I thought members are not to contact General Authorities. So Russ parades out a small young girl dying of brain cancer tonight. Yes a sad story. Then has her and her parents stand up in congregation. I guess my point is how do some people get to meet and talk to the these big wigs and the rest of the people have to go through stake Presidents and Bishops for their answers. How many parents watching tonight with sick and dying children are thinking of I wish my child could met the president of the Church. According to Russ it was the childs last wish to meet him.

I know it took the focus off Christmas for me. He did say the child asked him what heaven was like and Russ gave her an tonight that seemed so doctrinal and so so out of touch and did not address the child's question. Bottom line is Russ does not know what heaven is like, at least that was my take away.

Anyone else have comments?

WTF? How utterly tasteless.

If you have a child dying of brain cancer, contact me. I can help. For free. They don’t have to die.

Now I think about it it was all about Russ and not the child. Yes it was tasteless.

I tried to think that Russ was not using this to promote himself as I was listening to him speak. This should have seemed a private matter between child parents and Russ. He did wish the parents and the child well.

Well, it’s not out of character. Notice how none of his underlings advised him on how creepy it would look.

Whenever some leader of a big organization or politician shoves a suffering child in your face, you know that they're going to manipulate the hell out of your natural empathic responses and emotions.

Politicians will often have a preconception of how they want to manipulate an audience...and children always make great stage props. The trick is then to closely associate "policy x" with the child that has been thrust into your face. If you attempt to criticize the politician's agenda or the preacher's agenda, the idea is that they can then accuse you of hating or not caring about children.

It's certainly easy for them to find children to use as props. Typically, the underlings who screen out people looking for attention from the top leaders will have records of who made the attempt and why. If the leader then wants a suffering child to use as a prop, they ask the relevant underlings to go through their records to see if anyone who recently wanted to get in touch with the leader guy has a suffering child who will fit the narrative and serve as a suitable stage prop.

An infamous example of this was the Nayirah testimony before Congress at a time when politicians and media were pulling out all the stops to whip up emotional support for the first Gulf War. The false testimony involved a young girl (Nayirah) pretending that she was a hospital volunteer at a Kuwaiti hospital and had witnessed Iraqi soldiers throwing babies on the floor in order to steal incubators.

It turned out that the young girl was the daughter of a Kuwaiti ambassador and had been coached by a big PR firm (Hill & Knowlton -- similar to the Edelman firm hired by the LSD Church) to tell the false story. The story, which is often credited as being instrumental in whipping up the necessary public support for the war, turned out to be a total fabrication.

(Also see the movie "Wag the Dog" (Dustin Hoffman, Robert De Niro, Kirsten Dunst) for a satirical revelation of the methodology.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

I know that this all sounds very cynical. Unfortunately, this is a reality in the world we live in.

Willie Nelson was hired to make an appropriate song (That old shoe or something like that) and some radio guy pretended he found it in some old archive and everybody started playing it...

The movie is full of diverse PR methods, to make people believe in BS.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120885/

I've hated Christmas for years, but could never say anything without feeling guilty about dissing Jesus.

Now I can go full Grinch. I like watching my kids open presents, but that's about it. I hate everything else about the damn holidays.

I'm happy to hear that I'm not alone in hating Christmas. My hatred comes from too many years working in retail customer service and the attending assholes and events that always go on.

Started about 10days before Thanksgiving every year and seems to get earlier every year.

I'm happy to see grandkids have a good Christmas but other than that.......

I hate Christmas too. Glad I'm not alone. Retail also killed it for me too. I can't stand the greediness of some people, and others to who only do charity because it's the holidays, but not the rest of the year.

Im not a fan of the music either. I do like the lights. I think that's the only thing other than watching my young neices open presents.

I'm not big on receiving it giving gifts either. Ok, I'm a major grinch. Lol

I did work retail as well. Pushed carts without a machine in a foot of snow. But that's not what ruined it for me. It was my family. I just can't stand them. But as a Mormon I was supposed to love Jesus and love my family. I've rejected that idea. Screw Jesus, and screw anyone that brings unnecessary pain in my life, including and especially family. So the Holidays brought such stress having to go to stupid family things.

We dropped out cable package a tier last year as it cut the bill by almost half. In doing so we lost BYU-TV. Unfortunately, it can still be found on the internet.

I didn't watch the devotional, but it sure sounds as if Nelson is trying to live up to his rock star personality. I think this type of stunt of using members was rare if not unheard of. It seems that the leaders don't care if their actions come across uncaring and tacky. It's as if the leaders knows that their time is almost up, so they will do anything to hold members' attention.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2018 11:45PM by messygoop.

I felt the 'child and parents standing' thing was a tad 'grandstanding'-ish, but the familiar Christmas carols by the choir were good. I don't like unfamiliar songs. And they always do Handel's Messiah nicely.

It's the shittily sappy and predictable Hallmark Christmas movies that trigger near fatal bouts of nausea upon my persons, to be a sickening problem. Whoever is responsible for THAT shit needs to be slapped into subconsciousness forever and ever. The bastard/s.

I agree, halmark staring that Candice-Camron-Rodriguez or whatever her name is, has that christmas marathon thing going all year, every story is the same, and they cast the same people in every movie, and the soundtrack doesn't change either.

it's nauseating, but old people love this stuff, I guess?

Christmas is whatever you want to make it. As a kid I loved getting out of school. The lights. The decorations. The music. The whole thing. Throw some Jesus in there too. Haha! I aways found LDS Christmas devotionals boring as hell. I did enjoy the Christmas lights at temple square. Throwing lots of lights up is about the only cool thing the church does at Christmas. For a religious setting I would rather go to a midnight mass but my favorite is having a big dinner on Christmas eve and spending it with family.

My best friends growing up were three sisters who lived on my street. One was my age, one a year older, and one three years younger. They were Catholic. Every year, they invited me to midnight mass. I was wildly eager to go, not because I was into religion of any sort, but because my mother was such a freak about bedtime. I longed to have a legitimate excuse to still be awake at midnight.

It never happened.

Even now, midnight Mass sounds like something dreamlike and exotic. But now, I'm a grown-up, plus being retired. I go to bed and get up whenever I bloody well feel like it. I like having my own rules these days, after decades of having to obey other people.

self infatuated deceitful lying MORmON POS willing to take upon themselves the sacred title of apostle and special witness of Jesus Christ even as MORmONISM insists that they are as literal of an apostle as possible in every new testament sense of the term and title, but in reality they can not come close to actually fulfilling their apostolic duty.

my youngest brother was born with a very serious health issue.
so naturally my TBM wanted to do anything and everything they could to help him out, as MORmON members that anything and everything included a blessing from an apostle who should by NT accounts have plenty of godly relayed power to fix up any health problem situation. The problem is that no ancient apostle was available so they had to rely on a latter day MORmON apostle.

The local MORmON leaders highly discouraged such a thing. kind of ironic considering all that had already been done to build up top MORmON leaders as literal representative of God. My MORmON parents managed to use backdoor channels to get an apostolic blessing for my brother anyway. They were thrilled about that!!! but the major thing is, the blessing really did nothing to improve my brother's condition.

Looking back on the situation, it was a huge test of my MORmON parents faith relative to their beloved MORmON religion, and MORmONISM failed in many major ways. the only victory for my parents was in actually getting the Apostolic blessing for my brother, but it was a completely hollow and utterly meaningless "triumph" because the blessing did NOT bring about the needed results. besides the fact that the local leaders were so nasty about in trying to prevent the MORmON apostle from attending to my parent's request.

looking back on the situation, those events should have been a HUGE SIGNAL to my MORmON parents that their religion does NOT live up to its many claims of divine power and authority. Instead of arriving at that conclusion, my parents did the MORmON thing and caved in, and rationalized do they could maintain their MORmON faith and belief inspite of contravening reality that had played out before them.

I know that my parents are not the only ones who have made such requests. and I am guessing that just as many or more people are just completely IGNORED in response as well as criticized for seeking a sign. My parents were like wise criticized.

The bottom line is that THE (MORmON) church can NOT and does NOT live up to its claims of divine power and authority. I have ZERO sympathy for them when they get caught for being big time self serving PHONIES who lie and exploit others, however they get caught!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj9uLK-Z1MM

Seeing he is a doctor by profession, it doesn't surprise me he would use a medical situation to as teaching back drop.

That said, he isn't the first to use a sick child to further his message.

He should reapply as a chaplain and ditch the profit role. That might suit him so much better since his former life as a physician. Then he could minister to little children f/t dying in hospitals instead of parading them for a publicity stunt.

What is heaven like? For a profit he has no answers, because he isn't really a prophet or even a man of the cloth. It also makes me wonder what kind of physician he really was, because of his poor judgment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2018 07:57AM by Amyjo.

question, so I went and watched the relevant part of the video. Turn out he totally gasfogged it with the usual non-response response.

If indeed she did ask that question, you know she would like concrete details, something to get excited about.

Maybe something like: "Well, everything is clearer and seems even more real than anything in this life. You always feel healthy. Imagination is much more powerful there and you can build your own surroundings there in exquisite detail and beauty. It's like instead of clumsily using crayons to draw pictures here, your imagination can create surroundings that are more detailed and real than your own home here...and can be more interesting than anything you can see in your favorite movies like Harry Potter. And best of all, there are many loving people there, each with unique and lovely personalities, and you can invite them to play in the castles, meadows, cabins and other surroundings that you have created with your imagination for your own space...and you can also visit theirs. The things you witnessed and experienced here can give you ideas for your imagination, and you can exchange ideas with others and learn from them and they from you. You can also make your own movies and plays and invite others to see what you have created. But, young lady, please rest assured that you will not get bored. You will still experience different desires and moods, not ugly desires or moods such as we see in this earth, but different desires and moods like changing seasons and weather. At times, you may enjoy restful, quiet and peaceful moments, as though sitting next to a warm and softly glowing fireplace in a cabin on a night when snow falls peacefully outside--and you can create that surrounding to suit your mood and take much delight in your creation. Other times, you may be in the mood for thrills, and drawing upon just the right amount of fears and sensations in your memory from this life, create a thrilling roller coaster ride, greater than any roller coaster in this world, or place yourself in a dramatic scene and story, like play acting here--only a thousand times more fun. And, young lady, don't get me started on the delights of your own tea parties and talking teddy bears and real animals, like kittens and puppies, whose spirits will also be there and can communicate with you."

That's probably the kind of answer she would have been hoping for, you know, from a real, genuine "prophet", "seer" and "revelator".

Of course the Nelsonator could not give her that kind of answer because he doesn't know anything more about the afterlife than the little girl does. So basically his answer is little more than "Heaven is being with Jesus and Heavenly Father", which gives her exactly zero additional information or insight. He may as well have just said: "Heaven is like being in the place that you go to after you leave here and Jesus and Heavenly Father are there. We don't know much beyond that or how it works exactly or what you do or what kinds of things you can or cannot do with Jesus and Heavenly Father, but it's supposed to be pretty good or better than something that is not so good. Maybe there will be a lot of church meetings for you to enjoy."

SEcular Priest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone else have comments?

I feel like the Mormon creative types are going to be busy writing the story and song modeled after "The Christmas Shoes" called The Christmas Testimony Gloves.

WOW! I didn't even know this was happening yesterday.

https://www.lds.org/church/events/2018-first-presidencys-christmas-devotional?lang=eng

I asked my wife if she would go with me to this and she said yes.

http://hmckc.org/holiday/

It was great. I felt the spirit of Christmas.

One of the messages Nelson's stunt gives is, "Here is an example of how priesthood blessing don't actually heal anyone."

Why did the Mormons have their "Christmas Devotional" last night? Christmas isn't for another three weeks!

Surely intelligent Mormons could see that Nelson was using this sick little child, and the desperate parents, as a "stage prop" (thanks, Wally Prince) to elevate his own (graven) image as God's Prophet for The World. His psychosis is becoming more rampant, as senility sets in. What an ego!

I did stay home and watch Hallmark movies, and I love them! They are upbeat. They don't pretend to answer life's questions, or change your mind--except to buy more Hallmark cards and decorations. It's all harmless. They promote love and family and home--what's wrong with that? It's unabashed fantasy--like the sticky whipped-cream stuff they spray on the green summer leaves. I love the predictability of the plots, in contrast to this crazy, random world. I love that goodness always prevails, in the Hallmark world. Unlike the Mormon world, lying, being phony, being materialistic, not following your heart, being unfaithful, attempting a scam, child and spousal abuse, and bullying NEVER PAY OFF! In Mormonism, these characteristics lead straight to leadership positions and promotions. Even the Hallmark antagonists are nicer than most Mormons I have known. I know--they aren't real, but neither are the characters in the BOM and in the cautionary tales in the cult manuals.

Hallmark sets, the towns and churches, even the shots of major cities, are attractive and overly-decorated, unlike the stark, empty Mormon ward houses, without a Christmas tree.

Rather than being someone who makes themselves unhappy--and brings others down--at Christmas, I would rather be that ditzy person who decorates their kitchen sink, and drinks cocoa with the cat on Christmas Eve. I have been alone (with my cat and dog) on Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve, and was 100 times happier than I was, when spending that time with sad, humorless Mormons.

Yes, my cat and dog both have a sense of humor.

Next year, skip the "devotional", and stay home (alone or with family and pets) and watch "Christmas Vacation" and drink (whatever beverage) from a Santa mug, and be happy for those who are giddy over Christmas! Oh, and wear those Christmas slippers the kids gave you.

Mother Who Knows Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why did the Mormons have their "Christmas
> Devotional" last night? Christmas isn't for
> another three weeks!

My thoughts exactly. It's not christmas yet.

How would they feel if people wished them a happy fourth of July in the first half of June?

Mormon firesides and devotionals aren't about Christ, so it doesn't need to be at Christmas.

Didn't they used to call it, "The First Presidency Fireside"? Probably another name-change, eh?" The Mormons changed it to "The Christmas Fireside." Not about Christ. Not at Christmas. No hearth or fire. Oh, it's "Christmas devotional." Nope, not devoted to Christ. What is it? We all know what it is!

Mormonism is so depressing! That poor little dying child--a child that Christ is not going to heal--a reason to curse God. A reason to feel that we can never do enough, never give enough.

It's also a reason to give your donations directly to those who need them, or at least to a reputable group that will be accountable, and guarantee your donations will go directly into the hands of those truly in need.

No small print, as on the new Mormon tithing slips.

My work friends and I gave clothes, bedding, toys, cash, a turkey dinner, a Christmas tree, etc, directly into the hands of specific Paradise families (2 sisters and their husbands and kids and grandma). We had someone drive over there with a truck--and it was pretty much anonymous. We had so much fun doing it! It's much better to take action, than to just sit there and be beaten-up with guilt and angst and helplessness. How great it would be that if in December, Mormons were allowed to keep their 10% tithing for that month, and spend it directly on helping others! Think of the joy!

Why do Mormons allow their cult and the fake leaders to take complete control of all their charity donations and service?

Did anyone talk about doing a "make-a-wish" on the sick child--other than fulfill her supposed wish to meet President Nelson? Did Russ and Wendy invite the child and parents over to their house for dinner, even? Is someone going to give these people a Christmas they'll never forget? Mormons are all hot-air and BS.

They used to encourage members to donate anonymously, but blaring their Mormon trumpet and "Look how good we are" seems to be the norm today.

Why did they have it so early? So they could save the end of December for Joseph Smith’s birthday celebration.

jazzskeeter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why did they have it so early? So they could save
> the end of December for Joseph Smith’s birthday
> celebration.


Mmmm, I always thought it was the first Sunday in December?

according to the Prophet (Gordon B. Hinckley). He spoke the sacred name on a TV program of a major global broadcast network.

What? You don't listen to the voice of the Prophet?

I do and I did. That's how I know about the true doctrine of Jesus Smith.

When Jesus Smith returns in all his glory, only the elect that know that sacred name will be gathered up into the clouds with him.

My family really enjoys MoTab and the Christmas devotionals. Lots of people try hard to bring some joy and class to this degenerate world. But there's nothing Ol' Russ won't dominate and destroy just to prove that no one can stop him.

He's trying so hard to impress that virgin bride of his. I guess their honeymoon didn't go so well, nor could it be expected to be the lovefest they wanted. Sexual sublimation has destroyed many an aging surgeon's career.

"More good" has become "more evil". "Mormon" is now just a Jamaican asking for some extra cash.

I'm waiting for RMN to slip up and talk about the church of "Jesus Nelson" at some point.

It had to be - it was LDS.

Got any links?

Years ago I agreed to go to an Xmas devotional night when Monson was in charge. He told some insipid story about a soldier who needed to be home by Xmas and someone gave up their plane ticket. I figured the evening would be lame but the dumbass jackmo/apostate whom I accompanied was about bubbling over with tears of Xmas/LDS joy. He couldn't see that Monson made it all up. There was no soldier. No reference to a name or personal connection to Monson or TSCC. Nothing that could be documented. How anyone could be stupid enough to believe this pablum blows my mind. The public apostate/private TBM's mother was stupid enough to fall for the cult to begin with so it must be inherited.

Grinch (RMN) stole Christmas.

ChurchCo carried the coffin.

Seriously, the child's last wish was to meet him? That seems rather unbelievable - most likely it was the parents' last wish that the child meet him.

It was Nelson and his staff wishing to use a child as a stage prop.

The parents and child, when contacted, were willing to play along with the charade.