follow?

One of the most difficult concepts to grasp as a young military officer was the apparent contradiction between "always follow orders, you don't have the big picture, and people may die" against "if you follow an illegal order you will be held accountable". I think the similarity to your situation exists. If marriage is a sacred thing, does it honor it to just jump into it hoping it will all come out? I think that is the indicator you should be using with your moral compass.

Walking away may look like the darkest choice, but I think you already know the probability of it getting you to where you want to be is much higher. Good luck.

I squandered 23 years of my life in a Mormon "checklist" marriage.

I'm now married to a woman I truly love for exactly who she is.

I wish I could have those years back.

Walk away - he's saying he "loves" you because it's a programmed response as a Morgbot. It sounds cold, but it's true. It's very difficult to enjoy a genuine relationship while immersed in a cult.

You've met his family, so you have some idea of what their lives are like as Mormons. Look closely at them. How do they spend their time? What are their hobbies? Are they happy or tired and miserable all the time? Are they financially secure or constantly broke? Do you want a life like what they have?

Most of us subconsciously reproduce our original family dynamics in our marriages in some way, but Mormon families have a very specific template. Your boyfriend will probably expect you to follow it.

This could be a way to open a discussion with your boyfriend. Talk about the women in his family and mention how you would like your life to be different. His reaction will tell you a lot.

Do you know about temple marriages and garments yet? This board has a lot of information about both.

There is no mention of love. You covenant to the church and your husband. You are to harken unto your husband. He will rule over you in the eternities. And after this life you get to practice the "New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage", otherwise known as polygamy.

Oh and another thing: Your family will not be able to attend your wedding. They'll be stuck outside the temple like second class citizens with every other non-worthy family member. You'll break your mom's heart.

You are just a cog in his climb into the mormon life. Just like he said,,it is said,,,,,the leaders say this,,,??? Do they have a brain of their own? Some of the worst marriages I have ever seen,,have started out this way. He was a RM,,the church says this,,,he holds the priesthood,,unreal. Step back and question things. Good luck and keep us posted.

He sounds like the type who will choose the church over you, and you should consider that.

Their are many stories here about good parents, good spouses who found that the LDS church was a lie. When they stopped going to church, the TBM spouse dumped them.

If you choose to marry a TBM mormon, if you ever leave it won't matter how good of a spouse you are, it won't matter how good of a parent you are, your spouse will choose the church over you.

Do you really want that hanging over your head?

We all have a sixth sense, i.e. instincts, intuition, whatever you want to call it. Your intuition is trying to tell you that this is NOT going to be good for you.

At the very least you should tell him that "the spirit" is impressing you to set a minimum 6 month's courtship. He'll understand that. Think about this. Don't rush something as important as marriage. You'll be sorry. Don't be confused by the emotions of the situation. Use you head and listen to the intuition you have.

By the way, you were probably "drawn" to the church, like so many of the early European women, who were lied to by mormon missionaries. They came over and found themselves in the heart of a male dominated paradigm, and many were pressured into polygamy. The church may not openly practice polygamy anymore, but there is still an interwoven and underlining male egoism at work there. This is one reason why the state of Utah leads the nation in antidepressant meds. You are a talented pretty young lady. You can do better. Mormons think they are experts on marriage, but they're not. Get out of that idiotic cult.

And get off, fast. Do it anyway you want, but get out of this now.
Tell him you are not ready. Break it off.

You are not a match.

You are not on the same page about much of anything!

THINK long and hard. This is not what you want and you know it.

This is not an engagement. You're being railroaded. You are thinking one thing, and he is completely in a different universe.

You know this won't work.

Second SusieQ's opinion completely.

Don't be "love-stupid" - the rest of your life is at stake: _think_ it through very carefully.

Mormonism is all about Conformance, Compliance, and Control: is that really the milieu you want to spend the rest of your life completely immersed in?

As one that was "close" to making the big step with a mormon, I will give my view.

If you have any religious beliefs compare them to what the lds claim.

The lds is aggressive in its willingness to shun members and has taught them that with out the lds they will be worthless.

I tried very hard to get my GF to think outside the lds box when (I think) she started too it ended the relationship.

Think very hard about what you are are willing to give up as the lds member will in all likely hood be willing to give up very little.

Wish you the best with your decison.

She was talking about listening to your gut, and this is what she said (about when to say "yes" to any request):

"Those years of becoming focused taught me a powerful lesson about tuning in to my gut—that inkling that says, Hold on. Something's not right here. Please pause and make an adjustment. For me, doubt often means don't. Don't move. Don't answer. Don't rush forward. When I'm mired in confusion about what the next step should be, when I'm asked to do something for which I feel little enthusiasm, that's my sign to just stop—to get still until my instincts give me the go-ahead. I believe that uncertainty is really my spirit's way of whispering, I'm in flux. I can't decide for you. Something is off-balance here. I take that as a cue to re-center myself before making a decision—a reminder from above to wait for confirmation. When the universe compels me toward the best path to take, it never leaves me with "Maybe," "Should I?" or even "Perhaps." I always know for sure when it's telling me to proceed—because everything inside me rises up to reverberate "Yes!"

http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/What-I-Know-For-Sure-Spirit

Now, I'm not a religious person. But I DO believe in instinct. And you know something is wrong. I'm not going to say you need to walk away from the relationship, but you DO need to slow down and listen to yourself and your concerns.

The fact that you posted your concern on an exmo site, in particular, is interesting. Sounds like you need to explore your commitment to the church before you even consider marrying a TBM.

It's a LOT easier to wait and see where you want the relationship to go than it is to get out of a bad marriage.

If this is a good man, he will respect your need for more time and space. But the fact that you feel PRESSURE to get married soon is a red flag. If you were really on board with that, you'd be thrilled instead of scared. I believe that you have to be extremely cautious around men who want to move relationships to commitment too fast. They tend to be controlling. You'll know if he fits that profile if he keeps pushing after you tell him you need to slow down. Also, all of the discussion about his expectations for marrying a stay-at-home mom and stuff . . . that's only okay if you truly AGREE with him. And NOT because you cave into HIS expectations. You need to be a match.

Please, please be open with him about your true feelings about your role as a wife and mother and everything else. If he's not supportive, then get out of the relationship.

Dear CSG,

Forget for a second how you feel about this guy and how he feels about you. The first question you should be asking yourself is how do you feel about the religion? If you think that you may be becoming disenchanted with it then it’s probably a good idea to hold off on the whole marrying a Mormon thing altogether.

Whatever you decide, know that if you marry in the temple you’re also marrying Mormonism. You will have to make more covenants (baptism is just the first) to deepen your commitment level. And if you’re thinking that you won’t want to be married to this religion for long then you won’t want the lifestyle that goes along with it, meaning, you won’t want the same life that this man wants for the two of you. If you want to be a TBM for this life then he may be a good option for you. However, if you’re not totally still in love with him (before the engagement!) know that there is true love out there you just need to be patient to find it. You can be a TBM yourself and find a man who also shares your take on the religion (someone who’s not so, “I’m the head-of-the-household, you’re the stay-at-home-Mom. It’s been commanded by the Prophets!”).

Follow you’re heart, but also, listen to your gut. We have amazing ways of guiding and communicating with ourselves and “the spirit” (your heart) is not the only way! In fact, it’s probably the least reliable. But together (with your head as well) we are capable of living life the best we can.

Good luck with your decision!

My question to you is this: if a really good girlfriend wrote this in an email to you, what would be your reply to her?

Right! You would pick up on her being "freaked out" and the guy's manipulation. In other words, red flags would be flying all over the place for you to advise her to slow down or run.

You note that this guy is not mean or cruel. I say, not yet he isn't, because you haven't pushed anything very far, just a few meek objections, is my bet. Just wait until you want to step out of line and make an issue of it, then he will be mean and cruel!

I would hope you will please read this book: Controlling People by Patricia Evans. This will help you to make sense of what you are in and explain what your gut is trying to tell you.

This guy's control probably isn't completely attributable to his allegiance to his very cultish church. The Mormon church and all its rules and expectations provide the context for his controlling behavior. He'd probably be a controller whatever his religion.

Ok, you want to know if he really loves you or the church? Perform this one simple test.

Tell him you are leaving the church and do not want to be married in the temple.

IF he loves you that will not matter, but if he is marrying an ideal, from a checklist, and does not love you then he will break off the engagement and you will have to do nothing more.

But I'm not convinced that this kind of "testing" is good and appropriate in a loving relationship, not that I'd blame someone who felt otherwise and tried it.

I think I'd probably just lay it out, "If I was leaving the church and unwilling to marry in the temple, would you still be as interested in pursuing a longterm relationship with me? Is it me as a person, how I look, think, hope, and dream and not the fact that I'm mormon and "worthy" of temple marriage that attract you to me?"

we went through a horrible divorce, much of it over religion. Consider yourself fortunate that you discovered the fraud early on. You'v salvaged yourself from decades of entrapment.