I'm a car geek and have several blogs and websites that I have to check daily for interesting car stories.

Here's one story from Hooniverse, about a nurse in this town who saved people.

http://hooniverse.com/2018/11/13/good-guy-in-a-tundra-helps-save-lives-in-paradise-fire/?fbclid=IwAR2wFmalALFY4FNMhg9CIykFHlr_pgMAZLy_sn0E-gw19zg0MgMmszNOEBQ

I was talking to my ex last weekend while we waited for the Christmas Dance program start and she told me that someone she knows at work has relatives in Paradise, CA where there's been lots of damage.

My cousin lost everything in Paradise, but got out. I have an ex-cousin-in-law that my dad gave our '36 Chevy pickup to years ago--if it was still in Paradise I'm sure it's toast. I noticed you said you were a car geek, and I recall there was an classic car dealership in Paradise many years ago; I don't know if it *was* still there, but certainly not any more. I saw a photo of someone trailing out their Model T on a trailer--don't know if they made it. But the fire is the worst in state history, and the video going around of a man seeing the skeletons of his neighbors in their cars didn't make it (he went and jumped in the creek) is heartbreaking.

It's hard to even imagine the horrors of living through that, or dying in the inferno.

How awful. The pictures look like a warzone.

The church in Paradise burned.

See image #9.
https://www.sfgate.com/california-wildfires/article/Evacuations-ordered-across-Butte-County-as-Camp-13374840.php#photo-16473858

At least TSCC will have full insurance on the building and property so it isn't really out any loss. It will most likely rebuild on the same site.

I'd always heard that contrary to your belief, los mormones self-insured, that is, they elected not to buy property damage insurance and just expected to have enough money available to rebuild.

I don't actually know which is the correct answer, but here's an earlier RfM discussion on this issue:

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,370036

Self insurance is standard practice for large institutions.

There are two LDS churches in Paradise, from back in the day when there were 4 wards. Nowadays, church membership has so declined there are only two wards. One church building burned, one survived with little or no damage. My guess is that they won't bother to rebuild, since there are only two wards there nowadays.

my family who live in Paradise was not Mormon. My extended family in a variety of houses who all lived in Paradise are part of a different faith tradition are not and have never been Mormon.

The vast majority of folks on the ridge are not Mormon and have never been. and to the dear folks who are lds with ravaged homes lost lives pets and traumatized boo to any who would cast aspersion on them who have lived many thrills nights under stars fine trees Sierra rocks in the heart of many logging trestles water trails through the town

I think its a tan oak, whether a tan oak was on the the A line or B line C line- its still a tree whatever road it is on. Antique orchards of apples planted by pioneers old logging engines left in the woods Douglas Fir ponderosa pine incense cedar Digger pine madrone oak are all trees, whatever the road travels by may be. And so are the people along the road.

Support for the great folks whose heartfelt lives lived on the ridge above the reservoir and just along the canyon on the Skyway or out along Pence road leading to Oroville - dear folk where my memories may be these -- years old out since I held a baby in arms born in Feather River hospital on that cloudy rained out Monday.

To any of those who would pollute lives including mine, by politicizing it, criticizing politisizing those with lives twined through the trees along the Sierra decades and decades and decades and decades of love sweat joy through life

to any attempting ,attempting to castigate folks living it born lives intertwined on this ridge or any Sierra mountain ridge or valley --- you truly. your issues with religiosity do not yield right to attack mine dear loves mountain relatives nor our lives without response.

I'm not sure what post you read, but there was absolutely nothing in the OP that was rude, cast any aspersions on anyone, or attacked anyone.

clearly the originally poster stated his attempted topic was to attempt to state that many lds lived on the ridge in his opinion, on this exmormon board, pointing out days after almost 7000 homes and businesses were burned in one day. The original poster made his title line that many lds lived on the ridge, even attempted to state that a lot of members lived on the ridge-

typing this on the exmormon board- less than a week after almost 7000 homes and businesses burned in one day- a place where people rail against complain about and even express anger towards Mormons-- this poster- made a point of making the title line of this thread- be the theme- that Mormons lived in a place and many members lived in a place - that
almost 7000 homes and businesses burned down in a one day.

the original poster then went on to talk about old cars and small talk in several sentences-

the direct reference to the population-- giving a ethnic or cultural or demographic regional reference without statistcs btw --- after a natural disaster burning almost 7000 homes and businesses- is indirect- reference- as justification or noting the suffering of those indicated in the post.

This is very obvious- its a literary or argumentative device.

And I feel it is disgusting revolting and unacceptable.

Wahtever the point of the board- whatever the anger or current sacrifice socially or even fiscally of some of the posters who have left the church or left their l d s roots behind-

I object and refuse to accept former Mormons, non Mormons, recovered ex Mormons, not recovered ex Mormons making any argumentative points in their ex Mormon narrative or exmormon debate using my family and town's tragedy where nearly 7000 homes and businesses burned down in one day.

its beyond tacky. its revolting and I repudiate it. I will not accept an exmormon narrative being developed using paradise ridge tragically burning in one day - I will object to it, and find the use of the images of paradise folk suffering, fleeing, struggle now or on the day be utilized to make an exmormon 'dogmatic argumentation' point-- at my family, at fellow Californians, at secular northern Californian citizens' expense.

its so tacky. and its wrong to do.

as if that is an arguable point on the exmormon board.

Right when I got a message on facebook from a gay friend I got close to in paradise with more than a dozen paradise folk in their home post fire, and trying to gather in and find safe places for now homeless evacuated friends.

the friendliest communities in Chico and paradise - here is someone on this board trying to make the paradise fire into a n

exmormon talking point- attempting to make the point of the board post- that Mormons lived in that place, that burned down, folks, uh

Painting, I think you are off the mark here. I can't see in the OP the negative insinuations that you describe.

I don't believe there was any attempt to give offense.

I did not even know you have family or friends living there, painting. Whatever offense you have taken from some talking points, I can understand your sensitivity to the subject.

I didn't see where offenses were given, but then I am not on the receiving end of where you are.

Even something slightly off kilter can be taken the wrong way when you're reeling from a traumatic disaster. I can't even begin to contemplate the trauma the people of that region are dealing with. Especially those who've lost everything they own, and some their lives or lives of loved ones.

OP says "many members" in town. I don't see mention of a ridge.

In any case PinW, it's a nightmare for all affected and their families and friends. I hope your relatives are all OK. The losses are unimaginable.

I'm sure nobody here takes it lightly and wish only the best.

I never heard that, Cheryl and I lived there my whole life. It's called "the Ridge" because it's built over several canyons and ridges.

So I guess you didn't notice the heroic story from Paradise he linked to, which he found while looking at his car stuff...

Nothing in his post was critical or offensive or anything of the sort.

stating lots of Mormons lived in a place that nearly 7000 homes and businesses burned down in one day- in the thread title line-

is disgusting

regardless of small talk or links-

choosing to link to the idea or theme that Mormons lived there is a marketing or psychological technique linking the emotion and tragic response to the select term- in this case that would be the phrase; many Mormons.

\

There is no value judgment in the thread title.

any English teacher or psych curriculum or marketing psychologist could see it. the direct statement of targeted identified local, direct statement of identified group, group, the direct statement of verb/ situational informing outcome

followed by an entirely un related topic in this case cars and car rescue-- the need for rescue followed by indication of identified group's suffering a needed rescue.

if the topic was entirely intended only to be cars why wasn't that stated in the topic line of the thread>

thus the actual goal of the board was in the writer's choice- to be at the residents of paradise California's EXPENSE, and at the expense of all relations and business investments and property owner's and friends and family of the deceased -- whereby the original writer elected to gain an emotive ploy, an emotive 'anchor' 'tie in' through referred group's suffering

(the opposition group, on this ex Mormon board) and then proceed with his post on cars.

You are projecting your views onto another’s statement. It doesn’t require an English expert to see that.

I think its such an off topic, un necessary phrase or statement

if the topic of the thread was to be old cars, or car rescue, or car rescue heroism, isn't it?

THIS example would be a fine thing for a Mormon apologist, or a Mormon phd psychologist or a Mormon marketing firm member to read- and see, in face, that there is evidence demonstrating that an exmormon board is utilizing a reference to a tragic experience which is fairly recent- to the name of their group / population- attempting to make a tragic bad feeling attach to their Mormon/ lds folk through conditioning/aversive which is a marketing strategy

Then veering completely to another topic for the body of the post.


IF this wasn't the original poster's intent, then change the entire TITLE of the thread.

it is similar to noting that a tragedy happened, then pointing out the undesirable ethnic group in the company of racists
then telling jokes or talking sports.

it is similar to noting that someone had a tragic death or suffering when it was a country which one was at war with- and then talking about sports.

THIS is very unacceptable on this board. Can no one see the clear obvious pattern in the original post- attempting to bring Mormons as a group into the thread about current present day suffering?

my father's cousin from Sicily did this all the time talking about non Italians- he'd state a designated not Italian group and then the horrible thing which happened to them, then nod, smile, and talk about the wine and soup break bread and talk sports when getting out his cigar- to celebrate and toast the scicilian's success and the other he had indicated's apparently deserved scourging, death, dismemberment, bankruptcy, what have you- that he indicated happened to the identified group.

how can you not notice this argumentative, persuasive sequence its almost a literary device used in language

Painting: It's not a car story. OP's focus is the nurse who rendered aid. That shows compassion. First that the story touched him. Second that he wanted to share it.

painting:

I read the original post just after it went up, and I have just reread it, and I do not see anything at all wrong with it.

I say this as someone who lives in an area which has been devastated by the current wildfires, and this includes our local fatalities (the authorities are checking for additional human remains right now--an effort that, necessarily, will be ongoing for some time).

I think that your totally understandable emotions are leading you to come to conclusions right now that are not, in truth, valid.

No one has said anything insensitive or wrong that I am able to see.

Painting, I've also seen it noted that a lot of elderly people lived there as well -- elderly, retired, antique/collectible car buffs, Mormons (since two ward houses burned there, it's a given,) etc.

I think the entire country is feeling for the people of Paradise. The videos of people trying to drive out with fire on both sides of the road are heart-wrenching and terrifying. It looks like it was a lovely community, a place where you might want to live and be happy. I had never heard of it before. There are large swathes of California that are a complete mystery to me.

We will probably set a record for rain this year in Maryland. The record goes back to the 1800s. If we could send some of it to California, we would.

That Toyota Tundra is an important relic that survived this horrific event.

To me, it's not about cars, but about survival and the bravery of the man driving it.

The damage to the truck demonstrates the intense heat that the driver endured to help other people.

It's important.

And I hope Toyota trailers that Tundra to every new-car show here and abroad for years to come.


Oh, weather reports for our area predict rain Nov. 21, and to continue for days.

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That Toyota Tundra is an important relic that
> survived this horrific event.
>
> To me, it's not about cars, but about survival and
> the bravery of the man driving it.
>
> The damage to the truck demonstrates the intense
> heat that the driver endured to help other people.
>
> It's important.
>
> And I hope Toyota trailers that Tundra to every
> new-car show here and abroad for years to come.

This is a really good idea, kathleen. It would also serve as a potentially important lesson on how to possibly survive this kind of situation.


> Oh, weather reports for our area predict rain Nov.
> 21, and to continue for days.

Yay for rain!!

[Meaning: Rain in appropriate amounts given local conditions--because, with our now denuded hillsides, we must begin being concerned about the possibility of mudslides and floods.]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2018 03:04AM by Tevai.

I'm disgusted with this thread.

The fire is not about YOU.

My brother moved to Paradise, when he retired. We have many years of happy memories there. The little Sierra towns are charming. The scenery is beautiful--the farms, the forests, Feather River Canyon, Lassen National Park. We explored and hiked all over the region. Some close friends both teach at Cal State in Chico. For family reunions, some of us would stay at the Lantern Inn, and eat at the Black Bear cafe. It is hard to believe that the entire town is gone.

My brother was a widower for some of those years, and his neighbors were very nice to him. They invited him to dinner often. They helped him clear out his yard, of dead or overgrown shrubs. Some of it was poison oak. The cleanups were mandatory for all Paradise residents, and the police would get after anyone who failed to comply.

The memories come flooding back.... It was horrifying to see Penz Road and the Skyway--those familiar roads--in flames, as people fled. I am praying for them all.

Fortunately, the people I know are OK, and their houses were not burned. My brother's (former) house, still stands, as well. My brother had to evacuate his house 3 times, while he lived in Paradise, and he would stay at my house in SLC, until he got the "all clear." Scary!

Who exactly do you think is making the fire about herself? It's not obvious to me.

exminion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm disgusted with this thread.
>
> The fire is not about YOU.

I am glad you posted about Paradise and your family's connections to the greater Paradise community.

I disagree with the sentiments I have quoted here.

I am a Californian, and this makes the Paradise fire about me, because I am a part of this state.

(I also have a somewhat tenuous personal connection: Paradise is where my sister's mother-in-law lived for many years, until her death a few years ago.)

The wildfires in southern California, as well as the wildfires in northern California, may not be "about" me, but they are MINE--as is equally true for any other Californian.

They are MY responsibility because I am a resident and a voter in this state, and my obligation as a Californian is to make the right choices (especially come election day).....and to be concerned about, and informed about, the relevant issues which affect any and all of us who are so incredibly fortunate to be a part of this state.

I would hope that you, as a Californian, feel the same way too.

These tragedies touch us all in a similar way 9/11 did IMO.

If you know someone living there or have relatives trying to escape it makes it all the more personal because of those associations. That helps people identify and come to terms with grief and loss.

If you have memories associated with the area, even moreso.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These tragedies touch us all in a similar way 9/11
> did IMO.

A really good insight, Amyjo.

I hadn't connected the two in my thinking, and you are absolutely correct.

:)

Everything she owned is gone. She isn't a mormon. Still, she's in dire circumstances along with others in that town who are also not mormons except for a small percentage. Those are the facts.

I am so sorry for your daughter, Cheryl--and what she is (and will be, for the immediate future) going through.

This is a devastating experience, not only in the obvious "outside" realities which are undeniable, but also right into the innards of a person's soul.

I feel so much for her, and I hope she is, and will be, able to make her way forward as smoothly as is possible.

Tell her that there are a whole lot of people she has never met, or known the existence of, who are pulling for her!!

At least the spotted owls are safe from loggers. Oh, wait...