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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 02:20PM

As if DNA couldn't get anymore stranger than it is.

Today 23 and me sent a recalculated update with some wholly different results that have subjected me to an identity crisis.

I've gone from being one-third British Irish to less than one fifth. Before that was my predominant ethnic background. Now I'm 39.4% mostly Swiss, with German background. Who would've thought? Me, Swiss?

Never mind one of my goals in life was to move to Geneva, Switzerland and finish graduate school over there. Or that one of my children nearly enrolled in the ETH school in Zurich. (I'm seriously glad that didn't pan out.)

To be Swiss though ... now what to do with my newfound knowledge but to book a guided tour through the Swiss Alps instead of Scottish glens?

Seriously though, it is confusing, but I'm processing the info. I even called 23 and me and spoke to a supervisor there asking why so much change from the initial report? As they get more precise with their science, so does their findings apparently. Which means the reports can still change over time, using the same DNA I submitted for Mother's Day back in 2017.

My, oh my.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2019 02:20PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: Nick ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 02:28PM

Why are you even bothering with 23 and me? Don't you have a patriarchal blessing that tells you your true heritage?

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 02:34PM

If I relied on that I wouldn't be on RfM now would I?

If people relied on their patriarchal blessings for their DNA we'd be in a heap of trouble. Oy, that's why we're here.

I actually like my patriarchal blessing but not for its scientific value. It was a security blanket for me when I was a teenager. Now I keep it as a record of my personal history kind of like a diary as a reminder of where I've been.

Whereas DNA is science. And that I find comfort in as well as value, as part of my history of where I came from.

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Posted by: Nick ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 02:43PM

I was joking. Sorry for not making that clear. I actually really appreciate the hard genealogical work that my grandmother and brother (when he was TBM)did for me. It isn't biological science but when supported with evidence it is reliable, interesting, and as you mention comforting to know where you're from.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 02:47PM

I got about as much satisfaction from my patriarchal blessing during my turbulent youth as I did from my Jeanne Dixon astrological horoscope for my birthday the year I turned 16. For some odd reason I memorized that horoscope, and it's stayed with me throughout my life. She was the astrologer for presidents and diplomats. Somehow she made it into my little hometown newspaper in Idaho Falls, Idaho. And I thank God for that. Her predictions for my life have actually come true.

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Posted by: contrarymary ( )
Date: January 26, 2019 01:36PM

The Post Register! I grew up there too.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 29, 2019 11:57AM

Hello neighbor!

:)

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Posted by: Evergreennotloggedin ( )
Date: January 27, 2019 06:41PM

I think Magic 8 ball is as accurate as Patriarchal Blessings, plus a lot more fun!

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 29, 2019 11:58AM

And they're both playing with the occult !

;-)

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Posted by: acerbic_comic ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 03:48PM

Identical twins got quite different results from 3 different tests including 23 and me.

Have a look:

https://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/episodes/2015-2016/dna-ancestry-tests-can-you-trust-the-results

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 04:41PM

This is what I find so shocking is that this is the same DNA I submitted from almost two years ago, that now they find differing results from the same supposed test with the same saliva.

They say it's "more specific and accurate" now.

When I asked what about MyHeritage who I uploaded my 23 and Me DNA results to with strikingly different results and the supervisor told me they can't stand behind the other company's results, only their own.

Well, I'm not sure about their own either lol. If it is more accurate, we'll see. I'm hesitant to submit my DNA to a different company because I'm going to end up with split personalities the more ethnic backgrounds I become (jkz.) MyHeritage tells me I'm Scandinavian, Baltic, Greek in addition to British/Irish etc. 23 and me does not.

But I didn't pay MyHeritage to run my DNA, and I did 23 and Me.

(Is it true you get what you pay for? Or not?)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2019 04:42PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: 3X ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 08:12PM

"This is what I find so shocking is that this is the same DNA I submitted from almost two years ago, that now they find differing results from the same supposed test with the same saliva."


Perhaps they retested with your now age-improved saliva?


:)

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Posted by: MarkJ ( )
Date: January 29, 2019 10:49AM

I think what might be happening is that as these DNA testing services acquire more samples, they have more data to narrow down origins. Like having more pieces of a puzzle or mosaic.

For what it's worth, by historical documentation I am overwhelmingly Danish, but my DNA also shows a heavy southern German, Swiss background.

DNA testing will improve as more and more samples are available. As Mormons are probably more interested in genealogy than the public at large, I suspect there is a disproportionate number of Mormon DNA samples along with a disproportionate representation of their origins.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 16, 2019 05:24PM

Mark, would you be so kind as to let me know which company you went through to get your DNA tested? Because if it was different than the one I went with I may try that one as an alternative to see what results it gives.

Hope you see this. It's been awhile since you posted, but in case you re-read this thread and your prior post you might pick this up and respond. :)

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: January 25, 2019 01:15AM

Someone who works with me was given DNA test kits for Christmas last year, one for himself and one for his wife. His wife had no interest in it, so he spit in the two separate vials and mailed them with bogus names. The two samples were far from identical.

Amyjo, you can place as much faith into any of the commercial dNA anaylsis services as you want, but I'm not convinced the people doing this really know how to extrapolate ethnic data from DNA. As far as whether to visit Scotland or Switzerland, you might be wise to go to whichever place interests you more. It would seem to be naive to plan a trip based on anything revealed by 23andMe.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2019 02:44AM by scmd1.

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Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: January 25, 2019 08:31AM

"As far as whether to visit Scotland or Switzerland, you might be wise to go to whichever place interests you more. It would seem to be naive to plan a trip based on anything revealed by 23andMe."

Exactly...I'm assuming that this decision is part in jest, but if not, go to BOTH places. If only 1 trip to Europe is in the cards, then your advice holds true.

I read Amy's original post and thought...1st-World problems.... I hope most of that post was in jest and no real stress or angst was added to a possible trip to Europe because of her DNA results.

Based off of the other responses, those DNA testing companies for the general public, aren't too accurate.

I already know I am European mutt in ethnic makeup. Some West European and some East European. The percentages of each aren't worth finding out for me.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 25, 2019 10:50AM

I've wanted to visit Europe for as long as forever.

Switzerland is tops on my list, even before 23 and me gave me these findings.

UK would be nice too. So maybe both but not at the same time.

Even Switzerland would take more than a two week excursion to do that justice. Between north and south are distinctly different including dialects, culture, and geography.

And language. Albeit English is the second language so as a tourist I should be okay.

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Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: January 25, 2019 08:17PM

I highly recommend traveling to any country in Europe. I hope you have fun..

enjoy..

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Posted by: Drinkie ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 06:32AM

Switzerland is expensive to visit. The second language tends to be one of the other Swiss languages - German, French, Italian, Rumantsch - but Rnglish is neutral.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 18, 2019 09:35AM

Drinkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Switzerland is expensive to visit. The second
> language tends to be one of the other Swiss
> languages - German, French, Italian, Rumantsch -
> but Rnglish is neutral.

The northern part of Switzerland tends to be more German speaking. In the southern around Lake Geneva is more French. Lugano is the Italian corner of Switzerland, next to Como, Italy. Rumantsch is a more local dialect "spoken predominantly in the southeastern Swiss canton of Grisons (Graubünden), where it has official status alongside German and Italian." (wiki)

Swiss German is the most widely spoken language in Switzerland, spoken by just over 60% of the Swiss. Of the 4 official languages German, French, Italian, and Romansch, only German, French and Italian share equal status. (babbel.com)

English is the most commonly taught foreign language in Switzerland outside the national languages.

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Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: May 18, 2019 04:10PM

Ancestry keeps tweaking theirs. When my father had his done it came back with a small percentage of "North Africa/Iberian Peninsula." We took it is a nod to suspected possible African heritage. But by the time I had mine done months later it had changed to "Iberian Peninsula/Spain" Sure was fun for awhile, though, thinking my dad who told me that if I ever brought a black boy home I'd be horsewhipped, might have some black DNA in his racist ass. Of course, we all go back to Africa eventually, but you can't tell that to a mormon, even one with a supposed scientific background.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 05:47PM

This may support the reincarnation theory also that I may have lived in a prior life or lives as Swiss German. Present day Amish are a mix of German speaking Swiss or Alsatian.

When I went to Amish country to purchase some gifts for an Israeli cousin several years ago, an Amish farm woman told me that the same German Hebrew prayer books my Jewish ancestors used in their worship in old Germany are the same ones the Amish use today here in America. My book printing ancestors made some of these prayer books and talmuds in Germany. When I told my Israeli cousin this, he was as surprised as I was.

His father was from Switzerland btw. Some of my Jewish relatives did hail from that area of Europe. I don't know who else in my family tree did. Another mystery wrapped in an enigma !

I just spoke to another couple of Mormon cousins of mine last night about another ancestor of ours on my dad's side whose father fought in the Revolutionary War. Her husband was a bodyguard for Joseph Smith, and a close friend of his Uncle (they were closer in age.) Family history can be educational. I was able to detect how my LDS cousins were very careful to not use the word Mormon, but "COJCOLDS" in conversation.

Yes, the times are a 'changin.

They're who I consider to be "good guys" though, not rogues. Which makes me glad to be related to them. :)

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Posted by: Jersey Girl ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 07:04PM

My DNA results were accurate as far as I already knew which areas of Poland and Ireland my grandparents came from. The update I got added a bit of Baltic, but that is not really far from Poland. It looks like my ancestors all stayed around the same rural villages and areas of their countries for centuries until my grandparents came to America. Families who have been in America for many generations had much more opportunity to meet people from all over so there was much more intermixing. My parents married out of their national ethnic groups, I married out of my religious ethnic group, one of my sons is in a mixed race marriage. My little grandson is Polish, Irish, Jewish, Chinese Japanese, and bit of Native Hawaiian. Many of my friends have similar family patterns. It is all good.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 07:45PM

What company did you go with, Jersey Girl?

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 07:32PM

What brought them to retesting your sample, I wonder, Amyjo? It seems like you pay once, they test once, end of, no?

As for that reincarnation thing, I have no clue. But does your DNA stay the same? Change up? Mix up? Could get tres confusing, non? :)

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 09:07PM

The reincarnation is just speculation based on life experiences.

The DNA re-calculation according to 23 and me is because according to the company it has gotten more precise since I submitted my sample two years ago. It still changed up the results nonetheless by quite a bit IMO.

Same test. Same DNA. More concise results.

So they say. :)

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 04:22AM

Did "23 and Me" get more money out of you, for the second analysis?

What do your relatives tell you? I would go by that. Or, just latch onto whatever race you choose. I'm from the British Isles, but have no idea just what percentage is English, Scotch, Irish, and Welch. My cultural heritage is "English", and we have tea in the afternoon, read classic English authors, and enjoy British movies and TV shows. That's how deep it goes, LOL. Here in America, my bloodlines have no relevance to my life.

My children are 1/4 Danish, and they like Ikea.

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Posted by: Drinkie ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 06:29AM

The "Scotch and Welch" prefer to be known as Scots and Welsh. If there is any Scotch in you, it came out of a bottle. Some Scots won't thank you for calling them British (some will but that's another matter.)

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 18, 2019 09:46AM

exminion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did "23 and Me" get more money out of you, for the
> second analysis?

No, nada. It didn't cost me a cent. I paid for it one time, in 2017 at Mother's Day. The revised findings are based on newer technology and more data derived since two years ago.
>
> What do your relatives tell you? I would go by
> that. Or, just latch onto whatever race you
> choose. I'm from the British Isles, but have no
> idea just what percentage is English, Scotch,
> Irish, and Welch. My cultural heritage is
> "English", and we have tea in the afternoon, read
> classic English authors, and enjoy British movies
> and TV shows. That's how deep it goes, LOL. Here
> in America, my bloodlines have no relevance to my
> life.

That would depend on where *they* came from. Take for example my 86 year old cousin who just mailed me her genealogy booklets she and her husband compiled (both are my cousins, and she and him were 3rd cousins, once removed. They met at a family reunion later in life.) She is 60% British/UK/Irish/Scottish/Welsh, based on her DNA. I was app 30% of the same, before my revised DNA findings came back to say I'm now 18. something %. And then out of the blue I'm all of a sudden 39.4% Swiss! Well, the genealogy books she mailed to me I find my common ancestors with her and her late husband are from Switzerland! So right there is my first *find* of an actual Swiss ancestor from 200 years ago who immigrated to America. But to have 40% of my DNA being Swiss seems like an awful lot still. So I still need to find where it comes from. Now she doesn't have that mixture of Swiss in her DNA. But we have a different mixture of ancestry. So we can't rely on each others genes either.
>
> My children are 1/4 Danish, and they like Ikea.

That's neat. I've loved all things Swiss for a long time. Long before finding out my DNA is mostly Swiss now (pending further revised findings!) I suspect there are other ancestors I have yet to discover. :)

My children are a real hodge podge. I'm probably giving them identity crises with each new find that I share with them. It's been more of self-discovery learning as I go along for me.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 07:50PM

My understanding is that as the number of people who have submitted DNA samples that can be used as references increases, the results get more accurate -- maybe not perfect, but better.

It's interesting that 23 and Me was able to pinpoint Switzerland, given that the country has French, German, and Italian influences and ethnicities.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 24, 2019 09:11PM

Yeah, I know. This is the breakdown of the Swiss connection:

39.4%
Switzerland
Highly Likely Match
Germany
Likely Match
Austria
Not Detected
Belgium
Not Detected
France
Not Detected
Luxembourg
Not Detected
Netherlands
Not Detected

So the Swiss came out on top according to its most recent findings. If that is correct it means my ethnicity is nearly half Swiss. I'm going to reserve judgment pending future changes in its analysis say if it changes it up again in another 2-3 years.

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Posted by: forester ( )
Date: January 25, 2019 12:58AM

Both my brother and I did the Nat Geo genome test and this is what they say:

"Genographic participants are assigned to the two reference populations they most resemble genetically. The significant mixing of peoples over time, however, means that a reference population may only provide the best estimate of an individual’s closest match."

So it's a best estimate only. Doing genealogy research can help make sense of the results or make one question the testing company. In my case, my brother's DNA reference populations are England and Scotland which we know are accurate because we can trace and verify our father's line to England and Scotland as far back as the mid 1700's.

My DNA reference populations are Bulgaria and Denmark. I can trace my mother's grandfather's line back to 1600's Denmark. I have no idea where Bulgaria comes from because I can only trace the mother to daughter mitochondrial DNA to 1838 Grove, New York. Intriguing though it is, I am not going to claim Bulgarian heritage until I can prove it in the records.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: January 25, 2019 02:28AM

became labeled as such.

It's like Elizabeth Warren's test where they used a South American referent as a stand-in for "native American" and then misleadingly referred to a 1% match to that as an indication that Warren had a link (however tenuous) to a North American indigenous heritage.

It's still early days in this area and the charlatanry and fudgery is moving forward much faster than the ability to actually precisely zero in on a person's exact ancestry and origins.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: January 25, 2019 02:20AM

nor reliable.

If you can't be standing with them at every step watching what they're doing, asking questions about their procedures and comparing that to best-practice standards in DNA testing and analysis, chances are you really have no idea what you're getting.

They could be throwing darts at a dart board for all anyone really knows.

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: January 25, 2019 07:39AM

I used 23andMe and it appears to be pretty accurate as far as I'm concerned. It correctly identified my risk for age related macular degeneration, which my mom currently has. It correctly identified my first cousin, which was actually a great relief to me, since one of my sisters once told me she thought I might not be my father's daughter (and the cousin is from my dad's side). And it's correctly identified other traits about me, such as hair and eye color and places I know my family is from.

The only surprise for me has been just how British/Irish I really am. My people apparently did a lot of messing around with people just like them.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 04:25AM

Well, Knotheadusc, in your case, you got a lot out of getting your DNA analyzed. WTG!

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Posted by: Jersey Girl ( )
Date: January 26, 2019 12:49PM

I used both 23 and Me and Ancestry. Their outcomes were similar, I did not pay much attention to slight difference in percentages, it was still roughly half Polish, half Irish with tiny bit of other. As I said, my ancestors apparently did not get around much. My husband got 100% Eastern European Jewish, I guess his ancestors stayed put too, until his grandparents came here. He knows much more science than I do, he says in general the commercial DNA testing is not precisely accurate.

We chose not to do the health predictions from 23 and me, we are already old enough to either have or not have hereditary conditions, and pretty much know parents and grandparents medical history. Plus for me, I am such a worry wart I would be sure I had every condition the predictions said I might get. Not worth it.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: January 26, 2019 12:59PM

Well I'd never shell out hard earned cash for one of those but if someone were to gift me that would be a different matter.

It is tempting to see if they could suss out my gg-grandmother's pure lamanite DNA.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 26, 2019 03:23PM

See if your kids will gift it to you for Father's Day, when Ancestry and 23 and me are running sales promotions.

It would be fun to see what the results wield. Plus, if your kids do their's, then they can compare theirs to yours.

My .1% Native American DNA took a hiatus from the first DNA test to the revised findings. So when I reached out to 23 and me the first thing I wanted to know was how could the DNA change to the point where it lost the .1% DNA in my composition?

The woman made it sound like although it's still present, it may have been drowned out by the other newer findings that they updated my DNA report with. YET, my uncle who had his done around the same time as mine still has the same .1% Native American DNA that mine started with. I honestly don't see how mine could change that much to lose that when his stayed the same. It makes no sense to me. Plus we have a common ancestor who is Native American who lived app 400 years ago, which supports that initial finding on the family tree.

Someone at my place of worship who I shared the results with this morning wonders if 23 and Me made a mistake on my reading and totally goofed it up? How else could it have gone from my having barely any Swiss in my DNA to now 39.4% Swiss as highly likely? I'm baffled because I don't know any Swiss ancestors to speak of in my family tree. Unless they got around more than they let on!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2019 03:24PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: January 26, 2019 07:53PM

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> My .1% Native American DNA took a hiatus from the
> first DNA test to the revised findings. So when I
> reached out to 23 and me the first thing I wanted
> to know was how could the DNA change to the point
> where it lost the .1% DNA in my composition?
>
>
You realize that one-tenth of one percent (one part in one-thousand) is not considered to be statistically significant or reliable, right? It would be very easy for that to be lost or dismissed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2019 07:53PM by scmd1.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 26, 2019 08:14PM

In my first report from 23 and Me I was told that my Native American ancestor lived app 400-600 years ago.

And in fact, it is verifiable on the family tree that said ancestor existed. The point I was making is how can it be there one minute, and gone the next? The DNA marker was still there from the original test that showed up. It just feels like there's some game playing by the genetics company or why would they remove the marker after reporting it in the first place?

I don't mind if 23 and Me "adds" to my report. I do mind when it takes something away that it already verified. Plus the same DNA marker still is showing on my uncle's profile. If they're going to remove mine, then why not his? It is possible that someone made a mistake reading my report or mixed up someone else's report with mine because the 39.4% Swiss is a total anomaly that came out of nowhere on the "revised" findings. I'm trying hard not to be skeptical of 23 and Me. But it's revised findings are tantamount to preposterous. I don't see how it's possible I can be that much Swiss, I really don't. It's flattering if it were true. But I'm skeptical.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: January 27, 2019 05:04PM

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm trying
> hard not to be skeptical of 23 and Me. But it's
> revised findings are tantamount to preposterous. I
> don't see how it's possible I can be that much
> Swiss, I really don't. It's flattering if it were
> true. But I'm skeptical.


I think you're wise to be sketical. There are aspects of DNA analysis that are relatvely reliable. I'm not convinced that the ethnicity extrapolation is among the reliable aspects. It's fine for entertainment value, though.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 06:56PM

I was looking at some photos of my German Jewish Israeli cousin last night who passed on in 2017, and noted that he spent a considerable amount of his youth growing up in Switzerland!

Most of his time was spent in England, but his father was from Switzerland. His dad isn't my DNA relative, but my Israeli cousin is a DNA cousin of mine.

Interesting life he had with his European upbringing before he immigrated to Israel. I'm sure he'd say it was interesting after he immigrated to Israel also. That is where his family resides today.

He was born in 1940, and somehow escaped the war. His dad was a Swiss national, that may be why and how he was able to. Hmm. But for the fact he was born in England.

That is the only Swiss relative I've been able to find thus far in my family tree.

I'll keep looking on the Wayback Machine. Perhaps there are other kindred spirits I just don't know about yet. And I don't mean the Mormon kind! I have enough of them already. Maybe some of my Mormon ancestors came from Switzerland, but I haven't been able to find any so far.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 10:22PM

Amyjo:

There is much information available now on why different results (some of them significant) come up on different DNA tests (or from the same test, taken and retaken at different times....or between close relatives, including--if I am remembering correctly--at least one set of identical twins).

Go to Google, and to YouTube, and search for: "reasons for conflicting DNA test results."

We are, evidently, still very much in the initial stages of accurately interpreting what the DNA material sent for examination actually "says."

Whatever your DNA results appear to be on any particular DNA submission can possibly vary substantially from follow-up DNA submission(s)....and in addition, the specific metrics used to determine "what" means "what" are in active fluid motion right now.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2019 11:08PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 11:27PM

Thanks, Tevai, I'll explore that.

It is very striking the differences between the one company I paid for my DNA findings, and the one that was uploaded for free. Both came back with different findings. And that doesn't include the revised findings of the paid for one. And then with future revised findings, well it leaves room for more surprises!

My uncle's wasn't revised, which I found odd. Only mine was. I wondered why but oh well, I'll save it for another day. He has no Swiss in his DNA make-up. Which is a relief to me since it's one less thing we have in common. (He's the con artist on my mother's side with some Ashkenazi. But he belongs in jail.)

After my Israeli cousin died I paid for a five-year premium membership so his daughter and widow could continue using his genealogy website as a mitzvah. His daughter was so happy when she found out I had done that, because she was planning to do a presentation of her father's work from his genealogy and didn't have access to his mini-biographies and was relying on other sources that weren't as comprehensive as her father's site was. I just felt compelled to do it after he died because of all he'd done to build up his family history and didn't want to see it lost.

She was thus able to access it to help prepare her presentation on her father's life and his work. So I was happy about that. ETA: It's the same type of membership her father used to subscribe to while he was alive. So this way she can have the same ease of access to his records as she maintains them as his now manager. She keeps things updated now that she's able. I didn't know that when I renewed it. We sort of surprised each other when she found out what I'd done lol, (in a good way.)

Maybe he bestowed some of his Swiss DNA from the "Stardust" from the heavenlies as a thank you, and it floated down my way and settled into my marrow a little here and there. (jkz) I'll gladly take some Swiss any day of the week. I've always loved and admired the Swiss. :)

I'm actually very happy to learn that I have some Swiss in my DNA makeup. I would never have guessed that in a million years.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2019 05:05PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 10:42AM

Here, Tevai, is one such report I was able to find that somewhat answers the question of different findings per different readings of the same results as they become narrowed down and (maybe or maybe not,) more focused:

"DNA Landmarks

These companies use what is called reference DNA to figure out where your DNA came from. This reference DNA is the DNA of people whose families have stayed in a part of the world for a long time. Or who have very detailed family trees.

The companies then compare your DNA to the DNA landmarks they found in these families. The parts that match that group of Germans is German, the parts that match that group of people from the British Isles is English and so on.

Sounds easy enough but most people are not like the reference group. They have lots of different ancestral DNA scattered in chunks throughout their DNA. This is where things can get tricky.

To get around this mixed DNA, the computer program analyzes small sections of the DNA at a time. These “windows” have around 100 or so DNA markers in them which translates to thousands of such windows."

https://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/same-dna-different-ancestry-results

And then this:

"Here’s something else that’s important to remember: Ancestry DNA tests don’t tell you where each member on your family tree lived. Instead, they tell you how much of their DNA you’ve inherited.

That’s why siblings can get different reports from DNA ancestry services (even though they share the exact same relatives). “It’s possible that your brother might have inherited a piece of DNA from one of your ancestors that you did not,” Pickrell says....

As you move further and further back in time on your family tree, “there’s some possibility that you’ve inherited no DNA from one of your ancestors,” Pickrell says. Does that mean you’re not related to that person? No. Does that mean you’re barred from making pierogis with their time-worn recipe? Of course not. They’re still a part of your family tree, and a part of your heritage.

DNA is not the same as heritage. DNA ancestry tests sort your DNA by the geographic regions you likely inherited it from. But not everything about our family histories is geographic.

These tests don’t tell us about the languages our ancestors spoke, the food they ate, or whether they were celebrated or persecuted. They don’t say much about how our ancestors lived or traveled." (All I know about the Swiss (if it is even accurate) ancestry is that they lived within the past 200 years. Not whether or when they may have immigrated or whom they may have married.)

It sure does get intriguing though.

That's why many people get hooked on genealogy later in life. It used to bore me to tears when I was a child. Not any more. Now there isn't enough time in the day to make new discoveries or find new connections.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/1/28/18194560/ancestry-dna-23-me-myheritage-science-explainer

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Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 11:51PM

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/carl-lutz
This is a nice story on Carl Lutz; I never heard of him until a few years ago when I was building up my collection of books on the Holocaust

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 10:52AM

He is one of the few who was willing to stand in the gap for the Jews of the Holocaust. That has to take a lot of courage to do what he did.

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Posted by: normdeplume ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 12:36AM

Some contributor said:

"His wife had no interest in it, so he spit in the two separate vials and mailed them with bogus names. The two samples were far from identical".

So much for another "scientifical" scam.

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Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 06:24AM


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Posted by: Jimbo ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 07:11PM

23 and me = scam . I don't really care what my ancestery is and I know most of it anyway given Mormon fixation on genealogy . I am 100 % American . Born here . lived most of my life in the USA . I get a kick out of Americans saying things like " I'm Scottish" when it was,great great grandma was was born in Scotland .

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 09:11PM

I'm a mixture of Scottish, Irish, Welsh, and English that I know of. And now from doing my DNA I've found I'm actually more Western European than I am UK. It's all good though. I'm cool with it. My mom used to call us Heinz 57.

I think she got that right. :)

Mom was our in-house genealogist from age ten on. That was years before she converted to Mormonism. She was researching her ancestry before it became a "thing". Her parents were both orphans. Mom didn't have any relatives growing up. So it was important to her to find them. And she did find quite a few.

Only most of them were deceased. But she found a few living relatives along the way. And then adopted some friends to be aunts & uncles, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2019 09:14PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 16, 2019 05:18PM

Today I received in the mail extracts from the book compiled by my late relative who wasn't a Mormon but descended from Mormons (the retired engineer,) from his 86-year old LDS wife, who is also my cousin. They are third cousins themselves, once removed. They met at a family reunion later in life.

Oh my golly.

She told me that I was mentioned in both hers and her husband's booklets that she sent to me.

As I've been starting to read through them, what I found most astonishing is my ancestors through that line, lo and behold, are from (DRUMROLL:) SWITZERLAND!!!!!

And there is a SWISS connection I had been MISSING up until now.

A very strong Swiss connection per 23 and Me. Well I'll be.

Genealogy is the gift that keeps on giving even after our relatives have gone. My, oh my.

These are my American Revolutionary War patriot ancestors btw. Who would've guessed? These ones weren't from the UK after all.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: May 16, 2019 05:31PM

Many dispute the accuracy of these DNA tests, but it sure beats the patriarchal blessing, which is entirely fictional.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 16, 2019 05:46PM

For me it involves filling in the missing puzzle pieces because the cultural and geographic backgrounds of including my Mormon ancestors are not always as commonplace as one would think they are just because they were early colonizers to the United States.

Most of my parents genealogy reflects the UK on their charts going on the Wayback Machine. My Ashkenazi ancestors didn't migrate to America until the middle of the 19th century.

The Swiss isn't highlighted much if at all. Finding it is like looking for a needle in a haystack kind of a thing, until now as the genealogy begins to fill in some of the missing blanks.

As does the DNA piechart. It's kind of like piece meal work, like quilting pieces together to make a whole.

Today was an exciting find though. I just sent my cousin a heartfelt thank you letting her know how much her doing that for me meant. Not just sending the information itself, but the kindness it took for her to do it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2019 05:53PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 16, 2019 07:27PM

Based on the genealogy my cousin sent me in the mail today I've narrowed down that my Swiss DNA comes from the Canton of Bern.

By the end of 2002 there was a documented study done by the Oxford Ancestors in England of the direct descendants of one of my ancestors. Nine of his direct descendants were tested for their Y DNA line signatures tracing them back to that ancestor and to scientifically prove the ancestry of people bearing the surname/s ranging in variations of spellings going back to the same distant relative.

[At least some of my] Swiss forebears came from Bern, Switzerland! I now know their names and when they immigrated here.

Maybe the Bernese Mountain dog holds more than a passing attraction for me after all. Not that I plan on owning one. But they are fetching dogs. :)

So when I go visit Switzerland, I shall pay a visit to Bern. There's a train that travels through Bern, and I hope to be on it. Probably after I retire. There are no shortcuts to seeing Switzerland.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2019 09:59PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 18, 2019 10:00AM

There's a lovely little place I had been dreaming about visiting for many years while working nights at the Treasury Department (instead of "daydreaming," it was "nightdreaming." I saved a pic of the waterfalls to my desktop screensaver.) It is one of Switzerland's most beautiful places to visit if you should ever get to travel there.

It is called "Giessbach Falls." It's nestled by a mountainside lake in the Canton of Bern known as Lake Brienz.

It's a magical place, the hotel looks like a miniature castle at the base of the waterfalls. It's one of Switzerland's historic 19th century hotels. With the narrow waterfalls flowing down from a tall peak as seen through the picturesque windows outside, it looks like a view from paradise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxL85u_85Eg

https://www.giessbach.ch/files/img/2016_06_22__MG_7834.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2019 10:47AM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: May 18, 2019 12:15PM

We did the 23 and Me 1 1/2 years ago and I'm still waiting for them to put some correct information in my findings. On my father's side, beginning with my GG grandfather and going back many generations, they are from the Netherlands and yet, 23 doesn't even give that an honorable mention. On my mother's side, beginning in 1650,I'm directly descended from an Eastern Woodlands Indian tribe and the 23 and Me says that no Native American DNA has been detected in my sample. I wonder why neither of these has been detected?

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 18, 2019 03:42PM

Valkieriequeen,

Look at Tevai's post from here, and a couple of posts down later I added two articles about why there might be differences on our DNA findings. Maybe that might help?

I wouldn't know either, other than they do differ from one company to the next somewhat.

Although 23 and Me did tell me they stand behind their findings, and that they have gotten more precise in the past couple of years, and expect to continue to do so as more data emerges from their DNA findings. Since you and me went with that company they told me to expect more revised findings in the coming years as their data becomes more precise.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2194228,2223497#msg-2223497

I had a similar discrepancy with an Indian ancestor also that is documented on my genealogy from both sides of my parents. 23 and Me gave it to me in my initial DNA analysis, said I was .1% Native American. My maternal uncle did the same DNA test as me and his has the same results as mine with the .1% Native American. But with my revision they took it away. His is still there. The supervisor at 23 and Me said that doesn't mean my ancestor's DNA isn't still in the mixture, only it may have become so diluted by the newer swiss finding that it no longer has as much bearing. The Swiss kind of clouded everything else I had been told from before. I had no Swiss in the initial finding. Then it shot up to 39.4% Swiss. Go figure. The Swiss relatives/ancestors I just discovered aren't on my uncle's side. They're from my dad's. And that study I mentioned in a post earlier this week was done in 2002 of one of my direct Swiss ancestors who lived 200 years ago, for a DNA study out of Oxford, England. So now I'm wondering whether 23 and Me matched me up with that study?! because I'm one of his descendants as well and that consists of a rather large group of his descendants from which they may have made their "match" from.

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